Before there were antibiotics ....

It is widely known that the length of time humans are living is increasing.

This is due to scientific research in the fields of medicine and diet I would say.

For someone not to take an antibiotic is their choice of course, but if it might help you get better, then it's worth a try....especially when a doctor is on the ground, prescribing and seeing the results of a particular treatment every day.

As the husband of a theater nurse, and who worked in an ICU for 3 years I got to see for myself, and constantly hear from my wife about illnesses that go unchecked, or ignored and then escalate.

The news and shows like ACA would have it that there are loads of shonky docs out there (there are some less than expert ones for sure), but I woulds wager for the most part that they help folks live longer and healthier.

I reckon it would be very frustrating for a doc to recommend a treatment to a patient - who then ignores all their advice...

"MR. Jones; you need to lose weight and cut down your smoking or you are in a high risk of a heart attack or stroke"

"I will, Doc"

(Mr.Jones smokes 20 a day, is 45 years old and has smoked 20 a day since 13 years old, and is 175 mm and 100kg's)

And so on.

I saw lots of Mr. Jones in the ICU who ended up losing a leg due to lack of circulation in their foot - due to above lifestyle and failure to heed advice from the good Doc..

Improvements in Civil engineering in the area of sewerage / water supply had a fair bit to do with the the increase in life expectancy.

In terms of people ignoring advice , that's very common , almost par for the course in particular when getting people to make changes towards a more healthy life style . I've had several patients die as a result of not following though with referrals for things like positive bowel cancer screening tests etc.

Cliff
 
I've had several patients die as a result of not following though with referrals for things like positive bowel cancer screening tests etc.
Were they all elderly people who decided that intervention was pointless at their advanced stage in life? That can be a reasonable decision if you're over 80.

Please tell me you don't get young people deciding to just "let it go"!
 
Aren't you are doctor?Yet your unsure of antibiotics are an issue in terms of weakening the bodies immune system?
p

Are you serious ? To prove something like that would be incredibly complex and to the best of my knowledge there is no credible evidence to support that view.

The rest of what you quote is anetcdotal .

I'll give you my own anecdotal example to " proove " the opposite . I often see patients with what is called Wheezy Bronchitis . ( Whether it's Wheezy Bronchitis or a Chest infection triggering asthma is debateable , but that's not my point ) .

The patients present with a recurring / persistent cough . Treatment , if it's bad enough , a longer course of Antibiotics and ...:eek: oh my gosh , Steroids ...:eek: , but that's the devils spawn , it suppresses the immune system ... that can't be good ....can it ??

Actually , it settles the ongoing cycle of infection and inflammation that has been going on and give the lungs a change to recover , heal back to normal and be in a better position to fight the next infection that comes along. Well that's been my adenecdotal observation that I make every week .

Cliff
 
Were they all elderly people who decided that intervention was pointless at their advanced stage in life? That can be a reasonable decision if you're over 80.

Please tell me you don't get young people deciding to just "let it go"!

Elderly people deciding they don't want further investigations , treatment ? Unfortunately no ... That's quite common

I'm talking about young ( 40-60 ) year olds who are otherwise fit , active and have a normal quality of life. The saddest one was a single parent of a teenage child. After several unsuccessful attempts to get them to follow through with a referral I rang up a local specialist who happened to be in Cas at the time . I explained the situation and the patient went straight to Cas and was seen by the specialist , He wanted to admit them straight away but the patient said he was too busy and didn't follow through.

I'm not sure if they are letting go . I think they are just putting their heads in the sand thinking they are invincible .

Cliff
 
That is heart-breaking, Cliff. Huge props to you - and all medicos - for having the emotional strength to keep going after seeing this kind of thing. :)
 
I'm not sure if antibiotics are an issue in terms of weakening the bodies immune system , but I certainly subscribe to the theory that we live in an environment that's too clean , so our immune system doesn't get a proper work out .

One of the growing areas of illness is what we refer to as auto immune disease , where the body is attacking itself . Possibly because it doesn't have as much real work to do due to our clean environment . On an individual basis we are only occasionally exposed to antibiotics but live in our environment , so the levels of exposure aren't comparable .

Btw , antibiotics are for bacteria , not viruses .

Cliff

How interesting see_change.
My son has suffered from proctitis for a number of years with treatment to date proving to be of little help.
He is extremely fit,eats healthily,does not smoke and drinks alcohol very moderately.
One of the few times that he went into remission was on a blow out trip to Bali with his mates where for once he done all the wrong things!
Are there any strides being made around the world in combating auto immune disease which appear to be growing at an alarming rate?
 
We live in a very sheltered environment in Australia . Northern beaches of sydney would have to be one of the most blessed places on this planet ( assuming you want to live in a city ) . Nowadays too many people take their health for granted .

One of my pet frustrations is a reluctance to take antibiotics . Fine they can be over prescribed by some , but ....they're not the evil that it's becoming trendy to portray them as .

Today I had a patient with a badly infected middle toe . Nasty blister on the tip , with most of the toe red , tender and swollen , early cellulitis . Needs antibiotics . But when I suggest this , she baulks ..... No ..... not antibiotics !!! . She then says " what happened before antibiotics ?

" ah ... Before antibiotics , well the risk you ran was the infection would go into your foot , up your leg , into your blood stream , you develop septicaemia , septic shock , then you die ...

I assured her that it didn't happen all the time , but there was a reason ( outside lack of effective birth control ) which Victorian families had 8 kids and three survived to adult hood ....

I gave her a script of antibiotics . I wonder if she'll take them .

.... end rant ....:confused:

Cliff

Having seen Mr Westminster go from a scratch on his leg to extremely ill in hospital due to systemic cellulitus I hope she does take the antibiotics. It can get nasty very quickly.
He complained of pain in the morning and I saw the red trail heading north and arranged a GP appointment. By the time the GP saw him at 11 he was ready for an ambulance to hospital.

Antibiotics are not evil but should be saved for when needed - ie not a cold. You have to trust your GP and know when to take them.
 
How interesting see_change.
My son has suffered from proctitis for a number of years with treatment to date proving to be of little help.
He is extremely fit,eats healthily,does not smoke and drinks alcohol very moderately.
One of the few times that he went into remission was on a blow out trip to Bali with his mates where for once he done all the wrong things!
Are there any strides being made around the world in combating auto immune disease which appear to be growing at an alarming rate?

There were some suggestions a while ago that inflammatory bowel disease could be treated with worms ... But haven't heard anything recently ...

Cliff
 
There were some suggestions a while ago that inflammatory bowel disease could be treated with worms ... But haven't heard anything recently ...

Cliff

Thank you for your reply Cliff.Hopefully there is major research being undertaken as so little seems to be known about this group of "modern" diseases'.
 
There were some suggestions a while ago that inflammatory bowel disease could be treated with worms ... But haven't heard anything recently ...

Cliff

I saw that too and it was a very interesting concept.

When you consider our bodies evolved over 100's of thousands of years, in conjunction with a myriad of parasites, it makes sense that the immune system also evolved in a way to keep these parasites under control.

Now, in the western world, we have removed these parasites and the specialist sections of the immune system now have nothing to do ... hence ... very feasible that it turns it's attention elsewhere.

Food allergies, and even asthma, was very rare when I was a wee titch (40 years ago) ... but apparently 1 in 5 now has a serious allergy problem.

As for "doing the right" health thing - I think it helps if a bloke has a wife behind him who nags. It took me a year of nagging for hubby to open his bowel cancer test kit - and when he had a sudden brown growth on the side of his nose it took months of hounding, and me booking the appointment, for him to go and have it checked out and removed.
 
Food allergies, and even asthma, was very rare when I was a wee titch (40 years ago) ... but apparently 1 in 5 now has a serious allergy problem.

I think part of the increase in incidence is due to better diagnosis . Myself as an example . I can remember that long ago ..

Running in something like an 800 m race at school I'd be ok after 200 m but then gradually drop back . I was " unfit ". Fast forward 20 years and I'm showing a patient how to use a peak flow meter and instead of blowing 600 I blew 450 . I used a ventolin puffer and I was blowing 600... Oh ....:( I'm asthmatic :mad: .

Most weeks I'll see someone who is wheezing but hasn't previously been " diagnosed " with asthma .

Food allergies . No one was looking . There are numerous tests that weren't thought about . Personally I'm a bit sceptical about some of the diagnosis . I've seen numerous people who tell me they are coeliac or have a food allergy and when I check their past results they don't show that .

Recently there has been a change in the testing of faecal samples ( it seems to pick up more positive results ) and I've had several people who have come in saying they have Irritable Bowel Syndrome or coeliac , but testing shows they actually have a pathogen and they get better when treated with .....antibiotics

Cliff
 
Vaccination do not cause austism.

It annoys me that some parents choose not to vaccinate their children because of this stupid fear. These kids came to school without being vaccinated and when they do get sick, some vaccinated children get sick too. My youngest child is asthmatic and gets really sick with whatever bugs that go around and always end up taking antibiotics (after being sick for over a week without medication).
There has been lots of ads about not taking antibiotics for colds. I think it was just a way government want to cut budget on PBS.
I grew up in 3rd world country and was a sick child. I took lots of antiiobics when I was growing up. But as an adult, I hardly get sick.
 
I think part of the increase in incidence is due to better diagnosis . Myself as an example . I can remember that long ago ..

Running in something like an 800 m race at school I'd be ok after 200 m but then gradually drop back . I was " unfit ". Fast forward 20 years and I'm showing a patient how to use a peak flow meter and instead of blowing 600 I blew 450 . I used a ventolin puffer and I was blowing 600... Oh ....:( I'm asthmatic :mad: .

Most weeks I'll see someone who is wheezing but hasn't previously been " diagnosed " with asthma .

Food allergies . No one was looking . There are numerous tests that weren't thought about . Personally I'm a bit sceptical about some of the diagnosis . I've seen numerous people who tell me they are coeliac or have a food allergy and when I check their past results they don't show that .

Recently there has been a change in the testing of faecal samples ( it seems to pick up more positive results ) and I've had several people who have come in saying they have Irritable Bowel Syndrome or coeliac , but testing shows they actually have a pathogen and they get better when treated with .....antibiotics

Cliff


If I remember correctly, there was/were Australian doctors who won nobel price for finding reason of stomach ulcer? Antibiotic was the cure. Simple.

A paed subscribed ritalin for dyslexia....
 
There is a huge volume of medical research going on into all sorts of diseases, the vast majority of which is done in universities, hospitals, and research institutes, and has zero funding from private sources.

If you think academics - most of whom are on contracts that don't allow them to benefit financially from their discoveries anyway - would pass up the chance for a Nobel Prize by suppressing a finding that hemp oil can cure cancer (or whatever), then I would suspect you don't know many academics. :rolleyes:

They're all about the excitement of solving the problem; money is - for the vast majority - of no concern, or barely registers.

...seriously?

My sister is a researcher at various universities and some of her stuff has won awards. Believe me, they do care about the money. If anything it is all MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY. NEED FUNDING! ANYTHING FOR FUNDING!
 
...seriously?

My sister is a researcher at various universities and some of her stuff has won awards. Believe me, they do care about the money. If anything it is all MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY. NEED FUNDING! ANYTHING FOR FUNDING!
Money for their research, for sure. I was responding to the suggestion that seems to lie behind so many conspiracy theories, which is that scientists would say anything when paid by pharmaceutical companies.

All the scientists I know - and I know quite a lot - just want funding to pursue their academic interests, which are dictated by what they think are promising lines of research. They aren't individually motivated by more money, in terms of wanting to get higher salaries for themselves.
 
There were some suggestions a while ago that inflammatory bowel disease could be treated with worms ... But haven't heard anything recently ...

Cliff

I have even heard of faecal transplants for auto-immune diseases; in circumstances where antibiotics are over-used or don't work; and for other diseases. Apparently they put the donor's poop up your bottom.
 
I have even heard of faecal transplants for auto-immune diseases; in circumstances where antibiotics are over-used or don't work; and for other diseases. Apparently they put the donor's poop up your bottom.

There is a gastroenterologist in sydney doing that . Depending on who you talking too he's either a visionary / cutting edge etc or full of sh.......

One of my colleagues who's into alternative therapies sends patients to him .

Cliff
 
There is a gastroenterologist in sydney doing that . Depending on who you talking too he's either a visionary / cutting edge etc or full of sh.......

One of my colleagues who's into alternative therapies sends patients to him .

Cliff

While the idea is pretty disgusting, down the track it might be a perfectly acceptable way of dealing with illnesses. Hey, if it works and if it alleviates someone's suffering, I am all for it.
 
Did anyone watch Catalyst


GUT REACTION PT 1



GUT REACTION PT 2


NARRATION
Food - it's a wonderful thing, yet an everyday thing. Who would have thought new discoveries about food would be getting scientists so excited?

Professor Charles Mackay
I think this is one of the biggest developments in medical research.

Professor Rob Knight
I think there's a tremendous amount of potential there.

Professor Charles Mackay
I really think we're encountering a revolution. Maybe we can prevent diseases by simply changing our diet.

NARRATION
The remarkable new discoveries are telling us that our current eating habits could be making us sick. Very sick. Indeed, our food might be contributing to heart disease, cancer, asthma, allergies, arthritis, autism, depression, multiple sclerosis, diabetes - the list goes on.

Dr Graham Phillips
Now, we've been hearing for years how we should be eating healthy food. But this research is different. It's all about the bacteria that live in our intestines. Eat good food, you end up with good bacteria. Eat badly and you get bad bacteria in your gut. Now, it turns out your gut bugs have an enormous influence on your health.

Professor Charles Mackay
I think you can extend your life span by years, if not decades, with a healthy diet. And all the evidence is pointing to that.

NARRATION
In a two-part Catalyst special, we search out the experts in this emerging new field of medicine. The gut bacteria story starts at the beginning of life.
Cont...
 
I know I keep putting this up but this guy has been onto this stuff for ages.

We are not hardwired for processed food, grains & sugar on mass.

We are hardwired for meat and colourful leafy veges, a few nuts, yams, and berries and some fruit.

Not mobs and mobs of grain based products that you put sugar on to make it taste nice.

have a good look at the above link and go in with open mind.

Forget buying anything from him, you dont need it as most info is there for free in the forums and in the daily blog.

TC wont like it as he produces grains but they are killing us.

Sorry mate, but I feel a way lot better when I leave out the grain based products and stick with fresh meat and veg/salad.
 
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