Boat Building thread

Are your boats made out of fibreglass? Or do you make them out of wood and then fibreglass over the top of them? Or are they soley made out of wood? Also (and this may seem to a dumb question) what is the difference between a powered catamaran and a powered boat like a Mustang? Also do the majority of powered catamarans have outboard or inboard motors?

Great pictures by the way :)

Kate
 
This is just beautiful, you realise you have a hefty percentage of somersoft people sailing with you, that's what it feels like; sailing right along....exploring and enjoying the adventures of the two headed love child!

Pictures are simply heaven.
 
Ok...that was abit of a dumb question because a catamaran has two hulls and a Mustang Cruiser etc is a single hull. Curious do you Boatman prefer catamarans and if so why?

Kate
 
Ok...that was abit of a dumb question because a catamaran has two hulls and a Mustang Cruiser etc is a single hull. Curious do you Boatman prefer catamarans and if so why?

Kate
The big plus: They're faster and roomier

The big minus: They are not self righting.

The reason I came here: This may be the new solar cell technology which could change the world, and power your boat. :)

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/flat/bown/2007/green/item_59.html
 
Another big plus is that they are more comfortable. They tend to remain level when a normal sailboat is heeled over as it is making way. This makes sleeping, cooking etc more difficult.

I would love a cat myself with those big expanses of deck for my cocktail parties.....
 
The big plus: They're faster and roomier]

And generaly require less HP for same speed meaning better economy.

They also require less water to float (generally) and remain level at anchor and underway, so less spilt drinks and happier crew.


The big minus: They are not self righting.]

But they do remain affloat.

Can you provide an example, ANY example of a sizable 35ft plus cruising POWER cat that has capsized?

I can provide plenty of MONO hull powered vessel examples of broach, roll and sink .

Dave
 
G'day boat boy


Did you consider Aluminum hulls? Adv Disadv?

Barney

Alby Mangels

Had a sail with him once when he was looking at getting a fast sailing cat built in Brisbane by a mate of mine, but he wanted to swap some next to usless land for a boat, so it never eventuated.



Alloy boats.

I did my apprenticeship building Alloy boats at LLoyds Ships in Brisbane like these.

http://www.kokomo.com.au/Supercruiser123ft/tabid/63/Default.aspx

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...m=3&obp=true&luom=126&currencyid=100&cit=true

but Alloy is not really any good for sailing catamarans as it is really too heavy. When they get to about 45 ft it starts to get feasable, but I still prefered composite as it has positive bouyancy (light timber and foam floats, Alloy sinks) and if I need to do a repair in a remote area, I can do it with limited to no electricity as I can use handsaw and sandpaper and some epoxy and glass.

Alloy needs heaps of electricity to run saws, planers, grinders and a MIG welder with a specialised operator.

Alloy also has a big problem with dissimilar metals and electrolysis.

If I did my current build from alloy, I would need more than twice the HP for the same speed.

Dave
 
Are your boats made out of fibreglass? Or do you make them out of wood and then fibreglass over the top of them? Or are they soley made out of wood? Also (and this may seem to a dumb question) what is the difference between a powered catamaran and a powered boat like a Mustang? Also do the majority of powered catamarans have outboard or inboard motors?

Great pictures by the way :)

Kate

A bit of general info and a Quick boatbuilding lesson regarding Catamarans.

Catamarans (and other Multi-hulls) have an efficient hull shape requiring less force to move them through the water be it sail or motor.

They usually float in less water and are much more stable, allowing them to enter creeks and lagoons like in my above Fairfax pics (800mm over reef at high tide)

The downside is their performance is affected by weight be it building materials or cruising gear, so a trade off is required.

A relatively cheap build using say, solid fiberglass will not perform as well as or carry the same cruising payload as the same vessel built from foam sandwich (Stuctural Foam with a thin Fiberglass skin on either side) as the solid glass will need to be very thick and heavy to achieve the same panel stiffness as the foam structure.

http://www.diabgroup.com/europe/concept/e_concept_3.html#

To save even more weight, the thin fiberglass skin on the foam can be replaced with Kevlar, Carbon Fiber and other more exotic materials, but of course these materials are very expensive

Due to cost constraints, some replace the foam with a light timber core such as Balsa, Western Red Cedar (Love Child) or Kiri, which I am using on the new build.

Because the core is stiffer and has better impact resistance than Foam, an even thinner outer fiberglass skin can be used to achieve the same panel stiffness and strength as the foam panel, so while the timber core is heavier, (H80 Foam is 80 kg/m3 compared to Kiri at 260 kg/m3, Western Red Cedar at 380 kg/m3 and Balsa at 150kg/m3) I can use less fiberglass and epoxy resin, so the weights get fairly close to each other.

Dollar wise in Material cost, the timber cored is far more affordable, as an example, Love Child at 30 ft cost about $25,000 in cedar, epoxy and fiberglass (material only) compared to $50,000 in Foam epoxy and fiberglass (material only).

On the new one I will have a boat in the water finished for less than the cost of material of a Foam vessel.

BUT, if paying for labour, it is faster (arguably) to build with foam, so the labour VS material cost equation needs to be figured out as well.


Outboard motors, yes smaller POWER cats can have outboards, but I think 11 metres would be about the maximum practical size and it would need to be a very efficient design like these from Schionning Design

http://www.schionningdesigns.com.au/www/page.cfm?pageID=195
http://www.schionningdesigns.com.au/www/page.cfm?pageID=360

or these from Ron Given

http://www.givencats.com/q_getboataspect.cfm?id=11
http://www.givencats.com/q_getboataspect.cfm?id=12

These would usually also be custom builds, they are not a production boat as such like Mustang.

Dave
 
Found a nice site that has kept me entertained most of the day.

This will give you all a bit of an idea as to the attraction to some of the areas that we intend cruising

http://www.nomadsportfishing.com.au/nsa_locations_main.htm

We started buying in Rockhampton as it is fairly close to a lot of these places, especially Shoalwater Bay, Wreck, Kenn, Frederick and Bugatti reef (excelent Video Footage) http://www.nomadsportfishing.com.au/nsa_locations/nsa_locations_bugattireefs.htm

This whole site has brilliant footage and images of the area.

Dave
 
Boatboy,

I owe you a thank you and a beer sometime.

I have been long interested in sailing having done some offshore crewing in my youth as well as owning a trailer sailer recently. I sold that boat due to my family's lack of interest and have regretted that decision since.

So I have been following this thread avidly. Last week I stayed with a mate who has an amazing perspective on success he has inspired me to think big and that the only thing stopping me from doing what I like is myself. I always knew that but to see him living it has been a good wakeup call.

So after reading your stuff and visiting my mate I decided I would own a decent boat by next summer. In the meantime I will be learning and training to fill my experience and knowledge gaps. So just last Friday after returning from visiting my mate I rang the local yacht club to enquire about practical courses. My previous experience hasn't included formal courses so they were unsure where I fitted in - clearly a intro course would bore me but many of my skills were self taught and no doubt include bad habits. So they invited me to join in a race that evening on the training boat which I did. When I arrived the two other students were all excited as the previous week they had finished 8th in a field of 30+ which was a record for this old boat with sticky taped headsail and more than one large hole in that sail where there shouldn't have been holes.

It was great to be back on a boat and I fitted in well with the crew. We had a good start, caught some nice winds and to cut an exciting story short we won the race. Had a few drinks afterwards and enjoyed it all immensely. Made instant friends. Met the Vice Commodore of the club who listened to my story about wanting to get some experience before buying a decent boat and he immediately invited me to join a crew being put together to move a top notch boat from Rocky down to Newcastle. Of course I agreed immediately but had to then head home to look after my kids and I suspect the others were settling in for the night.

Thinking that the offer was well meant after a few beers but not too serious I thought little would happen but this morning I got the call to say we were flying up this Friday and spending the week sailing down the Queensland Coast including side trips to all the exotic island names that I have read about but never visited. So I am very excited now about this opportunity that landed on my lap the day I decided to take some action.

Maybe the universe came through for me .....

I will take my camera along and get some pics and maybe write something down to share with you guys.

Thanks Boatboy for helping spark me off to get off my **** and do something.
 
That's great Simon, glad you are getting something from it and doing something.

You should enjoy that ride south, even though you'll more than likely have a fair bit on the nose.(you get that)

Flying up to Rocky you say?

I happen to be here at the moment and will be for a while.

If there is anything I can do to help send me a PM.

I have a Mitsubishi van at my disposal ATM (while the Valiant gets an engine rebuild) lent to me by the publisher of the rag attached to my signature, so if needed, I know my way around up here pretty well.

And yes, I like beer. (-;

Dave
 
I have been long interested in sailing having done some offshore crewing in my youth as well as owning a trailer sailer recently. I sold that boat due to my family's lack of interest and have regretted that decision since.
I heard that there are 2 good days when buying a boat- the day you buy & the day you sell.

Your post changes that BB... Kudos to you.
Steve
 
Caught up with Simon and the crew of "Cab Sav" down at Yeppoon and had a feed and a few sherberts back on the boat.

An enjoyable evening.

Next day they had another crew member turn up at the airport so I met them there and dove their hire car to the Marina, saw them of and dropped the car back at the airport for them.

Should be a good trip, absolutely glorious day, but may be doing a bit of motoring due to a wind shortage.

A perfect time to get out to the reef and as usual, I was amazed at all the perfectly good boats not going anywhere at the marina.(90%+)

What else could these people possibly have to do that was more important than enjoying paradise on the perfect day?

Poor thing's, some people just don't deserve to have boats.

Dave
 
A perfect time to get out to the reef and as usual, I was amazed at all the perfectly good boats not going anywhere at the marina.(90%+)

What else could these people possibly have to do that was more important than enjoying paradise on the perfect day?

Poor thing's, some people just don't deserve to have boats.

Dave
Dave,

I agree completely. I had dinner on Sunday at the Newport Arms with my parents and looked out over all the boats in their moorings in Pittwater and lamented the fact that they were so wasted! I also am completely envious of yours and Bloss' dream to escape to Malaysia on your dream yacht. That sounds like heaven to me.

Ah well. I'm not too far away from having that option myself. Just need to finish Mona Vale then wait for the Sydney's northern beaches to have a little lift in prices and I'm free. That's it. Not too much really. But until then, I get by sailing on the DK43 out of middle harbour on the weekends and Thursday twilights. That's a million dollar boat that doesn't spend too much time at her mooring. ;)

Only a week and a bit until my three week Christmas break and this wage slave will have a little respite. Not free by any means, but its a necessary evil for now.

Cheers,
Michael.
 
More later

Dave

Contunuing on from New Cal

As we had no real Joy with ice at Isle de pines with Ice, we decided we had to run back to Noumea (stopping at a few spots inbetween).

As we came out of the Havana Pass at the bottom of Grand' Terre (the main Island) we encountered strong winds going in an opposite direction to the tide making large steep waves, but at least it was running in the direction we wanted to go, so got rid of the Mainsail and jogged along under a working jib (No 2.5). In this type of situation it made the boat very easy to control and we still managed to get long runs of 17 knots which got us back to Noumea fast.

We loaded up with ice, beer and baguettes, had dinner at a relatively cheap( for New Cal) Vietnamese restaurant and headed of to Amadee lighthouse the next day.

This is a large Cast Iron lighthouse that was made in France in sections and brought out in 1862

http://www.amedee.ws/index.php?pg=30

scan0042.jpg


scan0043.jpg


scan0044.jpg



Big climb to the top, great view, nice spot.

From there we stooged around a few islands and reefs for a few days and got scared on more than one occasion spotting reef nearby in waters that were supposedly clear and deep.

One day we anchored up behind an Island where they were fiming a TV show call "The Mole in Paradise" (we watched it in Bris. and we made it on TV) and the next day when we left we ran the boat aground HARD on an un-charted lump of reef

Hit the reef at 14 knots with the dagger boards down lifting the entire hull almost clear of the water.

We were stuck.

I went below expecting to find a gash in the hull where the board had torn back through the hull, smashing furniture and flooding the boat, but instead found no evidence of any damage.

We dropped the motor in and gunned her backwards and forwards for what seemed an eternity with hideous grinding noises and bits of board (cedar) floating about and eventualy got her off.

Motored back to the anchrage and spent the next hour or more struggling to get the remains of the board out as it had jammed solid. Eventualy we had a result and fed it back down and out the bottom and retrieved it and this was the damage. (got to happy with that)

029_29.JPG


Did a dive and checked underneath and found a small split in the Glass at the back edge of the case about 12 mm long and that was it.

Cosidering I have seen boats that have torn the side of the boat out leaving holes big enough to put your head through I was incredibly happy.

Happy I put a seemingly ridiculous amount of reinforcing and mountains of Kevlar, Carbon Fibre and glass in this area.

Continued on our trip for a few more days before giiving the boat back to an unhappy owner (he should have been happy, this boat was bulletproof) she had been driven hard during races and cruising, had been hit by lightning had run up on reef and was still fast and comfortable and showed no real sign of wear.

The boat you could'nt root, shoot or electrocute.

I offered to stay behind and do the repair for him, but somehow I think he was glad to see us gone.

To this day I am very sad to have let her go, but glad she is in New Cal as it would have broken my heart to have her bought by a negligent owner and left sitting in a Marina in Brisbane where I would have seen her slowly deteriorate through lack of use like most boats.

The good news is after the sale, we could now pay off the PPOR which freed up heaps of cash allowing us to start the IP adventure.

At last we were now starting to get an idea as to how we would be able to pay for diesel to run the new boat as we had no idea when we started, we just figured we'd make it up as we went doing odd jobs.

More soon

Dave
 
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