carbon tax repeal

OK, I'll leave the rest alone, other than this bit.



What I've pointed out previously is that the very best, and most conclusive way for reasonable adults to express their opinions on a range of topics is to vote during a general election, supporting the political representative that most closely aligns with your ideals / thoughts / opinions on any and all topics.

That's what the entire country has just been through. That's why I don't understand what the point of the demonstration / protest was, other than to highlight that their viewpoint is definitely in the minority.

The salient point is that the majority of folk around Australia disagree with their views.

Unless of course they are relying on the ol' "squeaky wheel gets the oil" principle. If you jump up and down long enough and loud enough as a special interest group, then someone is bound to take notice, and hopefully your concerns can over-ride the silent majority who voted differently, for a different course of action in a general election.
We're going backwards and forwards. I agree that the carbon tax is dead. So let's put this talk that "the election decided the matter" away from this discussion.

The emission reduction fund is still alive. The Liberal Party mandate included this policy on their platform. This policy is still being formed. There's still room for policy to change.

Unless the policy has been already decided and this public consultation is just a charade then there's still room for people to make their opinions known.
 
So let's put this talk that "the election decided the matter" away from this discussion.

Wishful thinking Geoff and avoiding the current state of affairs ole Mate.

Coalition won the election, no scumbag independents with vendettas to mess things up like the last 3 very very hard and wasteful years.

What a shame that was and a very bad memory, let alone how the players who brought it all about have scarpered into the distance.

yet the vote result is what now rules, no escaping that mate. Suck it up.

just like many here had to suck up the last 6 years of shame in Australian politics.:rolleyes:
 
The Fence. Have you read what I've said?

The coalition have a new policy which is just being formed. There's public discussion on that new policy. I'm not going to suck anything up because I'm not talking about the carbon tax. I'm talking about the policy of the government in power now.

The policy of the current government in power is the Emissions Trading Fund. Let's talk about the current policy instead of slagging off at people.
 
No it didn't. But that's ok. I'd prefer to see opinion from a more mainstream source- I don't know anything about Business Green.

Here 'tis
Just a factual.

The new Australian Coalition Government has stated that its first order of business will the repeal of the Carbon Pricing Mechanism (CPM) or the so called "carbon tax". Indeed new Australian PM Tony Abbott promised in his victory speech that "in three years' time, the carbon tax will be gone".

There is a lot of debate on if and how this will happen, the extent to which the National Labor Party (NLP) will or will not stand in the way, and if they do how this will impact on the seven to nine independent Senators in the Upper House? Let's move quickly past these debates and assume that the new Government is successful.


If the Senate supports the Repeal Bill the CPM will be repealed by 1 July 2014 at the latest. If the Senate blocks the Bill then the Government will need to resort to the double dissolution process triggering another election. Assuming they again win this then the CPM will likely be repealed eight to nine months following such an election.

Either way let's consider what the CPM will be replaced with. As a starting point the new Government has made a clear commitment to stick to Australia's international target to reduce greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions to five per cent below 2000 levels by 2020. So if they are going to repeal the CPM they need to deliver an alternative to achieve this. That alternative is their Direct Action Plan (the "DAP"), which the Government aims to commence by 1 July 2014. It is often portrayed as a pot of money to be used to buy domestic emissions reductions or low cost abatement. There is actually more to it than that.

At its simplest the DAP is an incentive based policy designed to support emissions reduction activities through:

a capped government fund which will purchase "lowest cost abatement" from projects that reduce or avoid greenhouse gas emissions (Emissions Reduction Fund - "the Fund"), and
the imposition of financial penalties on businesses which exceed their "business as usual" emissions baselines.

The details of the DAP will be developed through a white paper process. Submissions will be sought by 7 October, consultation will take place between 6 November and 16 December, and implementing legislation will be ready by 5 February 2014. We note that legislation to introduce the DAP will be subject to the same hurdles as discussed above for the Repeal.

The Fund will consist of $300m in the first year, $500m in the second and $750m in the third. Although the exact details of the Fund will be finalised during the White Paper process, it is currently proposed that Low Carbon Australia (which will be demerged from the Clean Energy Finance Corporation to act as administrator of the Fund) will buy the "lowest cost per tonne abatement" from entities which:

reduce emissions through a project approved under the existing and/or expanded Carbon Farming Initiative (CFI), or
create abatement by operating below their "business as usual" baseline.

Low Carbon Australia will purchase abatement through a reverse auction where entities can voluntarily place bids based on the lowest price they are willing to sell their abatement for. Low Carbon Australia will be able to enter into forward contracts with entities to purchase abatement which may be delivered over a five to seven year period. Funding, however, will only be delivered once abatement is actually achieved.

One issue which will need to be determined during the White Paper process is whether there will be any consequences for a project which does not deliver its contracted abatement. Although it is clear that the project will not receive payment if the abatement is not delivered, consideration may need to be given as to whether there will be other incentives or penalties included to guarantee the contracted abatement. This will be particularly important where the Government is relying on the contracted emissions reductions to achieve its 2020 target.

Greg Hunt, the likely new Climate Minister, has indicated that a Coalition Government will not pick and choose what types of projects it will purchase abatement from (for example, through funding categories or "bands" based on sector or abatement type), but rather, will simply purchase the lowest cost abatement offered through the auctions. He has expressed it as "buying up the cost curve". This approach may raise issues about the viability of existing or proposed CFI projects if they find that they are unable to compete with other project types participating in the auctions. For example, it is widely anticipated that energy efficiency projects are likely to be the lowest cost form of abatement and that with aggregation, these types of projects may easily absorb a large part of the allocated funding for the Fund. Conversely, land sector projects (such as reforestation), which often have significant upfront capital costs and long lead times for abatement to be realised, may struggle to compete for funding under the Fund.

Most speculation, argument and analysis has focused around the first limb, the Fund and not the system of financial penalties to be imposed on businesses whose emissions exceed their "business as usual" emissions baselines. This criticism of the Fund has centered on whether or not this will be enough money to purchase sufficient abatement to meet the 5% target. Abbott has stated clearly that there will be no more money made available and so it will have to do. So perhaps this is where the baseline and penalty part of the DAP will play its part in addressing any abatement shortfall.

The exact details of who will be liable to pay financial penalties under the DAP and the value of those penalties is expected to be consulted on and finalised through the White Paper process. The Government has, however, referred to the fact that the "business as usual" emissions baselines will be calculated on an individual firm basis, will be based on a firm's average emissions over the past five years using data reported via the National Greenhouse and Energy Reporting Scheme (NGERS) and may potentially be linked to a firm's emissions intensity.

One has to ask the obvious question. What is the fundamental difference between a scheme such as the CPM where a liable entity has a cap on their emissions for which they will incur a financial penalty if their emissions exceed this cap and a scheme where an entity will incur a financial penalty if their emissions exceed a business as usual "baseline"? In both cases if their emissions are below the cap or baseline they can sell the excess emissions. In fairness, it is not clear under the DAP if those businesses who exceed their "baseline" can purchase abatement "credits". Under the CPM liable entities for whom reducing emissions would be highly expensive could purchase cheaper reductions from those who found it cheaper to reduce their emissions. Not to mention their free allocation and compensation many were entitled to.

Therefore it is not beyond the realms of possibility to imagine that what could emerge from this latest round of Australian consultation and legislating on climate change is some form of reincarnated market mechanism with a new name and brand. After all Australia has under both shades of Government been designing emissions trading schemes, issuing white papers and running consultations on this for over 10 years now. At least the CPM made it to the statute books even if a betting man would not put a great deal of money on it remaining there for too long.

Perhaps the smart advocates of an effective, efficient and functioning market mechanism to mitigate climate change in Australia should be putting their efforts into ensuring that this second limb of the DAP is as well designed and effective as possible. The Carbon Pricing King is Dead, Long live the Carbon Pricing King!

Anthony Hobley is global head of sustainability and climate change at Norton Rose Fulbright
 
At present it's looking unlikely that the government will get the CT repeal bills through the current senate.

Agreed. The Govt doesn't control the Senate...once again, the numbers on the floor dictate otherwise. The make-up of the Senate is exactly the same as the Senate that approved the Carbon Tax bill to be enacted in the first place. Highly unlikely they will undo their own handiwork, especially after all of the backslapping they did after putting the Carbon Tax in place.
 
Agreed. The Govt doesn't control the Senate...once again, the numbers on the floor dictate otherwise. The make-up of the Senate is exactly the same as the Senate that approved the Carbon Tax bill to be enacted in the first place. Highly unlikely they will undo their own handiwork, especially after all of the backslapping they did after putting the Carbon Tax in place.

The carbon tax was contentious even amongst the ALP. But at least it was one attempt to move on climate change action. Anything Australia does is minuscule in the scale of things, but something we do may just prod other countries.

I'd prefer myself to see the carbon tax finished and to let the coalition proceed with their own plan. The senate appears to be acting more on the exercise of power than being in true support of a tax which many possibly didn't even support before it became party policy.
 
The level of ignorance show by people and the number of deniers on this forum is breathtaking.

It is no longer a question of Lib vs Lab vs Green or CTS vs ETS vs DA. 4 degrees of climate change is coming. 2 degrees is locked in, 4 degrees has almost no chance of being prevented due to the large emitters being either in denial of the problem or wanting the other guy to go 1st.

The only real question is what will be the extent of the damage and what investments will be able to endure.
 
The level of ignorance show by people and the number of deniers on this forum is breathtaking.

It is no longer a question of Lib vs Lab vs Green or CTS vs ETS vs DA. 4 degrees of climate change is coming. 2 degrees is locked in, 4 degrees has almost no chance of being prevented due to the large emitters being either in denial of the problem or wanting the other guy to go 1st.

The only real question is what will be the extent of the damage and what investments will be able to endure.

We all like to feel important :)

Unfortunately we here in Australia make virtually no difference to the climate situation throughout the world. The southern hemisphere is already a Co2 sink, if we could isolate the 2 hemispheres of the world so that the air currents did not intermix then eventually the plants would all die in the southern hemisphere.

Because we have so much water in the south the plankton, algal blooms etc within the ocean suck Co2 out of the air, if it wasn't replaced by Co2 from the north then the plants on land would not get enough and possible die.

The whole concept of trying to influence the northern manufacturing countries behaviour is a demonstration of the naivety of the Labour and Greens attitude to all thing practical. If you wish to negotiate you do not place all your cards on the table face up and say help yourself, you say I will do this if you do that, simply naive :(
 
The whole concept of trying to influence the northern manufacturing countries behaviour is a demonstration of the naivety of the Labour and Greens attitude to all thing practical.
This is something I don't get.

The Coalition is doing something. Yet it's Labor and the Greens who are naive?
 
The only real question is what will be the extent of the damage and what investments will be able to endure.


Without doubt, food production should increase with the higher levels of CO2. [this is bad for farmers by the way. Good for anyone who's not a farmer] My summer rainfall also seems to be increasing without loss in other seasons which would be just perfect. This is a fact I can back up with 80 years of rainfall records. A lot of countries will welcome the warmer temps.

Another fact is that life on this world has always thrived in the warm times, and has been decimated in the cold periods.

What if global warming is more good than bad?


See ya's.
 
What if global warming is more good than bad?
See ya's.
There was experiment done some time ago with 3 trees - one exposed to normal air, one to increased co2 and one to very high levels of co2. Totally controlled atmosphere, temps, nutrients, water, etc.

Guess which one grew the most in the time frame of the experiment?

The only arguments I've ever heard for GW is that it will melt the ice, the sea will rise, the water will heat up and supposedly kill coral. Coral can only grow in warm water I believe.

We only look at it as bad for us humans, and folk always assume we humans will cause any temp rise.

Meanwhile, in the next 50 years the population will probably double (that will be extremely bad - far worse than any GW guff).

So, we try to fix it on one hand, and undermine it with the other.

It's a friggin' joke.

In 100 years time we will look back and see we spent billions on a tax/trading scheme, and god knows what other associated disasters economically from it, and the temp will be the same.

Might even be cooler.
 
The Coalition is doing something. Yet it's Labor and the Greens who are naive?

Labor and the Greens are not naive.

Labor and the Greens are sitting on the opposition benches because their viewpoint and opinion on this and other subject matters do not align with the views of the majority of Australians. It doesn't get more simple than that.
 
This is something I don't get.

The Coalition is doing something. Yet it's Labor and the Greens who are naive?

It's moved on from a question of science to an ideological battle field.

As a result there can be no compromise from either side.

It's pretty sad. I support a general move away from non-renewables due to simple economic and practical factors. It will have to happen into the future, so why not start making that move now? Or at least developing workable alternatives.

Does a Carbon Tax achieve this? No. Not at all. Investment in research and development, either from private or public funding, will acheive this. The Carbon Tax was a meaningless number. Not even large builders I know actually cared that much about it. It became some evil bogeyman through osmosis more than practical experience. Energy costs, for example, were far more impacted upon by the energy companies increasing prices time and time again and gold plating infrastructure and increasing connection fees. But no one seems to get worked up about this.

In terms of protest, I would be interested to see how many of those getting worked up about it were cheering the anti Carbon Tax protestors on a couple of years back...
 
The level of ignorance show by people and the number of deniers on this forum is breathtaking.

It is no longer a question of Lib vs Lab vs Green or CTS vs ETS vs DA. 4 degrees of climate change is coming. 2 degrees is locked in, 4 degrees has almost no chance of being prevented due to the large emitters being either in denial of the problem or wanting the other guy to go 1st.
Emitting what?

What's the timeframe for the "locked in" 2 degree hike?
 
So glad this is finally getting scrapped.

Lower house holds bills.
Eliminate a useless business expense.
Affect international emissions permits prices
Comittment to carbon targets unchanged.

Sounds like a win all round?
I'll bet the difference in our next power bills that the price won't go down....ever.
 
Labor and the Greens are not naive.

Labor and the Greens are sitting on the opposition benches because their viewpoint and opinion on this and other subject matters do not align with the views of the majority of Australians. It doesn't get more simple than that.
True.

It makes them deaf, and stubborn and delusional.

They want to keep selling folk apples when they keep saying "we want a banana".
 
Labor and the Greens are not naive.

Labor and the Greens are sitting on the opposition benches because their viewpoint and opinion on this and other subject matters do not align with the views of the majority of Australians. It doesn't get more simple than that.
Yes, his has been mentioned. More than once. I think we get it.

There's been little mention about the Coalition policy, which I've mentioned more than once. I'd be interested in some views from people.
 
Back
Top