deciding on a new accountant- cheaper or more expensive option?

[donkey]

Im currently trying to decide on which new accountant to choose. I've been using the same accountant for 3 yrs and dislike his $100 fee increase each yr. $330 increased to $430 and then I paid $503 last yr...

I've spent considerable time on researching the options and think that I've narrowed it down to 2 options. I have 1 I.P, income from interest in bank and small abn work ( a few invoices, no expenses). The quotes have come back from several accountants: $450, $430, $385, $350, $297, $200

1st: accountant A- $200 plus GST:
Small tier firm with 3 partners and several 'professional staff'. Emailed the partner who came back with a very cheap quote. I asked if my return would be delegated to a junior staff and he said yes. I asked if there were any catches and he said no. The partner is a real accountant with over 20 yrs experience.... studied at big uni in sydney many yrs ago and did his PY (professional yr). Back then highly respected and miles ahead of the CPA. Presumably he would check the return that his junior would prepare?

2nd accountant B- $297 plus GST:
Another small firm with 2 partners. The foot soldier that emailed me is part of the 'accounting staff' and has 12 yrs experience, degree from a uni near sydney, member of institute of chartered accountants since 2005. No mention of CPA or anything

I dont believe that my return is very complex and thus want to chose one of the 2 above cheaper options. What do you think about this? Which would you choose in my situation.

I appreciate your opinion

 

[donkey]

After posting this thread and checked my inbox there was an email from another accountant from company A above who quoted $300 to $350. I originally emailed her 4 days ago but after no reply emailed the accountant described above who quoted the cheap $200 plus GST. These are 2 accountants from the same firm

 

[speary]

I can't really tell you which one to choose but being an accountant I can give you a bit of info.

The first one, it will be delegated to the junior staff, and will be reviewed by someone more senior, it may not be this partner, although he will likely be the one who signs off on it.

The second one, if the Accountant is a member of the institute of chartered accountants then they are a CA which is equally (some say higher qualified than a CPA, but lets not have that argument).

Like you said, your return wont be that difficult and so long as you summarise all your info then you will probably get the same outcome.

The reason your fees go up a little bit each year is due to our costs (wages mainly) going up hence why our base fee goes up $10 + gst each year. In my opinion $503 is expensive for your situation.

You may also need to consider what you are likely to do in the future and whether they will be able to provide the advice that you may require.

Hope that helps

 

[sanj]

Im currently trying to decide on which new accountant to choose. I've been using the same accountant for 3 yrs and dislike his $100 fee increase each yr. $330 increased to $430 and then I paid $503 last yr...

I've spent considerable time on researching the options and think that I've narrowed it down to 2 options. I have 1 I.P, income from interest in bank and small abn work ( a few invoices, no expenses). The quotes have come back from several accountants: $450, $430, $385, $350, $297, $200

1st: accountant A- $200 plus GST:
Small tier firm with 3 partners and several 'professional staff'. Emailed the partner who came back with a very cheap quote. I asked if my return would be delegated to a junior staff and he said yes. I asked if there were any catches and he said no. The partner is a real accountant with over 20 yrs experience.... studied at big uni in sydney many yrs ago and did his PY (professional yr). Back then highly respected and miles ahead of the CPA. Presumably he would check the return that his junior would prepare?

2nd accountant B- $297 plus GST:
Another small firm with 2 partners. The foot soldier that emailed me is part of the 'accounting staff' and has 12 yrs experience, degree from a uni near sydney, member of institute of chartered accountants since 2005. No mention of CPA or anything

I dont believe that my return is very complex and thus want to chose one of the 2 above cheaper options. What do you think about this? Which would you choose in my situation.

I appreciate your opinion

my opinion is that you should go with whoever you think will give you the best service and advice. you are talking about a small difference in price, much of a muchness imo.

 

[alexlee]

It's hard when 1) you don't understand the information given to you and 2) you don't know what you need to pay for.

e.g. You recognise the letters PY (qualifying program to become a Chartered Accountant) and CPA, but don't know that being a member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants means the 2nd accountant is a CA, which is at least equivalent to a CPA. And as if unis matter after 2 years of work experience and the qualifying exams, much less 12 years.

Your return isn't complicated NOW. Do you expect it to get more complicated in the future? If you expect to buy a lot more property or your business grows, etc, then you need someone who can advise you on structures etc. People who specialise in these, and therefore are usually better at it, often charge more for simple returns (so your focus on price filters out those who are better qualified to help you in the medium and long terms.)

It may be that these guys you have quotes from can advise you on more complicated stuff, but you haven't asked, so you don't know. Years of experience by itself isn't enough. Experience with what? Doing $200 tax returns year after year for 20 years?

If you're just after someone to do your returns at the cheapest price, go to those guys who set up tables at shopping centres. What you SHOULD be doing is considering what level of advice you need in the future.

 

[sanj]

What you SHOULD be doing is considering what level of advice you need in the future.

Very good post, in particular this bit.

 

[Orks]

Dude just do it yourself on Etax, your return sounds pretty simple, shouldn't take you more than an hour or two to plug in the info if you have half decent records.

Then get an accountant when your affairs start getting more complicated.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Very good post, in particular this bit.

2nd this.

I've had contact quite a few times with my accountant in the last 2 days.

I needed my ASIC key number for a business name, and other various details, couldn't find it anywhere, call accountant and get it instantly.
Another thing was I need a fast cash loan of 300k for a few months, spoke to accountant last week, he came back yesterday with a deal for me and will organise everything so I can get the cash.

Don't know what I am paying for these services, and it would be difficult to compare, but I'm very happy so don't care.
Whatever we have paid in the past is worth the money, as it brings value to us.

 

[Paul@PFI]

Accountants

I'm an accountant too. Is he just an accountant ??

The days of the tax accountant are on the wane. Any numpty can use etax if they have a PC and can read. Correct that...I was approached by a new client who tried etax using a public libabry computer (Not very secure).

Our practice has a focus on clients who have wealth. Super, business, family etc doesnt matter. We arent cheap for tax but not outragous either. I refuse clients who just want a tax return. If I cant do more I dont want them. I dont charge for infrequent calls, a curly question etc.

We integrate SMSF & SMSF strategies, Financial Planning, Insurances, Hands On Funds Management (we have a dealer license not just a Auth Rep), assist with Centrelink and Assets Tests, Aged Care advice and.....Lots of other stuff. All of it involves assisting our clients to pay less tax and build their retirement funds. One Director just saved a client $620,000 in a $3,600 job. Another settled with ATO in eight days after spending $1.5m on a well known tax expert.

We often see tax issues with little stuff...Small outcomes ARE our responsibility. We bother about doing a Nil ITR for a very low income taxpayer. So they get the super contribution benefits. We bother with claiming $11,000 grand of medical expenses to find only $2 is subject to offset...Why ? Cause next year they lose it if we dont. Do we make $$ from this fine detail ?? No. Our clients benefit. Its part of what we do. We dont have to make $$ from a tax return unlike all firms that have a structure that only makes money from tax.

I would consider finding an accountant who can do more than just a tax return....Someone who has depth of experience rather than numbers of years. I have seen some crap accountants with ten years experience. And some masters with 30 and even 4 years. But have seen some tragic mistakes by people in tax who are generalists. One of the first mistakes is not having an AFSL. If you cant advise on investment, loans & super you cant do much.

Example : Look at one very well known CA firm in property...Lets call em Chin & Nylor...One tax manager even a hired gun who accepted a contract kill on a (now deceased) developer in a recent court case...We dont go that far

 

[map]

Speaking of Chin & Nylor, I've been charged $550(incl. GST) for my tax return this year for me (PAYG) & 2 IPs. Seems excessive - breakdown is $200 for me and $150 per property. Quite a chunk out of a $3K return.

Any thoughts on the reasonableness of these fees?

 

[coastymike]

The fee at house of wealth for one individual with 2 investment properties would be $485 including gst. So not horrendous

 

[map]

Thanks CoastyMike for the comparison.

 

[Rolf Latham]

Whatever we have paid in the past is worth the money, as it brings value to us.

kaching

thats really the focus on VALUE vs "cost/expense"

I see this distraction get into peoples lives EVERY day



ta
rolf

 

[robbiejuve]

PY = CA > CPA

When I used to work in private practice some people would do CPA but it was frowned upon greatly, partners would not pay for CPA, only CA.

I use an accountant that went to TAFE, is late 50's and owns a large portfolio of property as do many of his clients.

Experience trumps all pieces of paper.

 

[RPI]

I'd love to give you the name of the accounting firm of a client I have as who not to go with.

Client got them to setup a trust. Accountant set it up with client as sole trustee and sole beneficiary. That means the trust doesn't exist, you can't have a legal relationship with yourself.

Client has signed an unconditional contract to purchase a house in the name of the trust that doesn't actually exist.

Just a little bit of paperwork to sort that mess out.