Depression

[INVSTOR]

Bayview,

Sell your business, get whatever you can for it. Get a better paying J.O.B than you have now. Pay back the loan slowly.

Downsize your house. Be happy with what you and your family have and enjoy each other. If you completely change your situation you will feel much better.

Realistically people will probably say "oh, did you hear what happened to Bayview and Co" for a about 5 minutes and then no one will give a $hit but your life will be much better.

Nothing the world has to offer is worth the price of depression.

I had to restructure my life 4 years ago with a business going bad, took the tough medicine and im much better for it now.

This is what I'd suggest also.

See a good GP.

I had depression after my first baby. I was seeing a GP for mother and baby care and when I was better, I was surprised she hadn't picked it up.

I was feeling like crap one day so I took my baby to the park. On the way back I ran out of petrol. An old Italian guy pulled up behind me to see if he could help. I told him my petrol gage on car didn't work, I ran out of petrol, I'm new to this city and I don't know where any petrol stations are. By this stage I was crying. He grabbed a jerry can out the back of his ute and filled up my car and said, "you've just run out of petrol, what's really wrong?"
When I thought about this more I realised I was depressed and pushed through to see another doctor although I felt ashamed and knew I'd burst into tears again. It was only when I was getting better that I could look back and realise how depressed I was. When I was depressed I felt that life was crap and I couldn't change it. As you get better you realise you are in control and have choices to make change.
Thank you little Italian man who carries petrol with him.

 

[lizzie]

Marc - I don't know if you remember - around 6 years ago (gosh, thought it was longer) I was bawling my eyes out down the keyboard at you SS lot ... things had really hit the $hit due to a really bad timing financial decision I made - and pushed hubby into.

He still has no idea how close we were to being forced to sell the dream PPOR as everything was maxed out - credit cards, lines of credit, everything - and still the repayments alone were higher than the income coming in.

Maybe it was serendipity or fate - but - hubby's job took us on a work transfer - and we were forced to rent for 6 months at under half what we rented out PPOR out for ... and shortly afterwards my supposed "big money maker" investment sold for a substantial loss. I also had to sell every other IP - rather painful as some would have ended up very good little money makers but we couldn't afford to hold them at the time.

The rent difference, selling every IP we owned, and not having the extra mortgage burden of the loss making IP, gave us enough to keep the heads above water and slowly claw our way back financially.

What also helped was that we realised we didn't have to "live" in the huge PPOR with the ocean views to enjoy life and bought another much cheaper property in the same suburb - did a reno - and sold for a tidy profit. All while the ocean views PPOR was rented out.

It wasn't until we sold the PPOR just 18 months ago that we finally cleared the debt caused by that mistake of mine - and I'm talking around $300k debt solely attributed to that decision.

I guess the crux of this little story is that if we hadn't been "forced" to move and rent then we would have really been up $hit creek. We wouldn't have been able to make the decision to do so ourselves ... but that 6 months of renting (and IP clearance sales) put us right back on track.

I still know that, if not for me, we could've been $300k+ ahead - but - when I look at it - we now have a fantastic rural property with potential and 20% mortgage - 3 IP's (all bought since that disaster 6 years ago) that are all positively geared - and a tidy super fund.

Things do turn around ... and sometimes we have to take a step or two down to find a new path up.

Some of that may be an option for you ... sell the auto business for whatever you can get ... rent out the PPOR ... move to where you can get a good job (wife can get a job anywhere) ... sell IP if it doesn't rent ... all with the intention of moving back to PPOR in the future.

But funnily enough - after being forced to move away - we didn't feel we "had" to move back.

Don't worry about moving the kids - they are flexible. Junior had 5 schools in 4 years at one stage there, until things settled down, and she's lived in 7 different houses in her 10 years ... with no ill effects.

 

[JIT]

Marc's PPOR will likely only be a holiday rental, so it maybe better for him to just take on a boarder or two?

 

[lizzie]

Or even sell everything and start afresh where there is work and in the same buy/sell property market ...

As we found out - our dream/forever PPOR wasn't remotely our final PPOR - and that we can be just as happy not in a "dream" PPOR because it is about us as a family making a house our home, not the house itself.

If he sold everything - cleared all debt - how much would he have to play with? Enough for a nice profit add thru reno PPOR with no mortgage? A couple (or more) IP deposits in a more reliable rent area? Enough to be a stay a home dad for a while slowly renovating the PPOR while the missus earned a good cashflow?

Only Marc can answer that ... but there are options - and sometimes we get hung up on not letting go, when letting go "can" sometimes be the best option.

Not saying he has to ... just saying that by putting things in perspective, the worst case scenario is not to shabby at all

 

[ok180]

Lizzie hit the nail on the head. It's all just "stuff" at the end of the day. Give me a 2x bedroom apartment and happy lifestyle than a mansion full of worries and problems any day.

My dad is a few years older than you Bayview, mid 50's. He's been depressed for many many years. About 15 years ago he had to sell his acerage property due to his business going south. Took the hard medicine, sold up and bought a 4x bedroom mcmasion outright. He seemed to me much happier than he had been in a long time, money in his pocket, still running the biz but not under as much stress, more free time to enjoy himself because he no longer had the big property to maintain which gets hard to do when your depressed.

So what did he do?

Business picked up and he went out and bought the dream PPOR again, acerage, built a 56 square house - only him and my mum living there mind you. Business is still doing ok but he is more depressed than ever now and has a large mortgage to deal with too. The big PPOR didn't improve his life one bit. When I bring it up with him he is defiant saying "No way we would ever live on an ordinary block again!" but i know it is all bull$****.

Take from that what you will.

 

[one world]

We only get to see afar if we stand on the backs of giants.

There are many of stories of great personal courage in this thread.

Keep it up folks. Many of us can learn from your experiences.

And thanks again from sharing and making this a very worthwhile thread.

 

[AlmostBob]

snipped quote

Medication can be very helpful , but it doesn't fix it . Appropriate counselling is very important in the overall management , especially in the early phases .

For long term or recurrent depression . medications can be live changing

certain I can get by on my own, I'm strong, it cant be anything serious
but
Kathryn took me to a gp, one with insight, 10mg to start, helps a bit
6 months up to 20mg
one 20mg tablet, I DO NOT want to be that person again
20 years of horror, recurring nightmares, flashbacks the worst memories imaginable, cold sweats, unable to be in a crowd because one of them is armed and dangerous, unable to be alone, to be a target in the open, angry, rude.

solved for me almost immediately, solved for those around me a little later, I was horrible

a doctor who knew what to ask
counselling from a psych nurse practitioner, also a veteran who knew what to say
and my ladylove, who wouldnt believe that it had to be so bad

Been told, nothing wrong just suck it up, tried sucking it up for 20 years, didnt work
treatment and counselling work, well, best together

still have some nightmares, dont scream nearly as much

 

[Crabnet]

I'm reminded by this thread of a recent news article I read.
Even millionaires can suffer from depression.

Blue Wiggle Anthony Field speaks out about depression for Men's Health Week.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/lifestyle/health-fitness/blue-wiggle-anthony-field-speaks-out-about-depression-for-mens-health-week/story-fni0diab-1226660966758

AS an entertainer he inspired thousands of children to sing and dance in the aisles but after the concert the Blue Wiggle, Anthony Field, would retire to his dressing room and break down.

Overweight, suffering from clinical depression, crippled by pain from infected teeth and swollen joints and deaf in one ear the children’s entertainer suffered in silence for eight years before finally seeking help.

In Men’s Health Week the man behind the blue skivvy is appealing to other men who are depressed or in pain to speak up, tell a friend, talk to a doctor or ring a helpline to get assistance.

“Ten years ago Murray helped me by saying - are you okay, are you well?” says Field.

“The Australian thing is to keep it in, don’t talk about it, she’ll be right mate but that’s not good.

“Talking to someone is the first step, talk to your friend, then someone professional.”

The Blue Wiggle suffered in pain and struggled with depression for eight years before he sought help in 2003.
He saw a psychologist, started taking anti-depressants, lost 16 kilograms, had teeth removed and replaced with titanium implants and saw a naturopath.

Ten years later he says he’s drug free, eating well, on the right track and in the middle of a punishing concert tour.
“I’ve turned 50 and can do handstands and the splits. I’m enjoying it too much to give up,” he says.

 

[one world]

Taking on debt can make property investors wealthy in certain circumstances.

Did anyone become more depressed after taking on too much debt?

How did you cope?

 

[The Fence]

Gotta admit, Lizzie has it sewn up I think.

Change is as good as a holiday.

I wonder what the sums are in a start all over scenario...?

 

[BayView]

Answers in blue.

Marc... is it time to sell this IP? (seeing as you can't sell the business)The plan was to do the much-needed reno, and get a tenant in immediately. Even at $300p/w it is pos cashflow, and with the wife now back at work 4 shifts per fortnight, the combined added cashflow would be a huge help. So, will have to hang on until it gets tenanted..we've had it vacant for a year and a half; a few more weeks won't matter - just annoying; it's like there is someone up there is deliberately putting road blocks in our path at every turn.

Want to put up a link to it, someone else who knows the area may give you some pointers on this?Happy with the agent.

Even if you clear 50-100k after CGT (which you won't have to pay till later next year anyway) it will give you some breathing space and lower the price you may have to eventually sell the business for.I'll give it another few weeks before going down the selling path. It's never been vacnat this long (when tenanted) ever; it's just a realy slow time over there right now, and of course; my timing for the reno was the wrost time. Can't f'in' win.

Hang on to the PPOR for as long as you can, eventually someone will pay $2M+ for it, and you can move to a cheaper place on the Peninsula without the "BayView" and invest the rest in dividend paying shares, kick back and be another success story.Yes; an option, but this will be absolute last resort - we love the house and unless could trade up to even better for no extra cash; won't sell anytime soon unless our hand is forced.

And I think you may need to accept that buying any more IPs isn't going to get you where you want anymore, and holding onto this one isn't either.We were doing OK with the IP's before the business purchase, and that was on average wages at best.

Had sold two before the O/S move in '05 before this. One was because we got misled on probable rent return (my own fault for not enough DD most likely) and couldn't afford the massive cashflow drop plus 3 months without a tenant, but the other one was because we were nervous about the future with the O/S trip. Didn't actually need to sell it as it turned out.

So it's not the IP's that are/were the problem really.

 

[BayView]

Taking on debt can make property investors wealthy in certain circumstances.

Did anyone become more depressed after taking on too much debt?

How did you cope?

Lots of debt is not a worry - it's the inability to service it that is.

When I was 18, my car engine blew up.

I had to take out a cash advance on my CC for $900 to fix it. That was severe stress.

Not too long ago, I had $1mill in debt and was sleeping like a baby without a worry - so I thought.

Now; still have the same debt, and still sleeping like a baby - wake up crying every 3 hours.

 

[BayView]

Gotta admit, Lizzie has it sewn up I think.

Change is as good as a holiday.

I wonder what the sums are in a start all over scenario...?

Selling the PPoR today at rock bottom (which no doubt would be the case given our run - there are very few properties in our backwater at this level, and very few buyers at that level for this area) would leave us with a business we own outright, and an IP we own outright, plus one car and the furniture.

 

[ok180]

would leave us with a business we own outright, and an IP we own outright, plus one car and the furniture.

I would rather have nothing at all than be depressed every day. We're all different I guess. Hopefully you will be able to see the forest from the tree's one day Bayview.

 

[china]

Selling the PPoR today at rock bottom (which no doubt would be the case given our run - there are very few properties in our backwater at this level, and very few buyers at that level for this area) would leave us with a business we own outright, and an IP we own outright, plus one car and the furniture.

Sorry to hear about this. For a lot of us, our home is our castle, to be defended till the last. Hopefully, things pick up soon.

 

[INVSTOR]

Sorry to hear about this. For a lot of us, our home is our castle, to be defended till the last. Hopefully, things pick up soon.

Your mind, body and family are your castle, possesions easily come and go.

 

[The Fence]

And you only live once. Make the most of it, even if it means a few steps back before striding forward again.

It will feel better without the pressure.

 

[JIT]

Answers in blue.

Hopefully you will get it tenanted soon then.

If not, I'd give it the flick and focus on getting the debt against the PPOR down ASAP.

The equity stored here is what will set you free eventually (but only if it comes with a change in expectations of where you should live down the track), not the extra hundred bucks from the IP rent, or an under-performing business in a tough industry.

If there was a choice, keep the PPOR and flick the IP then the business.

Anyway you have enough suggestions here to make your call.

Seeing a GP and psychologist may help clear the fog and negativity that is part and parcel of being in a situation like this, and perhaps give you some clarity to make some hard decisions going forwards.

 

[BayView]

I would rather have nothing at all than be depressed every day. We're all different I guess. Hopefully you will be able to see the forest from the tree's one day Bayview.

The wife and I have already discussed selling the PPoR, and are prepared to do it, but as a last resort.

A tenanted IP, her now at work again, and an uptick in the trade is going to change things very quickly, we are sure.

The whole thing is disappointing, is all.

We should be able to enjoy rewards for hard work and making an effort to get ahead - not get reamed.

But that's life, and I've been down before, and will come back up.

 

[MarkB]

I've been down before, and will come back up.

[emphasis added]

And that's really all that matters.