Depression

[emphasis added]

And that's really all that matters.


Rocky Balboa:

"Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done! Now if you know what you're worth then go out and get what you're worth. But ya gotta be willing to take the hits, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody! Cowards do that and that ain't you! You're better than that! "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Vg4uyYwEk
 
Bayview, I know we don't always see eye to eye, but I just wanted to thank you for the honesty you've shown in baring so much to us all and wish you the best for the future.

Hang in there, I need someone to butt heads with on the Internet :p
 
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a doctor who knew what to ask
Been told, nothing wrong just suck it up, tried sucking it up for 20 years, didnt work
treatment and counselling work, well, best together

AlmostBob,
That sure sounds an awful lot like PTSD. Real pleased for you that you made some good decisions and saw the right people. A good outcome.

Bayview, as earlier posts said, congratulations on letting us all into your personal life, and there has been a lot of good advice given to help you.
You, no doubt, have a lot of ticker to open up like you have, and I'm pretty sure you won't let this beat you.
Best wishes to both you and Bob, and others in similar situations.
Cheers
Amy
 
Bayview,Why not take a month off by yourself,in the bush,no communication what so ever,zone out & relax.Re-access as clarity comes back in the mean time.
Take more time off if you have to,if funds permit BUT a small price to pay:)

Also correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't the previous owner doing rather well?
If so,would it be an option to get him back on to manage for a year or longer?
Get yourself a job while the previous owner picks the customers/figures up to what they were.

Anyhow,just a suggestion...

Cheers Spades.
 
Bayview,Why not take a month off by yourself,in the bush,no communication what so ever,zone out & relax.Re-access as clarity comes back in the mean time.
Take more time off if you have to,if funds permit BUT a small price to pay:)

Also correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't the previous owner doing rather well?
If so,would it be an option to get him back on to manage for a year or longer?
Get yourself a job while the previous owner picks the customers/figures up to what they were.

Anyhow,just a suggestion...

Cheers Spades.
I took 3 weeks off in June and drove over to Kalgoorlie by myself to Reno our unit we have there, so that was sorta an escape from the world for me...no phones, no people unless I chose to interact, a worthwhile project to engage my mind and body...it was really great.

Amazingly, it is almost 2 months since that Reno and still no tenant.:mad:

I can't simply do that again - my wife is back at work 4 days a fortnight now and we need her income really badly, she is also breast feeding and we also have a 4 year old not yet in school. If I bugger off for a while to have a private moment, she is on her own and not able to work.

I have to be at work as much as possible to minimise staff costs and maximise turn over and profit...no choice.

The previous owner was doing well, but he had been there 30 odd years and had no debt, and the economy was flying along. Even during a quiet stretch he had no cashflow concerns based on those factors. Can't get him back in; he died last year.

For me; the combination is a drop off in turnover due to economic situation (the industry is really down all over - despite what the media says, and what people think, generally), an element of him leaving and customers doing the same because he's not there, and I have rent to pay as well as the business loan.

It's a perfect storm of financial shoit, currently.

The solution is really nothing else but both work our guts out now, continue to spend absolutely nothing and cut costs wherever we can, implement a number of the ideas suggested to me in another thread by all the kind folk here, and see what happens.

There are a few get-out quick solutions such as sell our PPoR, rent out our PPoR, sell the IP, sell the business (not doable as it is unprofitable currently, and we still have a $400k debt to consider on it after it is sold for next to nothing - would lose the house I would say).

The easy thing to do is sell the PPoR and clear all the debt, but still retain the business which without debt would be profitable enough, and a debt free IP.

But as I've mentioned previously, assuming we get another surge of property value increases as folk here have predicted, our PPoR is such that if it did happen, we are sitting on a property that could give us some pretty terrific cap growth over the next few years.

To miss out on this next boom after all we had been through in the last 4 years would be more than I could stand...it would be the ultimate kick in the guts for us.

You make money in property through CG...to be out of the game right now with what's predicted would be a massive failure of what we set out to do in 2001.

It's just gotta be a "hang tough for as long as possible" situation to see that CG happen, and get the reward for effort we deserve.
 
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Interesting observation;

After reading this thread and hearing of the various aspects, causes and symptoms of depression (which I am pretty sure I have), I can see that simply knowing you have it is a cure/management of sorts.

Sorta like someone being bald; once you know you are, you just go OK, and move on.

I can easily go; "Right, I've got it, I know what the pattern is and so on...let's work around it and move on."

Does this make sense?
 
There are a few get-out quick solutions such as sell our PPoR, rent out our PPoR, sell the IP, sell the business (not doable as it is unprofitable currently, and we still have a $400k debt to consider on it after it is sold for next to nothing - would lose the house I would say).

The easy thing to do is sell the PPoR and clear all the debt, but still retain the business which without debt would be profitable enough, and a debt free IP.
I don't think it's worth next to nothing, as you have stated. Granted, it's worth less than you bought it for.

But you are servicing a $400K debt out of the business for a start. Although that's a big cashflow drain, it's really a profit item as far as selling your business. Debt servicing is not a part of P&L in terms of figures for selling.

You are also drawing money out of it. Although you are working in the business, it is a benefit you are getting out of it. There is a demand for businesses where people want to "buy a job"- for possibly a better wage than they're getting now.

I know that you are putting your own money back into the business- subtract that from the previous two figures.

I'm sure there would be a reasonable, if not huge, positive balance.
 
Sorta like someone being bald; once you know you are, you just go OK, and move on.

I can easily go; "Right, I've got it, I know what the pattern is and so on...let's work around it and move on."

Does this make sense?
As they say BV, "The First Step Is Admitting You Have a Problem". So not necessarily a 'cure', but as you say once you've identified you have a problem then it is easier to manage and understand.
 
Interesting observation;

After reading this thread and hearing of the various aspects, causes and symptoms of depression (which I am pretty sure I have), I can see that simply knowing you have it is a cure/management of sorts.

Sorta like someone being bald; once you know you are, you just go OK, and move on.

I can easily go; "Right, I've got it, I know what the pattern is and so on...let's work around it and move on."

Does this make sense?

BayView, I know I don't know you but I really think you should consider going and seeing a dr and getting some medication to help you. I tried to fight depression for a while by myself, but it got so bad that I stopped being able to sleep at night. Once I got on the medication it took a while to kick in, but I did feel a lot better after a couple of weeks. I've since upped the dose a couple of times (started on 10mg, then 20mg, now 30mg) and it's working quite well. I still have my down days (like today cause I got some bad news), but overall I am feeling much better.

Worth thinking about anyway.
 
I might also be stating the obvious but self diagnosis over the internet is not a good idea. You might have something else - it could be other issues with blood sugar or anything. It could be another form of mental illness (eg bipolar). You need to get a professional diagnosis - there is no reason not to. Go see a good doctor and get to the bottom of it. Get second opinions if you don't agree / have concerns. Then you can work out how to best manage it and make an educated choice about what form of management eg medication, exercise, counselling, etc etc will work for you... and let us know how you get on!
 
I don't think it's worth next to nothing, as you have stated. Granted, it's worth less than you bought it for.

But you are servicing a $400K debt out of the business for a start. Although that's a big cashflow drain, it's really a profit item as far as selling your business. Debt servicing is not a part of P&L in terms of figures for selling.

You are also drawing money out of it. Although you are working in the business, it is a benefit you are getting out of it. There is a demand for businesses where people want to "buy a job"- for possibly a better wage than they're getting now.

I know that you are putting your own money back into the business- subtract that from the previous two figures.

I'm sure there would be a reasonable, if not huge, positive balance.
Lets say the business is on the market for $300k for sake of the argument.

For an incoming purchaser who has to borrow money to buy, the probability is good that they will be borrowing the lot.

With the business now only turning over $570k, was paying myself a wage of $80k (split half with the wife) until July 1 this year, and has since been halved, and showing last 2 years fin years' losses of about $40k nett each year, and similar but less this last fin year due to reduced expense costs...the cost of finance will be a major figure to consider in whether to buy it....it certainly would be for me if I was looking at it.

It was when I was looking at it - cost of finance, cost of Manager, rent, outgoings and so on.

Based on this, the incoming purchaser - who will be a mechanic most likely - is going to see a picture of working for only an average wage at best - unless he sacks all the staff and does it on his own.

I did have an idea that my best mechanic who is really passionate about his craft might want to take it over. His skill is amazing, and he is a terrific asset to the business, but still a rough-around-the-edges-knock-about Aussie ocker.

Like so many of the industry; he's 40 years old and no money. Mechanics as a group are largely this way....spend all their wages on stupid things like grog, smokes, tatts, cars and god knows what else that keep them broke and without assets most of their lives.

So, I could offer him a Vendor finance deal, but I reckon I know what he'd say; "The business is making no money, I don't want it at that price" or; "I'll give you the price of the equipment and stock".

I could show him that he could pay himself a decent wage - but he already has that and no responsibility or worry (other than being laid-off, I guess), so why would he bother?

Even when I bought the place - when the figures were decent - there were no buyers. The place had been on the market for well over a year, and other places much cheaper had been - still are - as well.

I admire your enthusiasm Geoff, and really appreciate what you are trying to do for me here, and you may think I'm being totally negative and pessimistic, but I'm not....just realistic - given the factors I've explained.

And, as others have suggested - selling it for a song and walking away - is probably not even possible - let alone what I would want to do - and to do so would leave me still with the debt to pay back, and no means of a decent enough income to pay it back. There is still the overdraft, the investment loan, the IP loan, our Everyday LOC is pretty maxed out, the CC's are too... we have been pouring all we have into it to chugg along.

To sell for a song (which is all that will happen) would be loss of house and bankruptcy in no time at all, I'd say.

No choice but to tough it out and try to get through, or sell the PPoR if it gets to that point.

At the moment we are treading water fully clothed...but treading water nonetheless.

The wife is taking on as many evening shifts as we can all stand, and the IP might get a tenant soon, so there's that to help.
 
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Bayview,
Have you considered offering an incentive for your vacant IP? When markets get tight here, I offer 2-4 weeks of free rent, because I know most people need to give notice, and cannot afford double rent payments.

On the depression side of it...and I have had to deal with it with Rob having it.I didn't know what the problem was because he didn't appear sad...more angry and easily irritated, than anything.

Going away by himself wouldn't change anything, because he wasn't dealing with the underlying problem.
About all it did, was give those around him some quiet time, until he returned.

He has been on medication since last Oct, and it has made a huge difference.
We still have our arguments, but instead of them lasting literally days, they are dealt with immediately.
 
Bayview,
Have you considered offering an incentive for your vacant IP? When markets get tight here, I offer 2-4 weeks of free rent, because I know most people need to give notice, and cannot afford double rent payments.
I spoke to the agent the day before yesterday, and we agreed to drop the rent again - to $310 p/w. Down from the initial $350.

There is another showing on 21/8, and apparently there are 8 parties booked to come.

We'll see how that goes, and then I might suggest your idea and see what that brings.

Thanks for that.
 
I know one of the mines in the area covers accommodation with new employees for a month, then they have to find their own. That same mine has been downsizing recently as has the Boddington Gold Mine

Hopefully you secure a tenant soon Bayview

With regards to the topic of the thread, it could also be anxiety rather than depression?
 
With regards to the topic of the thread, it could also be anxiety rather than depression?

There is a strong overlap between anxiety and depression. The environmental / life triggers that provoke one can easily provoke the other. The good news is that if it is reactive anxiety or depression, removal of the life triggers readily remedies the situation.
 
With regards to the topic of the thread, it could also be anxiety rather than depression?
Not 100% sure.

based on what's been described here - loss of interest in most things, constant anger, lethargic and so on...yep.

But, I know what's going on with it all now and am doing the old talk to self and tell self to snap out of it, swallow a cup of concrete and move on...seems to work.

I'm not suicidal or anything like that, folks.

If I was, it would have happened by now.
 
Not 100% sure.

based on what's been described here - loss of interest in most things, constant anger, lethargic and so on...yep.

But, I know what's going on with it all now and am doing the old talk to self and tell self to snap out of it, swallow a cup of concrete and move on...seems to work.

I'm not suicidal or anything like that, folks.

If I was, it would have happened by now.

You need to get on top of your sleeping patterns also. See a doctor. :) It may be worth taking a short course of sleeping tablets and move to a quiet bedroom for a while.
 
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