do the greens need a lesson in economics? news.com.au article

http://www.climatechangeinaustralia.gov.au/en/about/



I call BS on you Topper. Show us all your datasets, from all these thousands of people. I'd love to perform my own analysis.

You should also ring up these dairy farmers and assure them that it is all in their heads.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/s...-adapt-to-climate-change-20150314-1440iu.html


I've gone over all this before.

http://somersoft.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1102652&postcount=70

Most of Australia is getting wetter. Most of the world is getting wetter. increased CO2 means increased crop yields which means more food to feed everyone. That's why an extra 40 million tonnes per year of food is being grown each and every year by the worlds farmers on less land. And it will continue. The world has always been able to sustain more life in the warmer wetter periods. Life in the colder dryer times have always ment famine and disease and death.


See ya's.
 
I've gone over all this before.

http://somersoft.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1102652&postcount=70

Most of Australia is getting wetter. Most of the world is getting wetter. increased CO2 means increased crop yields which means more food to feed everyone. That's why an extra 40 million tonnes per year of food is being grown each and every year by the worlds farmers on less land. And it will continue. The world has always been able to sustain more life in the warmer wetter periods. Life in the colder dryer times have always ment famine and disease and death.


See ya's.

Sure thing buddy. Leave the science to the scientists.


What would be the effects of an increase of CO2 on agriculture and plant growth in general?

1. CO2 enhanced plants will need extra water both to maintain their larger growth as well as to compensate for greater moisture evaporation as the heat increases. Where will it come from? In many places rainwater is not sufficient for current agriculture and the aquifers they rely on are running dry throughout the Earth (1, 2).

On the other hand, as predicted by climate research, we are experiencing more intense storms with increased rainfall rates throughout much of the world. One would think that this should be good for agriculture. Unfortunately when rain falls in short, intense bursts it does not have time to soak into the ground. Instead, it quickly floods into creeks, then rivers, and finally out into the ocean, often carrying away large amounts of soil and fertilizer.

2. Unlike Nature, our way of agriculture does not self-fertilize by recycling all dead plants, animals and their waste. Instead we have to constantly add artificial fertilizers produced by energy-intensive processes mostly fed by hydrocarbons, particularly from natural gas which will eventually be depleted. Increasing the need for such fertilizer competes for supplies of natural gas and oil, creating competition between other needs and the manufacture of fertilizer. This ultimately drives up the price of food.

3. Too high a concentration of CO2 causes a reduction of photosynthesis in certain of plants. There is also evidence from the past of major damage to a wide variety of plants species from a sudden rise in CO2 (See illustrations below). Higher concentrations of CO2 also reduce the nutritional quality of some staples, such as wheat.

4. As is confirmed by long-term experiments, plants with exhorbitant supplies of CO2 run up against limited availability of other nutrients. These long term projects show that while some plants exhibit a brief and promising burst of growth upon initial exposure to C02, effects such as the "nitrogen plateau" soon truncate this benefit

5. Plants raised with enhanced CO2 supplies and strictly isolated from insects behave differently than if the same approach is tried in an otherwise natural setting. For example, when the growth of soybeans is boosted out in the open this creates changes in plant chemistry that makes these specimens more vulnerable to insects, as the illustration below shows.

6. Likely the worst problem is that increasing CO2 will increase temperatures throughout the Earth. This will make deserts and other types of dry land grow. While deserts increase in size, other eco-zones, whether tropical, forest or grassland will try to migrate towards the poles. Unfortunately it does not follow that soil conditions will necessarily favor their growth even at optimum temperatures.
 
Seems I'm arguing with a latte sipping Wikipedia expert who knows how to cut and paste.

Did you even look at the link? It shows what I said? It's all on BOM.


See ya's.
 
Seems I'm arguing with a latte sipping Wikipedia expert who knows how to cut and paste.


See ya's.

There are big words in there. Do you need someone to explain it? Is is wrong? Are you also now a plant biologist?

Tell you what I grow my own fruit, veg and eggs. We should swap farmer yarns. I must be as much of a farm expert as you are a climate scientist. I should apply for a diesel subsidy.
 
As for aquifers running dry, that's over pumping of underground water. Over use of fertilizer? Yep, whatever?

Waiting for another cut and paste?


See ya's.
 
That data I will analyse, but I want the real data from those thousands of your inbred mates.


Ha ha. When someone resorts to personal insults you know they have no response and you've won the argument. That's always been true in all facets of life. Love it..:D


See ya's.
 
It's a simple question. Where is the data from these thousands of people?


I've showed you. Simply. Already.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/data/index.shtml

There is thousands of rainfall collection sites here. Most are just normal people like myself. Happy to continue the discussion without personal insults. Insinuating myself and my neighbours as being inbreed is rather pathetic on your behalf. Shows your true character.


See ya's.
 
Seems I'm arguing with a latte sipping Wikipedia expert who knows how to cut and paste.

Did you even look at the link? It shows what I said? It's all on BOM.


See ya's.

So I am the only one us two that should stop the insults? By your very own definition you must have a weak arguement. I could have sworn you are a polymath. I make no bones about my poor diplomatic and interpersonal skills. Whats your excuse? Or is this typical right wing do as I say rubbish?

By the way I drink double espressos with a touch of sugar.
 
Actually it is climate change. Changes will make it colder in places.
The whole thrust of this mania which started some dozen or so years ago was only mentioned as Global Warming.

Climate Change was not used at all.

I remember it quite well; Al Gore, Tim Flannery and all the noisy others...GW! GW! CO2 is causing the world to heat up! What the hell are we gunna do?

And of course; over a period of time; it was seen that the effects of theses predictions and statements was at best minimal; so the term Climate Change was added and has become the new catch-phrase.....why was that?

The highlighted part above is a clue.

Hell; even just yesterday, one of the announcers on ABC Radio (very very strong on the whole GW/CC mania) asked one professor of the latest Cyclone in Vanuatu was a result of CC.

Now, I ask you...seriously?

It's a frickin' cyclone; happens every single year in that region and has done for a gabillion years, and this knucklehead is wondering if it is CC?

You should also ring up these dairy farmers and assure them that it is all in their heads.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/so...14-1440iu.html
What is interesting is how the article starts off as a CC focus...drier and warmer, then further down the words GW are added in.

Both TC and I live in Victoria - he is a farmer, and keeps his own rainfall charts by the way.

Me; at the bottom of the Mornington Peninsula, on the Bay; about on a par lattitude with many parts of Gippsland and the Bellarine Peninsula, and I can promise you; the summers are not getting longer. They are not getting hotter.

This summer for example was absolutely lame. The "warm weather" didn't really get cracking to well into January - about the middle, and we are now in mid-March with narry a 30+ degree day in sight.

Of course; this is only a blip in an upward trend, right?
 
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I call BS on you Topper. Show us all your datasets, from all these thousands of people. I'd love to perform my own analysis.
TC, can you please drag out those rainfall charts you showed us here a few years ago, and put LibGS out of his misery, please?
 
Your aggreate graph is misleading. It uses data all over Australia, but the BOM clearly states that "Rainfall has increased in northern Australia since the 1970s and decreased in south-east and south-west Australia". The map of Australia graphic supports this. Lightweight.

It does not take a maths degree to understand that if you have one foot in a bucket of ice and another in a bucket of boiling water, on average you're perfectly comfortable.
 
My farm is in Northern NSW by the way. It's gotten much wetter where I live since 1938.


See ya's.
Oh. :confused:

I thought you were at Mt.Macedon?

Who lives there, then?

It was their personal charts from approx last 100 years (from father and grandfather as well), and they showed absolutely no pattern whatsoever of rainfall - either more or less.

It was random - some years lots, some years bugger-all, some years about normal.

But importantly; no trend in either direction to speak of.
 
Your aggreate graph is misleading. It uses data all over Australia, but the BOM clearly states that "Rainfall has increased in northern Australia since the 1970s and decreased in south-east and south-west Australia". The map of Australia graphic supports this. Lightweight.

It does not take a maths degree to understand that if you have one foot in a bucket of ice and another in a bucket of boiling water, on average you're perfectly comfortable.


Southern Australia rainfall. So we all agree it's getting wetter in the north?




I fully realise that BOM continually tells us that the south is drying out. But all their info doesn't show it. Someone probably needs to get on there and make some adjustments do you think?


See ya's.
 
No effort at all. The Internet is wonderful, it allows you to get actual quotes from real scientists, real scientific data, and real scientific results. You don't even have to make up stuff, you should try it sometime.

I did, and I also note you didn't comment on it.
 
Southern Australia rainfall. So we all agree it's getting wetter in the north?




I fully realise that BOM continually tells us that the south is drying out. But all their info doesn't show it. Someone probably needs to get on there and make some adjustments do you think?


See ya's.
I think this was the chart I saw a few years ago.

Look; even if the temp was rising, and even if the Climate was changing; it's sooo incremental in the wider scheme of things that we are turning into Chicken Little about it all.

I mean; the planet is covers by 75% water - which is the largest contributor to CO2 apparently, and we stupid humans reckon we are affecting it...and it doesn't even affect the temps.

The whole thing is a futile beat-up.
 
1. CO2 enhanced plants will need extra water both to maintain their larger growth as well as to compensate for greater moisture evaporation as the heat increases. Where will it come from?
1. Desalination plants (we have one ready to go).

2. Dams. (of course; the Greens will block every attempt, because an orange spotted, 6 toed frog was seen there and has to be protected).

3. Re-routing of excess rain run-off from places like QLD and Gippsland where it never stops raining. And don't forget NSW where TC lives - it's raining even more than ever up there, apparently.

4. Additional sewerage treatment plants - the population is growing so we will need more of them.
 
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