Doctor's Certificate for EVERY day off sick

[bawley]

My daughter was sent home mid afternoon (Monday) from work sick (tonsilitis). She works in childcare. She has to provide a doctor's certificate for every day she is off sick!!!

Went to Dr next am and said she would need a couple of days - he over ruled her and insisted she have the week off (she didn't want this) and when she tried to return to work on the Thursday was sent home again needing CLEARANCE from the Dr.

She goes to a homeopath regularly for treatment and went on the Monday evening. But still had to satisfy the beaurocracy - wasted the Dr's time on Tuesday and her money and medicare fund. Tore up the unwanted script for antibiotics and was quite well enough to return to work on the Thursday. This sceanrio makes me sooooo mad

Do you all have these draconian work conditions??

I understand the need to monitor workers comp. injuries etc, but a couple of days off for sore throat, cold etc., stomach upset - it is inappropriate to be compelled to visit the GP. Also with GP shortage in Canberra it is possible that you only need 1 day off but can't get an appointment for a couple of days

Any strategies for getting around the system???

In health (knock on wood)
Bawley

 

[Merovingian]

Any strategies for getting around the system???

Forgery?

I can understand the situation from the childcare place's point of view — for instance, I wouldn't want to be responsible for getting 30 young kids infected with the flu.

And yes, the whole "spend 2 minutes and $40 for a piece of paper to say 'I Is Sick'" does suck...

 

[Mrs Bird]

Hi Bawley,

It is now a government directive that you are not allowed to return to work before the prescribed time on the medical certificate. This is for all government employees. Apparently you are not covered by insurance if you return early.

I dont know if this applies for the private industry. The childcare centre was only following guidelines. Hope this explains why they did not allow her to return to work.

Mrs Bird

 

[bawley]

Hi Merov. $40!! $50 going rate in Canberra, bulk billing just doesn't exist anymore. And for a "hello sniff sniff I've god a cold and need a cerdificate for work" I think this is highway robbery. Perhaps this could be a role for the "nurse practitioner" , free up the gp's time to spend more time with people who may be depressed or suffering serious illness.

Hi Mrs Bird - yes I understand the rationale behind the return to work protocol. I just think it is inappropriate to apply this rule to things like, colds, flu. Especially for someone who has only 10 days sick leave per year. It's a joke when teachers sick leave is substantially more generous and yet their working year is so much shorter than that of a child care professional. Inequities everywhere in the system.

Bawley

 

[Aceyducey]

Last time I was sick I couldn't find a doctor who'd see me to issue a certificate.

Best solution for your daughter Bawley, leave the child care profession - it's underpaid anyway.

We'll only see reform if enough people leave it.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[Merovingian]

Hi Merov. $40!! $50 going rate in Canberra, bulk billing just doesn't exist anymore.

Well I haven't gone to a doctor for at least a few years now.

I just checked with someone who actually goes to a doctor, and they say it's $47 nowadays... Bulk billing also doesn't exist at this particular place.

 

[bawley]

Yeah Acey woefully underpaid. After 3 years tertiary study she earns $17 per hour - is responsible for the babies and other staff. She loves it, has always wanted to work in this area. She writes reports at home after hours and meets with parents after hours. ( a 38 hour week and 4 weeks annual leave unlike teachers) but she is going back to Uni part time because she knows the career structure and fair salary is just not there.

It always makes us laugh when politicians promise more childcare places because there just isn't the staff. Akin to more hospital beds - where are the nurses going to come from. I believe they have commissioned MORE studies into the hospital crises - more dollars to "experts" but you can bet not better working conditions or salary for the actual people who look after the patients. Average age of reg. nurse in Australia 49 and increasing!

Chief Minister however gets a pay rise of $26,000 p.a.

pretty depressing

Bawley

 

[bawley]

Well I haven't gone to a doctor for at least a few years now.

I just checked with someone who actually goes to a doctor, and they say it's $47 nowadays... Bulk billing also doesn't exist at this particular place.

Here's to your continuing good health Merovingian.

I haven't had to visit a doctor since I finished paid work in 2001 - haven't needed a certificate for work

Cheers Bawley

 

[Aceyducey]

I haven't had to visit a doctor since I finished paid work in 2001 - haven't needed a certificate for work

Bawley,

You've clearly got a much more lenient partner than me!

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[bawley]

Bawley,

You've clearly got a much more lenient partner than me!

Cheers,

Aceyducey

Lenient - having or showing a merciful or tolerant nature.

Yup that'll do me.

Bawley

 

[perky29]

My wife does Family day Care (as I have mentioned before). She is like a contractor - no sick leave or rec leave etc.. gets paid $3.65 per child per hour (so 3 kids, you get the drift) is very lowly paid.
Why does she do it? Well at first it was because 3 years ago my job in IT was looking very shaky...and we owed over 200k in bad debt at the time. Also she thought that working with kids would be enjoyable. Fortunately we will have that bad debt gone sometime in August (we will have a ceromonial "kicking out the mortgage beast" at this time, the kids love the idea )....and my wife will give up the family day care in late September).

She is now really quite fed up with the whole business. There are new rules coming in in October (on top of the many many rules now) which are even more draconian than those mentioned above - she may as well be running a day care centre herself

 

[bawley]

My wife does Family day Care (as I have mentioned before). She is like a contractor - no sick leave or rec leave etc.. gets paid $3.65 per child per hour (so 3 kids, you get the drift) is very lowly paid.
Why does she do it? Well at first it was because 3 years ago my job in IT was looking very shaky...and we owed over 200k in bad debt at the time. Also she thought that working with kids would be enjoyable. Fortunately we will have that bad debt gone sometime in August (we will have a ceromonial "kicking out the mortgage beast" at this time, the kids love the idea )....and my wife will give up the family day care in late September).

She is now really quite fed up with the whole business. There are new rules coming in in October (on top of the many many rules now) which are even more draconian than those mentioned above - she may as well be running a day care centre herself

Well done your wife for sticking with Family Day Care for so long and for sooooo little reimbursement. Yeah if there is a high attrition rate I guess the rule makers will commission another study and lay out a whole another set of rules to replace or add to the already cumbersome ones

And congratulations on getting rid of the bad debt - celebrate hugely.

Cheers Bawley

 

[Lplate]

Last time I was sick I couldn't find a doctor who'd see me to issue a certificate.

Best solution for your daughter Bawley, leave the child care profession - it's underpaid anyway.

We'll only see reform if enough people leave it.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

Acey
That was sage advice.

Over the years I have seen many people 'tough it out' in situations that did not suit them and this included perceived favouritism, unresolved conflict or unfair treatment. I cannot recall any who did better by staying put.

If the current job doesn't suit, immediately set sights elsewhere and take action. Find another light on a hill to head for before things get worse.

LPlate

 

[see_change]

Medical certificates ....ahh , the joy of them .

Yes clearance certificates can be a pain , though I feel very sorry for the employer of one of my patients ( aged about 20 ) .

Patient had dislocated his shoulder ( second time he had done so ) and went back to work without a clearance. Unfortunately ( depending on your view point ) the following day my patient dislocated his shoulder again while at his work place, thus aggravating a preexisting problem.... . Because he had aggravated a pre-existing complaint while at work , it becomes workers compensation.

Now this is actually good for the patient. He didn't have private insurance so he would have faced a long ( maybe 1-2 years ) wait before he could have had the appropriate surgery with a minimal amount of rehab afterwards. As it is now workers compensation ( accepted by the insurance company ) he will get rapid treatment by a good surgeon ( rather than the registrar in which ever unit he can get into ) and will have his prolonged rehabilitation , physio , and retraining if appropriate paid for by the insurance company.

Not so good for his employer of about one month.

Bet that employer will want a clearance the next time around.......

But what happens if he had come to me for a clearance ? Legal, if that person is physically fit for the job at the time I see them , regardless of their past history ( I've checked that up legally when doing pre-employment medicals , so people who get rejected on the basis of "medicals" on the bsis of past injuries have a legal case if they were so inclined....) I have to pass them as fit for work.

So I would have passed him fit for work , and then when he injured himself, who would have sued me .... The patient , the employer or the insurance company .......?

I know this has nothing to do with tonsillitis , but what would have happened if she'd gone back to work and passed her tonsillitis on to several of the children , who'd developed tonsillitis , and then one of those had had an anaphylactic reaction to their antibiotics...

Sorry , bit of a rant .

See Change

 

[Macca]

There was an encouraging story in Sydney Telegraph on Saturday. In the careers section they interviewed a 32 year old guy who had just finished his auto mechanics and auto electrician apprenticeships. He did them both at the same time because with todays cars he thinks it is better....WHY at 32 ?

He was stuck in a dead end job, had always likes cars, so decided to do his mechanic apprenticeship and then decided on both.

Worked an extra job every Saturday for 3 years to help feed his wife and 2 kids.

Now fully qualified and his pay packet is much healthier !!!

 

[bawley]

Medical certificates ....ahh , the joy of them .


I know this has nothing to do with tonsillitis , but what would have happened if she'd gone back to work and passed her tonsillitis on to several of the children , who'd developed tonsillitis , and then one of those had had an anaphylactic reaction to their antibiotics...

Sorry , bit of a rant .

See Change

Rant away See Change, good for the soul.

I can empathise with the practitioner's caution re return to work certificates pertaining to injuries such as, back injuries, repetitive strain injury (or whatever terminology is currently used) etc. - that can lead to re-injury and litigation.

But the above scenario tonsilitis resulting in anaphylaxis - does that mean that every employee working in a nursing home or equivalent who has a heavy cold needs to be away from work for at least a week to a fortnight in case a resident catches the virus - secondary infection - pneumonia - antibiotics - anaphylaxis. How far do we take this?????

Your scenario could just as easily be a susceptible child catching something from a sibling and requiring antibiotics. Anaphylaxis results - WHO DO WE BLAME! Terrible outcome, but that's life. (not meant flippantly).

Bit of a rant here too

Cheers Bawley

 

[geoffw]

I had an employee who, during the especially busy lunch rush, told me that she was coughing up blood, and could not continue work. I told her to go home immediately- I had to work in the Subway in her place.

She came back in the evening to eat. I asked her how seh was- I was concerned.

She told me that she was really tired. She had been umpiring softball all afternoon.

I ask for sick certificates much more often now.

 

[bawley]

Is she still employed by you Geoff?

 

[see_change]

- WHO DO WE BLAME! Terrible outcome, but that's life. (not meant flippantly).

Bit of a rant here too

Cheers Bawley

I think that's my underlying concern.

People want solutions in any walk of life , whether it's medical , building or what ever , but no one can guarantee anything. If we waited untill we new things were perfectly safe, then they would have been superceeded by something else, but we wouldn't know whether that was safe either.....yet.

Obviously there has to be basic safety info provided but when do we stop.

An interesting example is Vioxx, which has been recently taken off the market.

I have many patients muttering about this as it was a very effective medication , and to the best of my knowledge ( I may be wrong ) the evidence on which it was taken off the market , is far from conclusive, and was drawn from people taking higher than recommended doses.....

From what I understand ( and again this may be wrong , but I did hear this on ABC...) is that the evidence that raised concerns came from a study that the Drug company was conducting , to try and expand the range of indications for it's use. Unfortunatley ( from their point of view ) this back fired big time for them and what was a market leader is now of the market .

So what is the end result....

If a company has a successful drug, they will not be conducting any more research on it , just in case they find something they don't want to find. Once there was that doubt raised then purely for legal reasons they had to take it off the market.

Obviously whether this is a good or bad thing depends on your view point....

See Change

 

[geoffw]

Is she still employed by you Geoff?

No.

But that was due to her leaving for other reasons. She had been employed by the people I bought the business from, and was no longer subject to the three month probation period of a new employee.

I do have one employee who is extremely slow. I don't want to keep her employed, as she costs me, per job performed, about three times as much as many other employees. She is casual, so I can reduce her hours, or not include her on the roster from time to time. But she is still an employee.
She called last week to ask about her roster. I told her that she was due to come in on the Saturday. She told me that it was not possible- her grandmother had a stroke, and was dying. She could not work on that day. Fair enough.

But the- "She will be dead by Sunday. I can come in and work then".