Feeling shafted by ANZ - need some advice

[Later]

2 weeks ago we had a meeting at the bank to restructure a loan (650K) which was coming off a fixed rate and we wanted to change from P & I to IO. This was actioned that day and we where told that we now had to wait on the paperwork to arrive which should be at our branch the following Thurs/Fri.

Last Tuesday I decided that rather than leaving that loan on variable we where going to fix it as well as do a 50% fixed/50% variable on our PPOR which is also with anz. I emailed the girl at the bank that we had been dealing with and got no response so emailed her again (and marked it urgent) on the wednesday only to receive an out of office email with an email address for another staff member who would deal with urgent queries. I forwarded the email onto the other staff member with very specific instructions about wanting them actioned that day and specifically wanting the 2yr fixed rate of 5.79%.

Late wednesday afternoon I got a phone call from the girl saying she had received my emails and was working on it. She then called me back again to say that it was done. The 650K loan was fixed at 5.79% and the 50/50 split was done as well. I then queried if there was any paperwork to be signed and she said no it was all done.

Today I received a call from the girl who normally deals with mortgages to say that the other girl had done everything, however, the paperwork had not yet arrived and by the way the rates went up on Fri and did we still want to go ahead with fixing on the new rate. Obviously I argued the point that I had been told that it was all done but was told that regardless I still had to wait on paperwork. Apparently even if a rate lock had been mentioned (which it hadn't) that I would still have had to wait on that paperwork to arrive and it wouldn't have arrived prior to the rates going up on the Fri.

We have always had a fairly good relationship with the anz and this particular staff member but to say that I feel completely shafted would be an understatement. I have told her that I am really annoyed with what has happened and have asked her to go away and speak to someone higher in regards to us getting the old 2 year fixed rate of 5.79%. She has told me that she doesn't think that anz will come to the party but she will discuss it with them.

Where should I go from here? Keep arguing it or is it a lost cause? I currently have PPOR and two investment properties with anz and then another investment property with colonial. Is it worth threatening to move everything to colonial?

I would love some advice from those of you who regulary negiotate with the banks.

 

[Leikela]

Where should I go from here? Keep arguing it or is it a lost cause? I currently have PPOR and two investment properties with anz and then another investment property with colonial. Is it worth threatening to move everything to colonial?

I would love some advice from those of you who regulary negiotate with the banks.

Absolutely threaten, and continue to push and push for the rate you were initially going to get. I was recently in a fight with my bank (different circumstances, sounds like yours is more legitimate than mine), trying to get a certain interest rate. They kept saying no, and I kept saying not good enough, to the point of submitting a complaint with the ombudsman. They were going to take months to get back to me but I thought it might be enough to make the bank give me what I wanted, so I told the bank I had done this and basically told them that I had been a happy customer for many years until recently and would take all my business elsewhere. They finally caved and gave me what I wanted (there was a fair bit more to it than that and a lot of correspondence but we were talking 1% difference so I was going to fight it!). My point is, you have to fight for things these days, don't let them off lightly.

I don't know what the normal situation is when fixing rates, as I've only ever done this once but my bank honoured the rate of the day I verbally asked for it. The paperwork came a few weeks later, and rates had gone up in that time, but they said they lock it in at the day I ask for it, not the day I finalise the paperwork.

 

[BRUTE]

In the last 3 years i have taken ANZ to the Banking Ombudsmen 3 times regarding PPOR and Investment Loans. On each occasion they have relented and twice have paid me for the joy of having my business. Make sure that you contact ANZ CRC on 1800 805 154, be aware of their process of resolving customer complaints and their Customer Advocate. Log all of the dates and times of your contacts regarding the loan. Don't bother continuing with your current line of attack, start the process.

 

[Rolf Latham]

Certainly worth a look with the outside resolution service

This is why some lenders now insist on the borrower signing a I do / do not want a rate lock for this app form.

ta
rolf

 

[Piston Broke]

I still don't understand why you would email anyone at a bank.
Get off your lazy butts and go talk to them face to face and get it sorted on the spot.
Why on earth would you believe there would be nothing to sign?
I completed that process in 20mins in person at the bank, after one phone call.
If you want personal relationships, and personal service you need to get off your personal backside and talk person to person.
That's why it's called "personal".

edit:
I forgot to mention it pays back many many times to do this in my experience.

 

[Strannik]

emails leave a paper trail
face to face talk leaves nothing and counts for nothing, unless there are actually papers signed. just as good as a phone call

i'm not sure that' you'll be able to walk into the bank say i want my loans changed, and have all the paperwork done in 20 mins

 

[Witzl]

ummm... with commonwealth bank, i was able to lock my loans over the phone within 10 minutes, and was given the fixed rate of the day that i made the call (which happened to be the friday they annouced that rates were going up on monday).

I hope everything works out with your fight against ANZ.

 

[vbplease]

emails leave a paper trail
face to face talk leaves nothing and counts for nothing, unless there are actually papers signed. just as good as a phone call

I had this debate with someone the other day.. Phone calls are recorded but I think it's at the discretion of the company whether they will retrieve it and come clean.. It has worked for me in the past. I've disconnected a electricity account over the phone, then months later received another bill. They later retrieved the phone conversation and cancelled the bill.

 

[Bradsdad]

The issue here is that ANZ don't need anything signed now for a straight Variable to Fix scenario. To split though it is required.
Unless you weren't made aware of the lock rate option the bank should wear the cost.

From your orginal post the staff member may have gotten themselves a little confused as to when they required something to be signed and when they didn't. If you have been given misinformation from a bank they should wear the cost. To resolve, explain the circumstances and if you don't get a suitable outcome in a set timeframe (say 3-5 days)mention nicely to them that you will lodge your complaint with the ombudsman. You'll probably see a different level of urgency. If they still don't come to the party lodge your complaint.


Regards
Steve

 

[Piston Broke]

i'm not sure that' you'll be able to walk into the bank say i want my loans changed, and have all the paperwork done in 20 mins

I made one phone call and did the next day.
I posted it on this forum too (after the paperwork was mailed to me).
I was talking generically, but how can you expect "personal service" if you don't go there in person? Over the phone & emails just don't cut imo.
I can still get plenty finance much easier than most people out there by just walking in and being recognized as the person they been doing business for years with for years, and they do still have some leeway.

 

[Strannik]

in my eyes personal service is when you deal with the same person all the time and they take good care of you. it doesn't necessarily have to include physical presence (although it does help to develop the relationship).

the whole idea of personal service is that you can call the person and tell him "heay i want this and this" and he'll do it for you.

 

[wylie]

I agree that physically going to a branch is no more "personal" than the email or phone call. And totally agree that with email you have a paper trail. Phone call means you have nothing but your memory of what was said. They may have a recording, but you don't have it.

They don't give a rats about you, whether they are staring at your face or speaking into a phone.

We fought for a rate quoted over the phone, which was later mysteriously increased. They backed down and gave us the rate promised over the phone. I had my broker sitting beside me when the phone call happened. He made sure we got what we were promised so it was easy. I feel quite sure we would have had a much bigger battle without our broker.

Fight it .

 

[Spectre]

ummm... with commonwealth bank, i was able to lock my loans over the phone within 10 minutes, and was given the fixed rate of the day that i made the call (which happened to be the friday they annouced that rates were going up on monday).

I hope everything works out with your fight against ANZ.

Just on a side note - cba announced yesterday they arent giving advance notice of rate changes effective yesterday (which I now see Rolf posted a thread on yesterday...)

 

[Later]

Thanks for your comments - you have given me the confidence to fight it.

Piston Broke - I understand what you are saying about face to face service but there where a number of reasons why I couldn't actually get into the branch. Even if I had, there still was no-one there all week who was qualified to deal with mortgages so I doubt I would have got a different result. There is also a minimum one week waiting period for appointments at our branch with the mortgage person. I have been dealing with her for years and we have had many discussions face to face, over the phone and via email so there was no reason to think that it was not possible to deal this way. I also like the paper trail with emails.

Another question for you all - I live in a remote town and the paperwork takes 5-7 working days to arrive. Is this normal or can most city branches get the paperwork straight away? It amazes me in the days of computers and emails that it takes this long.

 

[Piston Broke]

Even if I had, there still was no-one there all week who was qualified to deal with mortgages so I doubt I would have got a different result. There is also a minimum one week waiting period for appointments at our branch with the mortgage person.

WOW!! What makes you think they want your business? Unless they're the only bank in town, why bother. Infact a good broker would do much of it straight away and shop around for a better deal, as most ain't that busy atm.

I have been dealing with her for years and we have had many discussions face to face, over the phone and via email so there was no reason to think that it was not possible to deal this way. I also like the paper trail with emails.

I think not a week goes by that I hear "I sent an email and never heard back" to banks, REAs, accountants lawyers etc etc, So I call, and keep calling, or go elsewhere, then make sure they know why i went elsewhere.

Another question for you all - I live in a remote town and the paperwork takes 5-7 working days to arrive. Is this normal or can most city branches get the paperwork straight away? It amazes me in the days of computers and emails that it takes this long.

I signed the paperwork in the office, took a copy home and they mailed it out to me in about the same time.

 

[HiEquity]

I had a similar experience with a different bank but in reverse. They promised a break cost over the phone, saying I had 7 days to accept it and then when I came back after 5 days to accept they said the break cost had gone up! All over the phone with their call centre...

Went straight to their complaints section, they dug out the call records and gave me what I had been promised. No need to go to the ombudsman in that case although I would have if necessary!

I've had better results over the phone than in the branch actually - I find I build relationships and then those people move on...

 

[Later]

After being told on Tuesday that I would get a phone call back on Wednesday in regards to the matter, then hearing nothing, I contacted the bank this morning to be told that the information had been passed on and the internal revue process and was under way and that they had specifically requested more information and that the girl who had told me it was all done was away till monday so couldn't be questioned till then.

I explained how furious I was at what had happened and told her that the only thing I would accept as a resolution was that the rate be honoured and I wanted it resolved asap. She then bought up the rate lock and me paying for it - at which time I told her that I felt that because I had been told that it was "all done", verbally confirmed to me that the rate was locked in and that I didn't feel that I should have to pay the rate lock and that it was just another way of the bank retrieving money from me.

The Mortgage specialist told me that she thought this was what I was after!!! (Yes - I would really like to just hand over $2300 for a staff stuff up!!!!???) She then asked me to email her exactly what it was that I was wanting so that she could forward it on to the Homeloans department. Here is what I am going to send - any feedback would be appreciated before I send it.

Following our conversation that we have just had I thought I would clarify the circumstances and the resolution I would like following the attempted re-negiotation of my loans.

I feel I am entitled to the 5.79% 2 year fixed rate on the merging and changing to Interest Only for 5 years on loans ********& ********and also the 5.79% 2 year fixed rate on a 50% variable, 50% fixed split loan for ********.

There are a number of reasons for this.
1. I was told by (name withheld) on the Wednesday 12/8/09 that as per my very specific email that it had "all been done". I even questioned her at the time as to whether there was any paperwork to be completed and she told me no, it was all done. I don't feel that there is any room for interpretation in these comments and that there is any reason that I should have thought anything different than the fact that I was under the impression the rate was verbally confirmed.
2. In my original email to you, and that was also forwarded onto (name withheld), I had specifically stated that I was wanting the 2 year fixed rate of 5.79%
3. Never at any time was a rate lock discussed or the fact that if the rates moved I would no longer be eligble for that rate.
4. I feel that it is ANZ responsibility to have the person dealing with mortgages suitably trained and it should not be at my detriment.
5. My husband and I have been customers of ANZ for approximately 10 years and currently hold 3 mortgages with you.

I am extremely disappointed in what has transpired. In the event that ANZ can not resolve this issue in a suitable and timely manner I will continue with the formal complaints process and will consider moving my current and future business elsewhere.

 

[Bradsdad]

After being told on Tuesday that I would get a phone call back on Wednesday in regards to the matter, then hearing nothing, I contacted the bank this morning to be told that the information had been passed on and the internal revue process and was under way and that they had specifically requested more information and that the girl who had told me it was all done was away till monday so couldn't be questioned till then.

I explained how furious I was at what had happened and told her that the only thing I would accept as a resolution was that the rate be honoured and I wanted it resolved asap. She then bought up the rate lock and me paying for it - at which time I told her that I felt that because I had been told that it was "all done", verbally confirmed to me that the rate was locked in and that I didn't feel that I should have to pay the rate lock and that it was just another way of the bank retrieving money from me.

The Mortgage specialist told me that she thought this was what I was after!!! (Yes - I would really like to just hand over $2300 for a staff stuff up!!!!???) She then asked me to email her exactly what it was that I was wanting so that she could forward it on to the Homeloans department. Here is what I am going to send - any feedback would be appreciated before I send it.

Following our conversation that we have just had I thought I would clarify the circumstances and the resolution I would like following the attempted re-negiotation of my loans.

I feel I am entitled to the 5.79% 2 year fixed rate on the merging and changing to Interest Only for 5 years on loans ********& ********and also the 5.79% 2 year fixed rate on a 50% variable, 50% fixed split loan for ********.

There are a number of reasons for this.
1. I was told by (name withheld) on the Wednesday 12/8/09 that as per my very specific email that it had "all been done". I even questioned her at the time as to whether there was any paperwork to be completed and she told me no, it was all done. I don't feel that there is any room for interpretation in these comments and that there is any reason that I should have thought anything different than the fact that I was under the impression the rate was verbally confirmed.
2. In my original email to you, and that was also forwarded onto (name withheld), I had specifically stated that I was wanting the 2 year fixed rate of 5.79%
3. Never at any time was a rate lock discussed or the fact that if the rates moved I would no longer be eligble for that rate.
4. I feel that it is ANZ responsibility to have the person dealing with mortgages suitably trained and it should not be at my detriment.
5. My husband and I have been customers of ANZ for approximately 10 years and currently hold 3 mortgages with you.

I am extremely disappointed in what has transpired. In the event that ANZ can not resolve this issue in a suitable and timely manner I will continue with the formal complaints process and will consider moving my current and future business elsewhere.

Keep the extremely disappointed bit and then............

In the event that a satisfactory resolution if forthcoming withing 48 working hours, I will be forwarding my complaint to the the Banking Industry Ombudsman for reveiw.

 

[Evachange]

Just on the "Banking Industry Ombudsman" it costs the bank each time the BIO talks to the bank, as the complaint go's up a level so does the cost to the bank, in fact it can get to levels such as $20K.

I used to work for one of the major banks as a business coach and used to train staff on this.

Use the BIO to your advantage as banks hate bad press and hate paying the BIO, they pay even if its not the banks fault.

Alex

 

[Later]

Aaarrgggghhh - Banks!

Finally the resolutions team has got back to me and they have offered me the original rate for 2 years fixed as long as I pay the rate lock (which is apparently $1200). I have told them that if I pay the rate lock I won't be walking away a happy customer and asked them to go away and consider removing the rate lock fee.

And get this - their reasoning for charging the rate lock is that if they take themselves back to the 12th August and the staff member had done everything correctly, that is what I would have been offered and wait for it....... he said to me that since I had other loans with anz I should have known that there was paperwork coming! (even after I questioned the staff member specifically about signing paperwork when she told me it was all done and "no" there wasn't any)

When I asked what he thought the Ombudsman would decide on the matter when I lodge a complaint with them he said he had no idea and wasn't able to comment on that but tried to talk me out of it by saying how long it would take to go through the process with the Ombudsman.

I am now expecting another call from them this afternoon - so will see what transpires.