First time at the tribunal

jingo

jingo

Hi everyone,

Well, this is the first time we have had to take a tenant to the tribunal. The property in question is currently being managed by a new PM. The old PM let too many issues slip and did not chase the rent properly. Anyway, the tenant is in arrears, and has not paid rent since 15 March.

The date set for the hearing is 4 May. The tenant from what I understand from the PM has been issued with a letter to vacate, and has been sent the date of the hearing. I will not be in attendance at the hearing, (the new PM will represent us), but I would like to hear from investors who have experienced this situation before. What I should expect?

Is it likely the tenant will be made to leave? Is it possible the judge will give her an opportunity to pay and complete her lease which expires in August?
Other possibilities?

We have insurance which covers rental default and damage, so am not too concerned.

Would love some advice,

Regards Jason.
 
Welcome to the wonderful world of IP.

I've evicted two tenants from two properties. I've also had a few more tribunal hearings.

Tenants (depending on the state, and depending on the person who is conducting the hearing) are usually give a few chances. They will frequently be given the opportunity to enter into a payment plan to catch up with arrears.

If you are able to get the tenant out, it will be a bonus. Don't be surprised if you can't

It took three goes to get rid of my worst tenant.
 
Hello Jingo

I'm really interested in the whole tribunal process. Would you be kind enough to keep us posted on your experience in this instance? I'm sure others would be interested as well.

Cheers
 
It may be a little different in NSW. In the one I experienced the PM's strategy was to look flexible.

The magistrate asked if we would mediate which we said we would try. We went to a side room, could not come to a resolution, return to the hearing and got the order for eviction.
 
I did attend one tribunal process myself.

It was like a mini court- but no lawyers, no fancy room. Just a basic room with movable tables and chairs.

The process was fairly quick.

If the tenant won, they were given conditions.

If the landlord won, eviction took place.

But eviction was never the first option.
 
Thanks for the replies.

The property is in Victoria. My PM really hopes that the tenant does "do a runner" before the hearing. I can't understand why tenants are given so many chances. If I don't pay my power bill the power company won't hesitate to cut it off after one warning letter!

The other thing my PM mentioned was that the tenants name would be entered into the data base for troublesome tenants. According to her the tenant would not so much as be able to get a mobile phone in the future.

Does anyone know if this incident will affect my tenant's credit history?
 
I think it's called TICAA (or similar- not sure of spelling).

I had an employee with TICAA trouble. He could only rent through a private landlord (a disadvantage for self managing landlords). And he had trouble with bank accounts, mobile phones and the like.

"Had an employee"- past tense. Yesterday it was present tense. He jumped before he was pushed :D
 
geoffw said:
I think it's called TICAA (or similar- not sure of spelling).

I had an employee with TICAA trouble. He could only rent through a private landlord (a disadvantage for self managing landlords). And he had trouble with bank accounts, mobile phones and the like.

"Had an employee"- past tense. Yesterday it was present tense. He jumped before he was pushed :D
Click to expand...

Mmmmm, seems like there is a pattern there Geoff! Some people just can't seem to get it together!!

I am glad to hear that there is some consequence though. If such people experience a few difficulties down the track, perhaps, just perhaps it may make them be a little more careful in the future in honouring their commitments. But then again, who knows??
 
The tenant I evicted was very well aware of the consequences, and was extremly upset about what happened to him (despite two previous warnings).

The ex employee was always blaming other people and other circumstances. It was NEVER his fault.
 
The PM hopes the tenant will do a runner ?
When a PM hopes a tenant will do a runner, then the PM should take the blame for choosing such a bad tenant. Doesn't matter if it was a previous PM, assuming it's still the same REA.
Tenancy laws and Tribunals are complex. However, in your case, tenants make it easier for landlords to be granted termination of tenancy and fast possession at the first hearing if the tenant either abandons the property or makes no effort to pay any more rent before the hearing date.
PMs want to arrive at a hearing in a strong position.
It can help if the PM continues to send rent demands to the tenant up to the hearing date. The tenant cannot say there were no opportunities to pay,
or make promises to pay when they have already not taken the available opportunities.
Tribunal hearings require PMs experienced in Tribunal matters, otherwise Govt funded Tenants' Advocates will eat them for morning tea and your losses will increase.
The best PMs are adept at choosing good tenants, managing the marginal ones, and vetting the bad ones, and good PMs spend little time in Tribunals mopping up mistakes.
cheers
crest133
 
We always have the tenant set up a repayment schedule.Have the tenant sign it. Have had some tenants do this several times. Then when you need to go the tribunal, you can prove that you bent over backwards to try to get this tenant to pay.Never had them say no to us.
You really should go to the tribunal, at least once.

One of the best pieces of advice I read here was to check the garbage after a tenant leaves and to keep all the mail that comes after a tenant moves out. We have gotten so much valuable info, when we went to the sheriff to guarnish their wages.

Good luck
 
Hi Jingo

Is your property in Frankston? My PM has made many appointments for a tribunal hearing only for the tenant to make the rental payment. Some tenants seem to know the law very well and make the payment that will then prevent a tribunal hearing. They then delay the next payment, you issue an order to leave, make an appointment at the Tribunal and then they pay again. They continue this type of behaviour for a while.

That may be why the PM hopes they abandon.
 
At least in NSW (unsure about Vic) if the rent is late enough for the issue of a termination notice, it is a serious breach of the lease and the Residential Tenancies Act which allows for the PM to request a hearing and request orders that the tenant pay the rent on time for the next 6 months and in default be brought automatically back to the Tribunal (without any requirement of the issue of another termination notice) to answer to the Tribunal as to why their tenancy should not be terminated for breaching the Tribunal's order to pay rent on time as per the lease.

It may take 2 hearings but they either get the message or get terminated.
PMs should insist that Tribunals abide by defaults and orders or not issue them and not make frivolous threats. Sometimes Tribunal members need to be reminded to enforce the Act otherwise their decision can be appealed by the PM and reheard. Slack PMs who can't play hardball don't belong in the job.
cheers
crest133
 
jingo said:
The property is in Victoria. My PM really hopes that the tenant does "do a runner" before the hearing. I can't understand why tenants are given so many chances. If I don't pay my power bill the power company won't hesitate to cut it off after one warning letter!?
Click to expand...
Ahhhhh.....a Vic(torian) Tribunal virgin (you poor baby; my sympathies) :p

jingo said:
The other thing my PM mentioned was that the tenants name would be entered into the data base for troublesome tenants. According to her the tenant would not so much as be able to get a mobile phone in the future.

Does anyone know if this incident will affect my tenant's credit history!?
Click to expand...
Only if they use the same name when applying for the next property!!! Provided they've been added to the database to begin with (not a guarantee, and based on their argument, the person conducting the proceedings, the weather.....blah blah blah.....may never happen!!) :(

All the best with it (the Tribunal I mean, not the tenants; they're easy in comparison to deal with)!! :rolleyes:
 
Hi Crest,

Thanks for your reply.

crest133 said:
The PM hopes the tenant will do a runner ?
When a PM hopes a tenant will do a runner, then the PM should take the blame for choosing such a bad tenant. Doesn't matter if it was a previous PM, assuming it's still the same REA.

I have changed to a new PM. The PM currently managing the property didn't put them in there in the first place. That was the 'skillful' work of MPRE in Frankston. :rolleyes: MPRE assured me the tenant was on $60,000 a year! lol!!! I have since found out she is on every payment from centrelink known to man. Maybe that does amount to $60,000 a year. Should we all give up and go to centre link (and land lords) to fund our life style. Sometimes I think so!!

Tenancy laws and Tribunals are complex. However, in your case, tenants make it easier for landlords to be granted termination of tenancy and fast possession at the first hearing if the tenant either abandons the property or makes no effort to pay any more rent before the hearing date.

Yes, this is what my PM believes. Abandoment would be a great option for me. Then we can clean up the property, receive the insurance payout and start afresh!!

PMs want to arrive at a hearing in a strong position.
It can help if the PM continues to send rent demands to the tenant up to the hearing date. The tenant cannot say there were no opportunities to pay,
or make promises to pay when they have already not taken the available opportunities.

This is really good advice. I'll just check with my PM if she is still requesting payment via letters regularly. All bases covered, sounds good.

Tribunal hearings require PMs experienced in Tribunal matters, otherwise Govt funded Tenants' Advocates will eat them for morning tea and your losses will increase.

I wouldn't like to be messing with my PM. She is very thorough, matter of fact, and she has left an extensive paper trail. Including letters sent to the tenant to demand payment.

The best PMs are adept at choosing good tenants, managing the marginal ones, and vetting the bad ones, and good PMs spend little time in Tribunals mopping up mistakes.

Yes, thats why we changed to our current PM. She is very experienced in all matters relating to property management.[/QUOTE]
Click to expand...
 
kathryn d said:
We always have the tenant set up a repayment schedule.Have the tenant sign it. Have had some tenants do this several times. Then when you need to go the tribunal, you can prove that you bent over backwards to try to get this tenant to pay.Never had them say no to us.
You really should go to the tribunal, at least once.

One of the best pieces of advice I read here was to check the garbage after a tenant leaves and to keep all the mail that comes after a tenant moves out. We have gotten so much valuable info, when we went to the sheriff to guarnish their wages.

Good luck
Click to expand...

Ohhhh, I like this advice!! I just want to stuff up her credit rating up for a very, very, very long time too!! In fact, I will be willing to pm other landlords in Frankston her name and details so that they don't have the pleasure of putting her into one of their properties!! Although my PM assures me that her name will be placed on the "data base for awful tenants". (I don't know its correct name!).
 
toony said:
Hi Jingo

Is your property in Frankston? My PM has made many appointments for a tribunal hearing only for the tenant to make the rental payment. Some tenants seem to know the law very well and make the payment that will then prevent a tribunal hearing. They then delay the next payment, you issue an order to leave, make an appointment at the Tribunal and then they pay again. They continue this type of behaviour for a while.

That may be why the PM hopes they abandon.
Click to expand...

Thanks Toony,

Yes, it could be a very drawn out process. Just a question though, the lease ends in August. How do I ensure that she is out by the end of the lease if she chooses to adopt this pattern?
 
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