First time at the tribunal

[jingo]

Thanks for the reply Dazzling,

It sounds as if you are trying to unhitch as quickly as possible and hook up with another mule. Why not leave the mules alone, and hitch up to a racehorse. Better still, stop buying wagons that naturally attract mules, trade up to a carbon fibre racing sled, jump on and hitch up to a rocket....if ya get my drift.


Yes, good advice. I will certainly be assessing this particular purchase to see if it warrants our best interests for the long term. It was selected due to a major road being built which would connect the suburb to the city, with anticipated price growth to follow. This is actually coming to fruition now, so all is not in vein!

I like your idea though of hitching up to a rocket. Much better than hitching up to another Mule!! Food for thought.

Even though you are too busy to worry about her well being, it appears by the lack of decisions or delays by the tribunal decisions......they indeed care very much about her well being - enough to ignore all of your business objectives and postpone until her wellbeing improves. In the meantime, your furious pitbull PM and cashflow concerns can all go and whistle Dixie. No joy there as yet. BTW, is this pitbull the same one who selected her as the best tenant to go into your property in the first place ??

This is very worrying. Although I never expected the tribunal to be on our side. Our PM certainly didn't select this tenant. This was the work of a previous agency who we have well and truly ditched.

Don't get me wrong, I'm on your side with this all the way, but I know exactly what is the top priority in all of this shambles through the eyes of the residential tribunal members......and it surely ain't your property business objectives. Never is. Landlord's always seem to have this false expectation going into these matters that their cashflow and asset is somehow the highest priority. It is in their eyes of course, but the decision makers seem to be looking through a different set of eyes.

How many of these events can you sustain ??

Good luck in your endeavours jingo.

We will be assessing the situation and this particular place to see whether it will in fact deliver the growth I hoped it would. Wouldn't be too happy enduring this kind of event on a regular basis. I shall keep you posted on the outcome. Looks like you've had some experiences like this Dazling when you were investing in IP's. Good move moving into commercial. I have a friend who has just had a commercial property re-valued. They bought it for 1M about two years ago, and the val came back at 1.5M. Now this is the type of race horse I'd like to own!!!

 

[jingo]

Tribunal Hearing Adjourned by the Tenant

Hi,

Just wondering if there is anyone who knows exactly what happens after a tenant has had a hearing at the tribunal adjourned at the last minute due to a medical reason? My tenant applied to the tribunal with a medical certificate, and we were notified just a day before the hearing was to take place that it would be adjourned. No other date for the hearing was provided.

I have read through the VCAT web site to try and find information as to whether the tenant can appeal again on medical grounds once another hearing date is set. I couldn't find anything - just found the actual application form which doesn't provide this information.

Just wondering whether the tenant would be able to appeal a hearing again, or whether this is unlikely.

Thanks for your help.

Regards Jason.

 

[crest133]

The Tribunal members exercise a lot of discretionary power where illness is concerned. It pays to appear sympathetic but at the same time, you still have the right to rent, especially where the cause of illness is ELECTIVE surgery.

You also should be able to ask that if the tenant cannot give you a hearing date they will be well enough to attend within a reasonable time and cannot write to the Registrar of Dept Fair Trading with any valid reason why they are witholding rent in the meantime, that the hearing should go ahead in their absence.

The tenant seems quite able to manage her affairs e.g.
arrange an abortion
cancel a hearing date

so why not manage to pay rent ?

The argument is that while the tenant is having a PLANNED absence from work or is already on Centrelink payments, then Centrelink can still assist and so can the Dept of Housing.

Sick people need to be more careful to keep a roof over their heads than well people.

So my suggestion is to be sympathetic for the illness and still demand matters proceed or get paid full rent.

cheers
crest133

 

[sailor]

A couple of thoughts:
It would appear that the tenant fell pregnant about the same time or shortly after defaulting with rent. So it would seem that becomming pregnant would not be an "excuse" for not paying rent.

Most terminations these days happen in "day surgery", and require about 1 day off work. So if tenant is still able to attend to her employment, why would she not be able to attend the tribunal?

 

[jingo]

A couple of thoughts:
It would appear that the tenant fell pregnant about the same time or shortly after defaulting with rent. So it would seem that becomming pregnant would not be an "excuse" for not paying rent.

Most terminations these days happen in "day surgery", and require about 1 day off work. So if tenant is still able to attend to her employment, why would she not be able to attend the tribunal?

Hi Sailor,

Thanks for posting,

The tenant is not actually in paid employment. She is in a relationship of some description and has two young children. According to my PM though she seemed fine when she came into the Real Estate Office just the other day to abuse my PM for sending her a notice of eviction.

Anway, I read through all of the VCAT information. VCAT is the authority who presides over the tenancy tribunal. I rang my PM today to see whether it would be possible for my tenant to appeal the next tribunal date that is set. It seems that this is virtually impossible. My PM has never had this happen to date. (And she is very experienced). So while the tenant has delayed the process somewhat the matter will still proceed and it seems according to my PM that my tenant does not have anything going in her favour to warrant an unfavourable decision on our behalf.

Thanks for the thoughts Sailor.

I'll update as further details come to hand.

Regards Jason.

 

[Dazz]

How much per day is this costing you jingo, both in lost rent and extra admin charges ??

Is the PM charging you $ 95 per hour or part thereof to attend to this matter ?? If so, are you able to recover these funds as well, or do you wear that as a 'happy to pay whatever it takes' cost. Insurance cough for that ??

Do you expect to get all of the dosh the tenant owes you in one final payment.....or is it going to be one of these ;

"Guilty as charged....yes you've been a naughty girl, now we order you to pay it back at the rate of $ 5.00 per fortnight, or whatever you feel you can afford, until such a time as the next disasterous hardship comes along and prevents you from paying."

I imagine your back payment of rent is way way way down on her day to day living expenses priority list.....

 

[jingo]

How much per day is this costing you jingo, both in lost rent and extra admin charges ??

Is the PM charging you $ 95 per hour or part thereof to attend to this matter ?? If so, are you able to recover these funds as well, or do you wear that as a 'happy to pay whatever it takes' cost. Insurance cough for that ??

Do you expect to get all of the dosh the tenant owes you in one final payment.....or is it going to be one of these ;

"Guilty as charged....yes you've been a naughty girl, now we order you to pay it back at the rate of $ 5.00 per fortnight, or whatever you feel you can afford, until such a time as the next disasterous hardship comes along and prevents you from paying."

I imagine your back payment of rent is way way way down on her day to day living expenses priority list.....

Hi Dazzling,

Our aim really is to get her out. Her lease expires in August - still a long way off unfortunately.

I attribute the current mess to two factors:

1) Our previous property manager at a different real estate office. At the time our IP was up for lease, this agency was undergoing major upheaval with significant changes of staff. (Unbeknowns to us at the time). It took a while to get a tenant which was fairly unusual given the tight rental market. (August last year). The tenant was a substandard find, and I believe not properly screened by the previous agency.

2) Mistakes on my part. In hind sight we have to share the blame for putting this tenant into the IP. I missed the warning signs when the previous agent recommended her. I didn't check to see whether the agency had done the appropriate checks, and I wasn't diligent enough. I did insist though that there be a 6 month rental contract drawn up. This was not carried out, and a twelve month lease was put into place. (Which we did sign - very stupid mistake on my part).

So, I have learnt a lot from this experience and will be very actively involved when future tenants are appointed to any of my IP's.

Now, the holding costs:

Haven't an exact figure for you Dazzling. I checked with the PM today. The tenant is technically only one week over due in her rent - having made a rather significant payment two weeks ago to bring herself up to date.

The issue we have with the tenant is that she is not following the terms of the lease, and not paying a month in advance as per the lease agreement. (Which she signed). Her irregular payment has been occuring since she went into the place. Basically, I have had enough, and need her to pay a month in advance on the date specified in the rental agreement. Thus we are taking her to the tribunal.

Our PM is not charging to represent us. We only have to pay the tribunal fees. (Minimal amounts). Our insurance company will cover for loss of rent. At this stage we are not making any claims until we have a notice for her eviction and know the total amount that we will be out of pocket for.

Dazzling, Our tenant's lack of payment will not hinder us in the short term from expanding our portfolio. Its really just an annoyance rather than "A show stopper" - an expression I have picked up from around the forum.

Nevertheless, we intend to "pretty the place up" once she leaves and draw on the equity which has gone into the place since we purchased. The area we invested in is benefiting in growth from a piece of major infrastructure (road connecting it to the city) and the speculation that arises from this.

Any extra help and advice Dazzling would be appreciated.

Regards Jason.

 

[jingo]

The Tribunal members exercise a lot of discretionary power where illness is concerned. It pays to appear sympathetic but at the same time, you still have the right to rent, especially where the cause of illness is ELECTIVE surgery.

You also should be able to ask that if the tenant cannot give you a hearing date they will be well enough to attend within a reasonable time and cannot write to the Registrar of Dept Fair Trading with any valid reason why they are witholding rent in the meantime, that the hearing should go ahead in their absence.

The tenant seems quite able to manage her affairs e.g.
arrange an abortion
cancel a hearing date

so why not manage to pay rent ?

The argument is that while the tenant is having a PLANNED absence from work or is already on Centrelink payments, then Centrelink can still assist and so can the Dept of Housing.

Sick people need to be more careful to keep a roof over their heads than well people.

So my suggestion is to be sympathetic for the illness and still demand matters proceed or get paid full rent.

cheers
crest133

Thanks for your advice crest. It is appreciated.

I contacted my PM today, and a new hearing date will be set by the tribunal. They will send it through to her in the next day or so.

I agree that tact will win through at the end of the day. You are correct though, the tenant doesn't seem totally hapless!! From what I understand she receives rental assistance - and that should really be going to me!

I shall keep you updated on what occurs!

Regards Jason.

 

[Dazz]

Our aim really is to get her out.

Any extra help and advice Dazzling would be appreciated.

If tact, legal avenues and patience worthy of a saint is the kind of path you are heading down, then I am unable to help. Not my strong suit.

I've evicted 3 residential ratbags and 6 separate industrial organisations in my time. The 3 residential ones were the hardest as they often involved women / children, kitchen and laundry stuff.

We have a rule now, if the property has a kitchen, or it would attract women and children as tenants....then we won't buy it. Way too much emotion and cutesy family stuff for my business objectives, and not enough nett rent dollars rolling in.

The IP's we target attract tenants where their number one priority is making dollars. If you buy an IP that attracts tenants where their number one priority is to have a nice safe happy family, we reckon as a Landlord you, and your business objectives, are being put down the totem pole of your tenant's priority list....the rent is eminently sacrificable. Fantastic and right and proper if you are the tenant, but not much chop if you are the Landlord.

The legal contract between the two parties (executed Lease) may say differently, but when push comes to shove, you very quickly realise where you slot in to your tenants priority list.

None of the evictions have involved courts / tribunals or PM's. I couldn't stand the lies and innuendo and false promises and next week excuses....You better take heed of your own advisers on this one, I've never been down the path you are travelling.

I've always chosen the cheap, quick and painless way. When it gets heavy, we roll in the heavy artillery and the wife usually goes in with the marine grade chain and lock.....scares the beejesus outta most people.....including me

Hope ya have a win jingo.

 

[jingo]

Just been updated from my PM. A new tribunal hearing date has been set, but hasn't been communicated to her from the tribunal yet.

The tenant in question has now paid their rent up to and including 11 June. My PM is not happy, as it would have been easier to have the tenant evicted from the property had she not paid. Regardless, my PM is going to the tribunal to demand eviction. We are determined to get this tenant out.

 

[kathryn d]

We have to serve our tenants in person, or via registered mail (but they can refuse to sign for this). Our tenant moved away...owing about 2k.We drove where she worked...4 hrs away.Didn't know where she lived but we did know she took a job transfer and her previous work mates told us where she went.

She ended up not working that day, so we decided to make it a mini vacation, spend the night in a motel and served her at work, in front of her co worker that next day.
The hearing was in 5 days, 5 hrs where she was living now, and she said she wouldn't be able to attend. Rob told her to call the Tenancy Board.

Anyways, while Rob was at the hearing she called. They had no intention of postponing the hearing so they all agreed to have her attend via phone.

Our tenant did not give proper notice to give up her apartment.However, tenancy board stated they can only award up to the hearing date. We have learned from this to book the hearings AFTER the proper notice would have expired.

I am amazed that there isn't a backlash from landlords to have tenancy boards abolished.
Where else would you allow someone to steal from you and have to ask permission for that person to stop?

 

[toony]

If the tenant has paid to 11 June 2007 - you have no grounds for eviction