Thanks units4me.
This news has been discussed on Bill.L's 'what does $500 brl oil mean?'.
It will be good for Australia to be self sufficient in nitrogen fertilizer.
See ya's.
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Food, grain, oil, drought, and other stuff,...
- Thread starter topcropper
- Start date
Thanks units4me.
This news has been discussed on Bill.L's 'what does $500 brl oil mean?'.
It will be good for Australia to be self sufficient in nitrogen fertilizer.
See ya's.
Hi TC
The region I know is the south west of WA where rainfall has been decreasing (except for this year) for the last 10-20 years. This timeframe is too small to prove anything... But runoff has decreased much more, especially in water catchments. This is mainly because they have been revegetated and the trees are getting bigger! Smart thinking...
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It's interesting to look at rainfall trends.
Anyone pushing the global warming barrow and wants to show how desperate things are, use rainfall compared with the 70's to today. I have seen this map numerous times in the media to scare people,.....
However, it is a bit unfair to compare with the 70's, as the 70's were a very wet decade especially in the eastern states. I remember regular summer floods.
Someone wanting to show things are not too bad would compare todays rainfall with the very dry 40's.
Probably the fairest comparison is over the whole century. 1900 to 2007,....
The south west corner of WA does appear to have falling rainfall no matter which timeframe is used. Northern NSW appears to me to be a bit lucky. I don't expect our rainfall to drop from global warming, as our rain comes from the north and north west, and is summer dominant.
On a farm tour of grain growers in WA a few years ago, we got the impression that salinity was being over-exagerated. The saline areas were the low areas, but these areas were never cropped anyway, just left native, and the farmers claimed those saline areas had always been there.
Maybe the farmers were telling porkies too. I don't know, but we were mainly looking at more northern areas, above Perth.
See ya's.
Hi TC
There are plenty of low lying saline areas that were native but they are growing slowly and new ones developing where they weren't before. It's all about water balance ie what goes in to the water table has to get pumped out, either through the leaves of trees or through surface evaporation (a saline area) in low lying areas. The poor soils mean crops miss the majority of the water as it doesn't hold in the surface layer for long enough before effectively dropping in to the water table. I know farmers south east of Perth who manage their growing saline areas by partly planting deeper rooting crops (ie lupins) or try to supplement a bit of livestock feed out of some strategically placed tagasaste in the runoff areas. MY FIL managed to turn around a saline paddock using similar methods along with hydrological advice, which had him using strategically placed bores and tree planting. He was pretty proud of himself and 10 years later it's still fine for cropping.
Mind you the dam water from that paddock is still no good...The 30/30 rule of thumb (by 2100) was developed assuming no net change in rainfall from the long term average. If you accept rainfall is falling, then salinity won't be that big a problem - less going in then less needs to be pumped out. Could become a 20/20 rule by 2100 or even less depending on whether you reckon the climate will change and by how much... bit of a circular argument in that respect!
North of Perth in recent years (last 10 at least to my knowledge, probably more) has had very low rainfall. This has pretty much stalled the growth of salinity in those areas hence there is some justification in an "exaggeration" claim. But if rainfall returns to the long term average over the next 20 years then it will have been a short term reprieve...
By the way, there is an argument that the >90% land clearing of the Wheat Belt has also been responsible for the drop in rainfall through the reduction of humidity as fronts pass through. It's a long story and while it is very difficult to prove a number of academic types are saying this is more likely to explain the drop in rainfall in this area than climate change. I personally suspect a number of factors are at play - we are dealing with things we do not yet understand!
WA has had low lying saline areas since Adam was a boy. The nullarbor used to be a seabed FFS. The farmers of old used to try and get as close as possible to the lakes and cleared around them, which allowed to saltpan to spread.
Unfortunately for some, they had cleared from BEHIND the tree line UP TO where they were trying to clear so there was no "second front" of deep rooted vegtation - so it just kept growing.
funny thing is, the higher the water table gets, the worse the saline problem becomes. the gibson desert has had more rain in the past 50 years than ever before - who knows where that water is going...
Unfortunately for some, they had cleared from BEHIND the tree line UP TO where they were trying to clear so there was no "second front" of deep rooted vegtation - so it just kept growing.
funny thing is, the higher the water table gets, the worse the saline problem becomes. the gibson desert has had more rain in the past 50 years than ever before - who knows where that water is going...
There has been talk for a while that the northern tropical region of Australia could be turned into Australia's food bowl if rainfall is in for a perminant drop in the southern areas.
Anyone been watching the abc's 'Two in the Top End'..?
Good show, just like 'Two men in a tinny' was. Proffessor Tim Flannery gives the Ord River irrigation scheme a bit of a blast here,.....
http://www.abc.net.au/rural/wa/content/2006/s2384577.htm
........"The 2007 Australian of the Year Tim Flannery has blasted the idea of expanding the Kimberley's Ord irrigation scheme saying it would be a waste of tax payers money.
The environmental scientist says it's been proven over 40 years the Ord can't sustain the large food crops that are currently being proposed.
Mr Flannery says tax payers money should be directed at improving the sustainability of the pastoral industry an industry he says is the future of the region.
"I'm dubious about agriculture around the Ord River scheme, I mean we've tried everything in the kitchen sink up there and there's been problems with all of it so I'm not sure if that'll ever be a huge food bowl."..........
He is right too. After 40 years the Ord River is just never really been a success. I've been up there and looked around. This is the best soil they could find up there, and it's crap. The rest of the north is even worse. Fertilizer is much more expensive up there due to freight, and the costs of getting food out is much higher. Bugs just move in and wipe everything out, as do the water birds and buffalo.
The north of Australia will never be a big provider of food in my opinion. No matter how much rain they get.
See ya's.
Anyone been watching the abc's 'Two in the Top End'..?
Good show, just like 'Two men in a tinny' was. Proffessor Tim Flannery gives the Ord River irrigation scheme a bit of a blast here,.....
http://www.abc.net.au/rural/wa/content/2006/s2384577.htm
........"The 2007 Australian of the Year Tim Flannery has blasted the idea of expanding the Kimberley's Ord irrigation scheme saying it would be a waste of tax payers money.
The environmental scientist says it's been proven over 40 years the Ord can't sustain the large food crops that are currently being proposed.
Mr Flannery says tax payers money should be directed at improving the sustainability of the pastoral industry an industry he says is the future of the region.
"I'm dubious about agriculture around the Ord River scheme, I mean we've tried everything in the kitchen sink up there and there's been problems with all of it so I'm not sure if that'll ever be a huge food bowl."..........
He is right too. After 40 years the Ord River is just never really been a success. I've been up there and looked around. This is the best soil they could find up there, and it's crap. The rest of the north is even worse. Fertilizer is much more expensive up there due to freight, and the costs of getting food out is much higher. Bugs just move in and wipe everything out, as do the water birds and buffalo.
The north of Australia will never be a big provider of food in my opinion. No matter how much rain they get.
See ya's.
I know it's not big enough to be a "food bowl" but could the Burdekin Delta take up some slack? I'm not sure why the rice growing died but it would not have been through lack of water and I'm pretty sure it was good quality. They just seem to hang onto sugar.
On another topic, someone on ABC radio was talking about another natural sweetener yesterday but only gave a scientific name. It's a shrub which they harvest the leaves. They need to do some more breeding to get a good tropical variety.
On another topic, someone on ABC radio was talking about another natural sweetener yesterday but only gave a scientific name. It's a shrub which they harvest the leaves. They need to do some more breeding to get a good tropical variety.
It's called stevia. It's quite sweet tasting with no calories but does have a licorice like aftertaste. You basically just crush the leaves to my understanding. They just got approval to use it in Aus for soft drinks etc. I didn't know it was banned until then - my Vitamin C has been sweetened with if for ages!
Dunno about grwoing it in the top end. TC is right - the soil is terrible and very little seems to grow. The only successful planting I'm aware of are tree based crops (can't actually remember what they actually were now!) but that was only because of absolute mollycoddling through the first few years of life to keep them alive. And then you have the transport issues.
It's a bit like Derby tidal - fantastic resource for power generation but way too far from anywhere that needs electricity!
I think on the 'Two men in the Top End' show last, half the ord river scheme is now planted to sandle wood trees. I don't know anything about them. I was up there in 1996, and the place then was thriving for the first time. There was a sugar mill going in, and land prices had skyrocketed.
See ya's.
My comment about the north probably not ever contributing much as far as food production goes was more aimed at the territory and northerm WA, rather than QLD. The current north QLD farming areas are highly productive and always will be.
I suppose they stick with sugar as they have found it the most profitable.
See ya's.
Starving for Gas
An interesting article by Julian Cribb about natural gas and agriculture. He has done his research, and I agree with a lot of what he says.
I'm hoping he's being a little overly pesimistic though. I'm not expecting to see any starving people in western nations in my lifetime, nor my childrens, and he fails to mention that nitrogen fertilizer can also be produced using coal. However most people alive today will see tens of millions of people starve to death soon in Africa. Maybe even 100's of millions. It's just a matter of numbers and when it will happen.
As I've mentioned before, legumes are natures little wonders, however global food production would immediately halve if we had to grow nitrogen using legumes.
http://www.sciencealert.com.au/opinions/20092708-19635.html
..........."In all the argy-bargy over the Gorgon gas deal with China there has been not a whisper of discussion of the issue most vital to Australia's – and the entire world’s – future.
Nowadays not many people seem aware that nearly everything they eat and most of what they drink is produced using nitrogen fertilisers. And nitrogen fertilisers are almost entirely made using natural gas.
Indeed half the world's people would not be here today were it not for the tripling in global food production achieved largely through the use of this invaluable petrochemical byproduct. Admirers of Brillat-Savarin might plausibly contend the present human race is mostly made of gas.
Today’s high-yielding food crops, to a very great degree, depend on high levels of applied nitrogen: without it, yields collapse. Since the Green Revolution the entire world food supply has become more and more critically reliant on this input.
However, worldwide, natural gas reserves are running out just as quickly as oil which, presumably, is why China wishes to secure such a long term contract for gas from Australia and no doubt many other suppliers".........
One thing to remember. 400 years supply of a resource for Australia is a lot less for China.
See ya's.
An interesting article by Julian Cribb about natural gas and agriculture. He has done his research, and I agree with a lot of what he says.
I'm hoping he's being a little overly pesimistic though. I'm not expecting to see any starving people in western nations in my lifetime, nor my childrens, and he fails to mention that nitrogen fertilizer can also be produced using coal. However most people alive today will see tens of millions of people starve to death soon in Africa. Maybe even 100's of millions. It's just a matter of numbers and when it will happen.
As I've mentioned before, legumes are natures little wonders, however global food production would immediately halve if we had to grow nitrogen using legumes.
http://www.sciencealert.com.au/opinions/20092708-19635.html
..........."In all the argy-bargy over the Gorgon gas deal with China there has been not a whisper of discussion of the issue most vital to Australia's – and the entire world’s – future.
Nowadays not many people seem aware that nearly everything they eat and most of what they drink is produced using nitrogen fertilisers. And nitrogen fertilisers are almost entirely made using natural gas.
Indeed half the world's people would not be here today were it not for the tripling in global food production achieved largely through the use of this invaluable petrochemical byproduct. Admirers of Brillat-Savarin might plausibly contend the present human race is mostly made of gas.
Today’s high-yielding food crops, to a very great degree, depend on high levels of applied nitrogen: without it, yields collapse. Since the Green Revolution the entire world food supply has become more and more critically reliant on this input.
However, worldwide, natural gas reserves are running out just as quickly as oil which, presumably, is why China wishes to secure such a long term contract for gas from Australia and no doubt many other suppliers".........
One thing to remember. 400 years supply of a resource for Australia is a lot less for China.
See ya's.
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Norman Borlaug dead.
This is an interesting story about a very unknown man, regarded as being mostly responsible for the food green revolution.
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/97jan/borlaug/borlaug.htm
Not a well known story. Only a farmer would have heard of this bloke. And the green movement and some environmentalists regard this man and modern agriculture as the enemy. Tells a lot of how food production has increased so much in 100 years.
See ya's.
This is an interesting story about a very unknown man, regarded as being mostly responsible for the food green revolution.
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/97jan/borlaug/borlaug.htm
Not a well known story. Only a farmer would have heard of this bloke. And the green movement and some environmentalists regard this man and modern agriculture as the enemy. Tells a lot of how food production has increased so much in 100 years.
See ya's.
