Meister, I don't know about you but before I buy property I find out whats happening in the area this week and aside from this when did you become Jesus?
Frankston North Houses At Record High In Slowing Market!
- Thread starter annie lumen
- Start date
Meister, I don't know about you but before I buy property I find out whats happening in the area this week and aside from this when did you become Jesus?
so if you were looking into a suburb would you go into a forum and tell everyone that its the best thing since sliced bread, you've only joined the forum in the last 12 months, and same with the other person. Its all been done before, Massive difference between wanting to research a suburb and coming here and basically spamming the crap out it
people who have been here for years have read it all, and when someone comes onto the forum telling everyone how good the suburb is, it gets old really quickly, trust me on that one, it makes the info provided about frankston and the forum as a whole look unreliable
Meister, what also makes information on this forum look unreliable are experienced heads like yourself behaving like a child who won't share his toy.
Oh and while the existing threads on Frankston maybe handy Meister, I wouldn't listen to a person who is moreless advising theres no need for any further discussion about the current market.
yeah ok - frankston is the greatest place to live in the world. (it beats the best of the best in melbourne in terms of lower entry and investment returns -everybody should invest in franktson *cough * cough). i love frangas!!! damn what happenned?
Anyway curious to work out what the real capital growth or manufactured capital growth was in the last 2 years. anybody?
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So in essence the validity of your argument is that the quality of a post/thread is determined by the duration of membership to this forum.
You have been 'around' for a while, so in your opinion, this forum should only contain posts that serve as information for someone with a longer membership spann.
Mmmm ok.
By the way i have been around longer than the time of my joining as per Intrinsic Value.
It might make the information about frankston unreliable, in no way does it make Somersoft unreliable.
Again if you want to provide a more detailed view of other suburbs then post away.
Thats what this forum is about, expressions of view points.
25% approx. for my property in Frankston North for the past 12 or so months.
I mean no disrespect but if you and Property Meister are sick of reading about Frankston it's pretty simple, don't enter the thread.
no disrespect, not sick of reading - just trying to understand and see if it is a worthwhile suburb to invest.
it's a public forum - so everyone is entitled to give their opinions whether it is negative or positive. If you only look at the pros and not acknowledge the cons - how can you be a better investor ? Using mcdonalds and bunnings theory maybe OK but not concrete enough to justifying the investment.
Fair whack.
Personally, I got into Frankston North because it was cheap, well below the median for Melbourne, beachside, in the Easter Suburbs, brick and the property was subdividable. I looked at Werribee around the same time but I couldn't see myself purchasing in the West. I'm thankful now as the amount of Community Housing projects in the areas to the West I looked at is astounding. I'm aware Frankston North was known for said housing however a lot of those properties have been sold off privately - much like Doveton. It was my first property investment and I wasn't game enough to look interstate in areas I'm not as familiar with.
I also remember what Frankston North was like in the 80s and earlier. There's already new units and houses going in which certainly helps the area even if only aesthetically. Also, Frankston had been earmarked as a satelite city by the previous state government.
Though I would still prefer to live elsewhere (I'm in Upwey as I like the speed - or lack thereof!
) the area from an outsiders point of view is that it is changing.So there you have it, why I chose Frankston North. Apologies for taking away a couple of minutes of your life!
I have limited experience in frankston north.
However - My experience of frankston is back in the 90s when i was schooling in Mt eliza.We would hangout in frankston and it was a pretty rough neighbourhood back then. After that many years of on and off coming down to the beach, i came to frankston again end of march to work on a project - however much to my disbelief is that it hasn't really progressed that much - in terms of new changes. nepean highway, mcdonalds all the same shops - even the japanese shop which was there back in the early 90s are still there. There was minimal increases and i felt this quite odd being it is more than 10 years.
i went to subway couple of times only to see a couple of crims lurking around which gave me a bit of an eerie feeling. I admit oliver hill is most likely the best but is pretty expensive. I gave some earlier posts that actually showed frankston declining in terms of median and other statistics and many other posts read said that there were actually many people looking to offload but couldn't. Bayview being one of them. Wouldn't this be something to caution or worry?
However - My experience of frankston is back in the 90s when i was schooling in Mt eliza.We would hangout in frankston and it was a pretty rough neighbourhood back then. After that many years of on and off coming down to the beach, i came to frankston again end of march to work on a project - however much to my disbelief is that it hasn't really progressed that much - in terms of new changes. nepean highway, mcdonalds all the same shops - even the japanese shop which was there back in the early 90s are still there. There was minimal increases and i felt this quite odd being it is more than 10 years.
i went to subway couple of times only to see a couple of crims lurking around which gave me a bit of an eerie feeling. I admit oliver hill is most likely the best but is pretty expensive. I gave some earlier posts that actually showed frankston declining in terms of median and other statistics and many other posts read said that there were actually many people looking to offload but couldn't. Bayview being one of them. Wouldn't this be something to caution or worry?
No, not worried in the slightest. For me it's a long-term investment before I look at subdividing - I'm not putting a timeframe on it more to the point.
Being approx. $200k below the median doesn't bother me either, I believe as others do that those entering the market will see it as a viable option, particularly with upgrades in access to the city - EastLink and Peninsula Link (2013).
Aside from selling my first PPOR, my plan is to never sell again (unless I subdivide several times over I may not retain all properties on the lots).
I'm now looking regional, in a nutshell it's because of affordability and of course with the development of infrastructure including quicker access to the city.
Frankston Nth Houses At Record High In Slowing Market.
I think the title of this thread is very relevant to investors looking to buy right now.
1: Frankston Nth is still cheap any way you look at it, however with the softening of prices in areas such as the Whistlestop Estate , Frankston Nth is no longer as big a bargain as it was 6 months ago.
2: I think Frankston Nth has had huge growth over the last 3 years and it's been a great ride for investors but if bargains are popping up in what are considered to be better locations then investors would be crazy to ignore these opportunities while they are there.
3: I own property in the Lakewood Estate and have put in an offer on another house in the same street and I know that back in december agents would have told me to keep walking.
4: I think Annie summed things up very well in her posts regarding Karingal and again I think people buying right now would be crazy to not atleast consider the deals available throughout all of Frankston.
I think the title of this thread is very relevant to investors looking to buy right now.
1: Frankston Nth is still cheap any way you look at it, however with the softening of prices in areas such as the Whistlestop Estate , Frankston Nth is no longer as big a bargain as it was 6 months ago.
2: I think Frankston Nth has had huge growth over the last 3 years and it's been a great ride for investors but if bargains are popping up in what are considered to be better locations then investors would be crazy to ignore these opportunities while they are there.
3: I own property in the Lakewood Estate and have put in an offer on another house in the same street and I know that back in december agents would have told me to keep walking.
4: I think Annie summed things up very well in her posts regarding Karingal and again I think people buying right now would be crazy to not atleast consider the deals available throughout all of Frankston.
from what i can see frankston north houses are achieving record highs due to the fact many of recent sales are reflective of smaller sizes of land.
Anyone who is buying who wants to subdivide must be crazy - u're paying premium when couple months ago only extra 20-30K would give you for 300-400sqm more.
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rosemary cr - 291K - March 2011 (size 644 sqm)
bursaria cr - 280K - March 2011 (size 616 sqm)
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mitre cr - 300K - Dec 2010 (1058sqm)
Ribbon s - 310K - Nov/Dec 2010 (984sqm)
Any to top it off 3 plots of land was sold 160K each april -539sqm each. Statistics do not lie. As to upside - graphs over last 10 years show every inconsistent peaks and drops....
there were appox 173 transactions in the last 2 years and the median weekly income is 660. Many are renters and don't own outright and 92% of the properties are houses as in landed with 500sqm of land.
So in the right state of mind - u buy a 280K land (can't subdivide) - the smarter ones who would want to develop would have bought it 900sqm and at least split it into 2. 310K + 15k (rough figures) and then try to subdivide it planning etc etc (opportunity cost of holiding that asset). plans permits -25K, miscellaneous - 20K building (interets etc) - 200K each - so you're up 775K - and then try to sell each at what price? assuming 410K (that would be above the median by 110K) 820K-775K would give me 50-60K on 820K investment assuming 1.5-2 years. is that good? why do that when u can get net 70-100K on 570K investment. just my 2 cents.
just on figures alone -
thumbs down for development on.
As for renting and holding 15 years thumbs up.
PS : (i didn't just go and say - hey frankston is great or frankston is crap, gave some constructive analysis to the suburb)
Anyone who is buying who wants to subdivide must be crazy - u're paying premium when couple months ago only extra 20-30K would give you for 300-400sqm more.
---------------------------------------------------
rosemary cr - 291K - March 2011 (size 644 sqm)
bursaria cr - 280K - March 2011 (size 616 sqm)
-----------------------------------------------------
mitre cr - 300K - Dec 2010 (1058sqm)
Ribbon s - 310K - Nov/Dec 2010 (984sqm)
Any to top it off 3 plots of land was sold 160K each april -539sqm each. Statistics do not lie. As to upside - graphs over last 10 years show every inconsistent peaks and drops....
there were appox 173 transactions in the last 2 years and the median weekly income is 660. Many are renters and don't own outright and 92% of the properties are houses as in landed with 500sqm of land.
So in the right state of mind - u buy a 280K land (can't subdivide) - the smarter ones who would want to develop would have bought it 900sqm and at least split it into 2. 310K + 15k (rough figures) and then try to subdivide it planning etc etc (opportunity cost of holiding that asset). plans permits -25K, miscellaneous - 20K building (interets etc) - 200K each - so you're up 775K - and then try to sell each at what price? assuming 410K (that would be above the median by 110K) 820K-775K would give me 50-60K on 820K investment assuming 1.5-2 years. is that good? why do that when u can get net 70-100K on 570K investment. just my 2 cents.
just on figures alone -
thumbs down for development on.
As for renting and holding 15 years thumbs up.
PS : (i didn't just go and say - hey frankston is great or frankston is crap, gave some constructive analysis to the suburb)
In your examples, which sale had properties that could be retained? Which had fibro? Also, what you're saying is smaller sized properties are less than larger size properties 4 months earlier? Also, what can one do with 539sqm? Chances of subdivision are extremely extremely unlikely.
I don't understand.
If you can retain the existing house? Take $200k out of your costings.
Even so, don't take my word for it...
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...-look-to-fringes/story-e6frg9gx-1226034773448
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...-look-to-fringes/story-e6frg9gx-1226034773448
what i am saying is don't go on the belief that subdivision is the way to go (with annie being pretty pro on it) as it isn't. And you're exactly right 539sqm ain't going subdivided. they ain't no bargains to be subdivided based on the 173 sales data i have ( and the price you ppl paying are going to yield poor returns). As for buying and holding it forever - yeah why not? although the median income cannot justify a massive capital growth in frankston north.
Forget suburbs etc - and just based on stats and fundamentals. i really do a lot of analysis on anything i invest- to the point where i can pinpoint a "few times a year" on CFD trading to make an average of 20-30K per day. So far, 90% accuracy on that over the last few years. i also actually have spend like quite a few weeks on Frankston honestly, studying demographics, spending patterns, sales figures which is why i have this data. put it this way - I'm no one liner investor or follow the crowd.
Most articles like these are geared to certain organizations which have vested interest and are baseless using vast micro factors without understanding the suburb.
Last 2 years only yielded 173 sales divide that by 1200 which makes it 14% of the total sales on the frankstonish (oliver hills, frankston, frankston north etc) suburb alone.
Although I started this thread, I'm not putting a gun at anyone's head and forcing them to invest in Frankston North.
If you are chasing steady capital gain and can deal with the sniggers of people who refuse to invest in a low-priced working-class neighborhood, then go ahead and buy in Frankston North or Karingal (currently the cheapest part of Frankston). But if you want high-status property with little prospect of significant capital gain or potential cash flow positivity, then look elsewhere.
If you think high net-worth people don't invest in Frankston or Frankston North, think again! I know a lady who owns 32 properties in the area, all of which are cash flow positive. I know of a surgeon from the Northern Territory who owns 14 houses in the Frankston & Frankston North area. To me, neither appear to be fools - they seem to know what they are doing. Like myself, they are in it for the money and have no plans to move to the area. They got in because it is cheap and has more potential for upside than the rest of Melbourne.
For those who say "stop ramping Frankston" I respond by saying: "this is what I am doing myself, with my own money. I'm sharing my experiences, I'm not here to force people to buy into what is clearly a cheaper, working-class neighborhood". My own estimates suggest that everything I've bought in the current market will become cash flow positive within 3 years. That's right for me. But it may not suit everyone. I'm always happy to listen to high net-worth people who have a history of outperforming the market. If anyone can recommend better areas with greater opportunity for capital gain, please PM me. My situation is that anything I buy must be in a major city and must be able to attain cash flow positive status within 3 years of acquisition.
My own tips, in a nutshell:
1. None of this is rocket science. Make sure you buy a rentable property on a block that is over 600 sqm in size. Anything over 600sqm is classed as a dual-occ site. You can redevelop it someday, or maybe sell it to a developer if you lack the energy to develop it yourself.
2. Don't pay too much! My own maximum for North Frankston is $300,000. And for Karingal: $320,000. It's a buyers market now and if you do the homework, you will be rewarded.
If you are chasing steady capital gain and can deal with the sniggers of people who refuse to invest in a low-priced working-class neighborhood, then go ahead and buy in Frankston North or Karingal (currently the cheapest part of Frankston). But if you want high-status property with little prospect of significant capital gain or potential cash flow positivity, then look elsewhere.
If you think high net-worth people don't invest in Frankston or Frankston North, think again! I know a lady who owns 32 properties in the area, all of which are cash flow positive. I know of a surgeon from the Northern Territory who owns 14 houses in the Frankston & Frankston North area. To me, neither appear to be fools - they seem to know what they are doing. Like myself, they are in it for the money and have no plans to move to the area. They got in because it is cheap and has more potential for upside than the rest of Melbourne.
For those who say "stop ramping Frankston" I respond by saying: "this is what I am doing myself, with my own money. I'm sharing my experiences, I'm not here to force people to buy into what is clearly a cheaper, working-class neighborhood". My own estimates suggest that everything I've bought in the current market will become cash flow positive within 3 years. That's right for me. But it may not suit everyone. I'm always happy to listen to high net-worth people who have a history of outperforming the market. If anyone can recommend better areas with greater opportunity for capital gain, please PM me. My situation is that anything I buy must be in a major city and must be able to attain cash flow positive status within 3 years of acquisition.
My own tips, in a nutshell:
1. None of this is rocket science. Make sure you buy a rentable property on a block that is over 600 sqm in size. Anything over 600sqm is classed as a dual-occ site. You can redevelop it someday, or maybe sell it to a developer if you lack the energy to develop it yourself.
2. Don't pay too much! My own maximum for North Frankston is $300,000. And for Karingal: $320,000. It's a buyers market now and if you do the homework, you will be rewarded.
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forget the prestige and stick to fundamentals :-
How can over 600sqm be a subdivided block when everyone is buying 500sqm+ blocks. Have you done your numbers ? 3 blocks sold for 160K 539sqm each. so how can you subdivide and then expect to sell at a profit or even with the plans?
If you saying all the properties you are buying will only be cashflow positive over 3 years indicates you are gearing up heavily or either the returns in frankston does not cover your outgoings.
there are no bargains in frankston north - only ones were the 900sqm+ and the 1000sqm+ block which were sold. i have done my research - and you getting good educated analysis here.
How many times do I have to repeat myself?
Personally, I don't recommend that any investor buy a smaller block because these are not generally subdivisible. Nothing I have bought is less than 600sqm.
Just for you Melbournian, I will say it again:
BUY LARGER BLOCKS OVER 600sqm AND UNDER $300,000. There.......it wasn't that hard was it? Are you awaiting the meltdown? You may be waiting a long time. At these prices, there's very limited downside.
i will ASK you again
where are the over 600SQM BLOCKS. How many have been sold? and has any one bought a 600SQM divide into 2 blocks?
and
if you buy barely 600-650SQM BLOCKS - who in the right mind would buy a subdividable bloack
i would buy in frankston but at least 750SQM block
Sorry - can't see that is the norm.
i know point cook has 350-400sqm blocks sold all the time but that is point cook this is frankston (different blocks, different appeal and different buyers)
where are the over 600SQM BLOCKS. How many have been sold? and has any one bought a 600SQM divide into 2 blocks?
and
if you buy barely 600-650SQM BLOCKS - who in the right mind would buy a subdividable bloack
i would buy in frankston but at least 750SQM block
Sorry - can't see that is the norm.
i know point cook has 350-400sqm blocks sold all the time but that is point cook this is frankston (different blocks, different appeal and different buyers)
