Freeman Fox - Wealth Club

[geoffw]

Hi all,

Geoff, because you paid the money to go to the seminar in the first place, you were obviously looking for something at the time(an answer). If you had gone to a self motivation seminar at the time you could have come away with pretty much the same motivation and more dollars in your pocket.

If you had not been seriously thinking about property before the seminars, you would not have paid out the money to attend the "wealth seminar" in the first place.
Because you don't use the option strategies you learnt, but do use the property strategies, have you asked yourself why?? after all you paid for the lot, and if part of the strategy works, why are you not involved in the rest??
To me the answer is that you were already of a mind to invest in property, before you attended the seminar.

Actually, I went because of the shares. I was not going to be lead down the Invesment Property trap that I had seen some of my friends going down.

I initially went as a result of a friend telling me about the covered call writing strategy (at an all afternoon lunch). I already had one IP, which had not performed well, so I was not going to waste any more money on any more properties.

Peter changed my way of thinking completely.

I've done better at property than at shares, largely because I have not used much real money- just equity.

I was excited about the share strategies, but even when I did have the cash, I didn't do too well. And even when I did do well, it was always such a small amount as compared with my properties. $10,000 invested to get $1,000 return- big deal.

 

[Bill.L]

Hi Geoff,

"Peter changed my way of thinking completely."

That's my point. You already knew to do something, you were already into property, you needed a push.

If Peter had just run a motivation seminar along the lines of "you need to do SOMETHING, YOU can DO anything". Then the results would have been pretty much the same by reading a couple of books on your intended area(property in your case).

bye

 

[geoffw]

That's my point. You already knew to do something, you were already into property, you needed a push.

My point is, I was NOT GOING TO GO INTO PROPERTY. I was dead against it. I would not have read a book, because I "knew" that property was a dead end proposition. I'd proved it. I'd had on property in England which I'd sold ten years after I bought it for a mere 14% CG (not per annum- total- and it had been NG all that time), and a property I had bought three years before which had only appreciated $10K (after spending $10K on landscaping).

 

[Bill.L]

Hi again,

Geoff, I am facinated then in knowing why, when property was sooo poor for you, that you didn't use the other strategies with great vigor(ie using borrowed funds to go down the shares/options path).
At the seminar the property part rang a bell, but the shares/options didn't. To me that means you had a desire all along(hidden even from yourself perhaps?) to go with property.

Maybe I'm totally wrong, and Peter needs to work on his presentation of the shares/options side of the strategy instead.

bye

 

[superted]

There are easy ways to do things and more complex ways that end up with the same result (broker option strategies are a classic example of the complex).

Maybe Geoff found it less effort going the property route (the lights turned on) once he had been to the seminar versus heading down the shares path again.

Like anything if you can pull something out of a book or seminar and improve your situation you havent lost anything, especially if its paid itself.

Bill have you been to one of Spanns seminars of which you appear critical or is it just seminars in general??

 

[geoffw]

Bill

You are trying damned hard to twist everything I'm trying to say into something you want to hear.

I pursued shares and property. I made a little out of shares. I made a lot out of property. I tried paper trading options. It took a lot of care and attention. Property only took a little bit. (Except for renovations. But that was something I gained a great deal of personal satisfaction from doing. I'm a desk person- I'd never done much with my hands- and there I was, adding many thousands of dollars of value with work I did myself).

It was a time in the cycle where it was obvious to even me that things were rising. It was a wonderful exciting ride.

Now that ride is mostly finished, I am looking at other asset classes.

But I guess that you'll tell me that that is also a failing of Peter's.

 

[Bill.L]

Hi all,

Geoff, first of all a big apology, I should not be picking on you.

Ted, a VERY good question, and the answer is YES, I have a big problem with the seminar format for learning about investment.

Firstly, just about all seminar presenters use some type of brainwashing/mind control techniques, and even if you are aware of them does not stop you from being affected. Even if the techniques are not deliberate, the group dynamics of the crowd and the feeling of belonging(or wanting to) are very powerful. There is a lot of reading material on the internet about the subject, usually in a religious context.
Try http://www.banner.org.uk/apostasy/mind-control1.htm

or perhaps http://www.ctyme.com/bwash/bwash.htm

By educating yourself properly, through books that do not have the hype attached to them, allows you to analyse strategies in the cold light of day. Of course when you do this you don't get the instant "motivation" that a course will give, and just as well.

Secondly, everyone is taught /told to get independant advice in relation to investment matters. This means paying for the advice from someone who will not make money out of your investment decisions(i.e. not the typical FP, who puts you into mutual funds that they get trailing commissions from).
Now someone who makes money from people trading options/buying shares; selling strategies that just happen to generate a lot of commissions, is not really my idea of "independant".
I've been to plenty of cheap/free seminars, and have yet to go to one where I cannot buy something that the presenter just happens to have that they could sell me. I have not been to the "expensive" ones that offer all the secrets, but I know people who have, and the theme is the same. One friend of mine paid $10,000 for a weekend seminar 15 years ago in the commodity trading field. The end result was he could learn more on the $15,000 3 day course.

Many "celebrity gurus" who post on this forum, have people believe everything they say, I try to put things in a little perspective, that being that they are human just like the rest of us.

bye

 

[Aceyducey]

Bill,

The way people learn, or choose to learn, is their own business.

Not everyone gets the same value out of books.

At the end of the day the value in a seminar may not be the techniques it teaches, but the fact it gets someone off their backside & starting to invest.

BTW - there's plenty of hype in books as well. Words on paper carry no more authority or proof of fact than any other medium.

My view remains -

People need to be skeptical of all big claims & challenge the assumptions and numbers whatever the medium and whoever is making the claim.

But they need to learn in the way that works best for them - whatever the cost.


Bill, your issue with the seminar forum seems to be more related to the format than the potential value of the content. Your comments seemed aimed at pushing everyone away from all seminars.

That's fine for you personally - but may not be best for other people.

By all means challenge individual seminars to prove they contribute value & are both legal & ethical.

However in challenging the entire format you're potentially influencing people away from events that could help them change their thinking.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[geoffw]

Geoff, first of all a big apology, I should not be picking on you.

Thanks Bill.

YES, I have a big problem with the seminar format for learning about investment.

My point has been that I would not have read a book in the first place. I started reading as a result of the seminar- the seminar notes included an excellent reading list.

Now someone who makes money from people trading options/buying shares; selling strategies that just happen to generate a lot of commissions, is not really my idea of "independant".

When I attended the seminars in 2000, Peter did not make anything from selling property or selling shares. The sharebroking and real estate arms of the business came about a few years later. When I did the course, I know that the Covered Call strategy was NOT a way to generate income for the presenter.

His fundamental strategies have not changed a lot as a result of his changed role. The main changes have been additional suggestions- property trusts being the main one.

 

[Adam]

Hi All,

Just thought I would offer a beginner point of view. I read books, lots of them. Nothing happened. I went to an intro semminar and started to get motivated.

Finally went to a 2 day semminar (Peter Span) and now things are happening.
Recently became a Saphire member of Freeman Fox and think it is the one of the best things that I ever did.

Not because being a Saphire member is a quick way to riches, its because it is helping me to get things done.

I can post more thoughts/experiences if people want, though I just wanted to say that for me, if it wasn't for a seminar I would probably be stuck in the rat race forever. And yes I read a lot of books etc. Just glad I found something that works for me.

Hope this helps anyone else that might be sitting on the fence and wondering.

 

[Ms Jade]

It is possible that people like Adam, geoffw and myself have been brainwashed by Peter Spann but I also credit the seminars with giving me the info & the belief to get started.

When I did the seminars in 2000 we has 200k+ of "bad debt" (including my beloved HSV) & thought we were doing pretty well. Even though I took 18 months off work in the interim, and actually went backwards financially for 2 years, our bad (non-deductible) debt is now $0.
We have over $1 million worth of property and, if all goes according to plan next weekend, that will increase to $1.6million in the next 6 months. Obviously, I have a looooonnngg way to go. But BOY am I glad I spent the $$ getting an education.

 

[Bill.L]

Hi all,

Does anyone know the difference between motivation and education???

How about we here from someone who went to a NII seminar in the year before they were closed down, and tell us about their successful education and motivation.

I have already stated that I don't have any problems with motivational seminars, it's just when the person has something to sell you as well....
Come to think of it even the "motivational" seminars usually have more motivation to sell you(tapes, books, further "advanced" courses etc).

bye

 

[astroboy]

Hi all,

Does anyone know the difference between motivation and education???

How about we here from someone who went to a NII seminar in the year before they were closed down, and tell us about their successful education and motivation.

I have already stated that I don't have any problems with motivational seminars, it's just when the person has something to sell you as well....
Come to think of it even the "motivational" seminars usually have more motivation to sell you(tapes, books, further "advanced" courses etc).

bye

Well Bill.L,
I have had a long association with property and sinking my hard-earneds into it. Don't really know why just thought it seemed like a good thing to do. Parents and relos seemed to always talk about what could have been had they bought this or that.
So started buying some bits and pieces without any plan or structure.
*Then* I attended a 'property seminar', my wife had encouraged it.
As GeoffW has stated it was a life turner.
I realised what I was doing was basically going along way to making me wealthy, but the motivation provided by the course turned me around and we became much more aggressive and focused on achieving very specific results .
The rest, I believe, is history.
Sailing the world at our leisure is but a stone throw away.
ab

 

[Ms Jade]

Hi all,

Does anyone know the difference between motivation and education???

How about we here from someone who went to a NII seminar in the year before they were closed down, and tell us about their successful education and motivation.

Do you want to hear about their "education" or "motivation," Bill? I hazard a guess that we all know the difference, BTW. Perhaps it's possible for people to obtain both from the one format. I went to an NII seminar, but not in the year they closed down (not sure on the distinction). I go to lots of seminars, mostly the free ones, and can say that I have learned something new from every single one. In fact, I am determined to learn something from every one... Perhaps that's just 'cos I don't know very much!

I have already stated that I don't have any problems with motivational seminars, it's just when the person has something to sell you as well....
Come to think of it even the "motivational" seminars usually have more motivation to sell you(tapes, books, further "advanced" courses etc).

bye

OK, you have a problem with "sales," then. Fair enough. I have no problem with people selling stuff - it's what businesses do. Seems to me that the most successful businesses are the best at selling. If you are lumping Freeman Fox into the "Hold a wealth creation seminar simply to sell some other services" camp, I must respectfully disagree. Much of the Company's present iteration seems to have come about through market demand from previous attendees in the last year or two. Before this, and certainly when I first attended the seminars, there was nothing else for them to sell.

I must say, if I ran a business that provided wealth education (and nothing more) over the last few years I would be concerned about how to grow the business. With the bad media wrap provided by NII etc, I would be looking to diversify and add value to my offering in order to distinguish myself from the "get rich quick" and "property spruiker" tags. What would you do?

 

[MasterMind]

Look into my eyes

Firstly, just about all seminar presenters use some type of brainwashing/mind control techniques,

Ahh, mere mortals, look into my eyes. You are getting sleepy, your are feeling relaxed.

You are peaceful. Now, cluck like a chicken and go out and buy more of Peter Spann's “How You Could build a $10 Million Property Portfolio in Just 10 Years” books 'cause he's a really good guy and has a Ferrari habit to support.

Now, when I click my fingers you will awake, alert and with significantly more books in your bookshelf.

***Click***

 

[Peter Spann]

Ha Ha

Go out and buy more of Peter Spann's “How You Could build a $10 Million Property Portfolio in Just 10 Years” books.

WOW! This guy is a REAL guru.

I think we all can learn something from his advice, don't you?

Sorry, but really...

I just couldn't resist!

Forgive my warped sense of humour.

Come on – if you want to go to seminars go to seminars.

If you think they are a crock – don’t go.

Easy – all solved.

Personally I LOVE ‘em and I’ve been to just about everything. But I recognise they are not for everybody.

BTW 1.

Here is the content of Slide # 13 from our intro seminar…

3 Admissions
1. I LOVE all the hype and fun of seminars
• But as a Financial Adviser I know I have to deliver real, practical, usable and legal information
2. There is nothing in this seminar that you don’t already know or couldn’t learn yourself for very little
• But I have worked it all into a unique strategy and know that strategy works to produce real wealth in the long term
3. Our objective in doing these seminars is to secure you as a long term client
• We hope that if we impress you enough this weekend you will want to work with us for the long term to build your wealth

And then I go on to say that if people are uncomfortable with these admissions they can ask for a refund and we’ll issue it on the spot or if they get to the end and think I haven’t delivered or I have been over the top salesy they can also ask for a refund.

BTW 2.

Wealth Club has got nothing to do with seminars – it’s private client financial planning.

BTW 3.

Just in case you didn't notice - I am Mastermind - didn't want anybody to be decieved now and afterall I don't really know how to work all this forum yet - I only found out today what Kudos is!

 

[kph]

Seriously funny stuff....

Peter, if you ever get bored with the wealth / financial stuff, you could go into stand up comedy.

Both informative and entertaining on the same thread...you don't always get that..

 

[geoffw]

didn't want anybody to be decieved now and afterall I don't really know how to work all this forum yet - I only found out today what Kudos is!

Kudos is a fairly new, underutilised part of the forum.

There's an icon just above the post number,

Click on it, and you can give somebody "kudos".

You give a comment, and the person can read that comment. And it adds to that person's score.

After a certain score (I'm not sure what it is) the caption under the

icon changes.

You can't give kudos repeatedly to one person.

But, personally, some of Peter's posts I've felt have been the best in the forum for a while.

If you agree, give him kudos & comment.

If not, well, that's OK too.

(btw, welcome to this thread too Peter. I initially found this forum, in 2000, by doing a search for your name. That's probably been almost as important to my own wealth creation as you seminar.).

 

[Garry K]

Here is the content of Slide # 13 from our intro seminar…

3 Admissions
1. I LOVE all the hype and fun of seminars
• But as a Financial Adviser I know I have to deliver real, practical, usable and legal information
2. There is nothing in this seminar that you don’t already know or couldn’t learn yourself for very little
• But I have worked it all into a unique strategy and know that strategy works to produce real wealth in the long term
3. Our objective in doing these seminars is to secure you as a long term client
• We hope that if we impress you enough this weekend you will want to work with us for the long term to build your wealth

Hi Peter

I love this approach (actually, it's so good, I might try it at my next seminar)

You have to be honest. No one is going to run a seminar, and incur the costs, just because they can. You want something back - usually clients.

I recall well going to a HK seminar in the early days - he filled Camberwell (Melb) Town hall. We left about half way through as the hype was just too much.

And I too would much rather go to a seminar than read a book. It's just my learning style.



GarryK

 

[Bill.L]

Hi all,

I had a huge post for this thread mostly typed when the 'puter spat the dummy with me. Oh well, probably just as well

Garry, I think you summed it up perfectly

"And I too would much rather go to a seminar than read a book."

It's so easy, and people who have done the easy thing want it to be the right thing , therefore will defend their actions.

Does nobody else here see anything wrong with the concept of marketing in the guise of education and motivation. There are many marketers who use the concept that the more people pay for seminar, the more "valuable" will be the information.

Just because Peter Spanns seminars are reported as good or HK's seminars are reported as bad, does not change the underlying intent. Nor does it change the view of the novice who goes along to one or the other and not knowing what's good or bad before they begin.

Before I again get accused of being too negative, how about we discuss the merits of the actual strategies that get promoted by the different presenters, and where more information can be obtained, or examples used, or peoples results etc.
We need not worry about "proprietry secrets" because in the investment field there are none, and those who think there are, are deluding themselves.

bye