Goods & Services that Have Risen in Price Due to The Carbon Tax

[Sunfish]

I predict Labor will get kicked to the back blocks in the next election and stay there for another 4 or 5 election cycles while the country recovers from the mountain of debt built up.

Daz, whatever party rises from the ashes of labor's crash and burn, it won't be the ALP. The ideologues and unions will be stranded and need to suckle up to the communists for warmth. The pragmatists who will "do whatever it takes" [proven by their kowtowing to greens] will collect around the KAP or the shell of the DLP and a party with a cuddly name will resurface.

Democratic Australia Party?

 

[HiEquity]

I agree. Union membership has declined to the point where unions are increasingly irrelevant to the vast majority of the population. Their continued involvement in politics is anachronistic and unsustainable.

Either the ALP pulls the plug on the unions and reinvent itself as a moderate centre left party or (far more likely) something else will rise up to take its place. Could be the greens if they can shed their wackier hangers-on and enter the mainstream...

 

[evand]

A single party (note the word single) that has been around over a hundred years will not disappear after one election. Getting a bit excited there boys.

 

[Sunfish]

Everything has a "Use by" Evan.

 

[evand]

The govt knew businesses affected by the CT would pass on the costs (they cant do anything about this) so that's the basis for the compensation. Thye said this at the beginning.

The govt has estimated the increased cost at about $10 pw and the cash handouts and tax reform is above this in benefit for the population.

There is also tax reform for business, of which i sent you a bunch of links a while back for info.

This as all been done to death on here. Its carbon Tax 101.

Ev, it's simple maths and business practice;

Those companies which incur expenses have to either absorb them, or pass them on.

Now, in the case of these companies being charged the tax on their emissions, they may be in a position to absorb them....for the short term.

But, my instinct tells me this can't last, and something must give eventually.

Which way will they go?

Maybe they will absorb it in an effort to remain competitive on the world stage. This will decrease profits and will probably result in lost jobs.

Or, they will look to pass it on to their customers, which would - I believe - result in higher charges for those products they produce, and that we use.

How does it affect me materially? I will incur higher costs for energy useage apparently, and who knows what else will go up.

For me; the increases are a factor, but won't put me out on the street. But for many families; the effects could be serious on their lifestyle.

But my concern is not for myself; it is for those who will lose jobs as a result of all this.

And how much will the temp have altered as a result? zippo.

 

[Rolf Latham]

The govt knew businesses affected by the CT would pass on the costs (they cant do anything about this)

I havent been keeping up, so help me out here.

Small carbon footprint so not a major issue in direct increased cost for us , but I know we will be asked to pay more for many inputs such as couriers, power, air con service etc.

I cant ask my lenders to pay higher comms due to CT inputs, so should I add a "carbon" levy of 50 bucks to each loan app payable by the borrower ?

ta
rolf

 

[Dazz]

The govt knew businesses affected by the CT would pass on the costs (they can't do anything about this) so that's the basis for the compensation.

....if that is the basis then it is a very shaky basis indeed.


1. There are a multitude of businesses that cannot pass these costs on, as they compete in the Australian marketplace for customers with international companies who do not have this impost placed upon them by their Govts.

These companies get kicked in the teeth and are forced to absorb the higher cost.


2. Then there are companies like huge electricity generators who run on coal, which the majority of the population like cos they generate electricity for us to use cheaper than any other method. The Carbon tax they pay to somehow "incentivise themselves" to run on so-called green fuel cannot possibly do so without stopping production, re-jigging their entire infrastructure at the cost of a few billion. Meanwhile, we all sit in the dark while they completely change out their fuel input side of the operation.

Once again, this is like solar cells....if you ignore the initial capital outlay, everything looks rosy on the opex side. Unfortunately, back in the real world, where the cost of capital is crucial to all businesses, this kills the fanciful idea stone idea.

The Greens, who think up these hare-brained schemes have generally never run a successful business in the real world, and so they have no clue as to what is needed to get things done in the real world. Their preferred method of simply popping the cost on the credit card and then conveniently forgetting about it (both the principal and the interest payable it attracts) doesn't cut the mustard in the real world.


3. All those winners in society who strive to improve themselves and earn a decent wage after usually working bl00dy hard for it get slugged at every turn and have received nothing from the Govt as usual.


.....and after all that, not a stitch is going to translate into any meaningful reduction in emissions. In fact Labor acknowledges in their Govt printed material the amount of carbon being pumped into the atmosphere will increase by 2020.


C'mon, this has been, like the mining tax, a very simple socialist policy imposed by a very socialist left leaning Govt to rip cash away from the efficient and hardworking and hand it over to the "I'm entitled to" brigade.


I'm told Australia will however be donating 10's of billions over to 3rd world countries....for something....Brownie points (pun intended) to get into Bob Brown's muted world parliament. This is after the Green's dismantle Australia's Federal parliament of course.


I'm ashamed to be part of Australia with the mad hatter Greens leading the dullard Labor members around by the nose. Bring on the vote.

 

[evand]

There is business tax reform for exactly the situation you mention.

 

[evand]

True. But not this Labor party. They just need to use strategies that were implemented by Clinton and Blair to get into power.

I saw a documentary recently called The Century Of The Self. Fascinating. It was part 4 that focussed on Clinton and Blair and how the got into power against all odds at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self

Everything has a "Use by" Evan.

 

[willair]

True. But not this Labor party. They just need to use strategies that were implemented by Clinton and Blair to get into power.

I saw a documentary recently called The Century Of The Self. Fascinating. It was part 4 that focussed on Clinton and Blair and how the got into power against all odds at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self

Have a look back in the past Blair was a standout in some areas..http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/12/13/1039656218220.html

 

[BayView]

There is also tax reform for business, of which i sent you a bunch of links a while back for info.

I've been through this whole thread and can't find your link to the tax reforms for businesses.

Care to post it again, or explain it here?

Turn it up Dazz, i supply more links and evidence than anyone posting here.

Maybe not.

 

[DavidMc]

Energy has never been cheaper to produce, yet we pay the highest prices ever for it.

The majority of this cost comes from the deregulation of the industry, smart meter roll out and the like...

Were all those who are complaining about Carbon Tax in this thread saying anything about Smart Meters?

Were was the 29 page whinge thread on those?

 

[evand]

I cant remember what thread it was (there has been so many political ones lately) but i replied with about 4 links with info on tax reform for business to do with the CT.

I've been through this whole thread and can't find your link to the tax reforms for businesses.

Care to post it again, or explain it here?

Maybe not.

 

[Aaron_C]

Were all those who are complaining about Carbon Tax in this thread saying anything about Smart Meters?

The thing is, the Carbon Tax is a price hike. Combined with the dodgy practices of the electricity industry with the forced installation of these 'Smart' Meters means we will all be paying more for something that has the capacity to charge us more for using power during certain times of the day. I have even heard that the Smart Meters give the electrical companies the power to shut down your power remotely if the grid is overloaded. Can you believe it?

 

[eKwatee]

from "Adelaide Now":
PRIME Minister Julia Gillard will launch attack the states today for soaring power prices, barely a month after her own price-inflating carbon tax began............ read more blaming here

 

[Dazz]

soaring power prices

...soaring compared to what....

As usual, to get to the truth, one has to ignore the melodramatic attention seeking headlines and dig quite deep to actually find the real story behind the numbers which form the basis of the article and all the 'claims'.

I cannot speak for the ther states, but here in WA, the Labor Party when it was in power (Feb 2001 thru to Sept 2008) had a deliberate policy of not increasing power costs at all.

This was kept artificially low for 7.5 years despite the cost of producing the electricity, and more importantly the cost of maintaining the aging distribution network going thru the roof during that time. Politically popular - yes, but not reflective of the reality.

Flat-lining prices for over 7 years whilst the cost of production rises continually has consequences.

As usual, when the Liberal Party got into power here in Sept 2008, they finally got to see the real figures and the real state of the economy, and immediately set about increasing prices to try and reflect what it actually costs to deliver to the household consumer.

Here in WA, we've had power prices increased by 62% since Sept 2008. We haven't quite reached the cost of production and distribution, but we are a damn lot closer than we were in 2008.

Of course, when you ignore all that background information, and just look at the prices charged.....sure, it looks like Labor did a wonderful job for 7 years and the Liberals are thieving mongrels.....and politically, that's exactly the way Labor planned it.

Our state Labor opposition leader Mark McGowan will be using this little spin as his main weapon during the lead up to the upcoming state election in March 2013.

Of course, trying to graph the true cost of production and distribution vs prices charged is lost in the 3 second sound bite that TV and radio journalists want.

The challenge for all state leaders is to unpick the spin and get the clear message out. I think Colin Barnett and the Libs here in WA will be OK, cos the population actually still listens to what they have to say.

Julia Gillard on the other hand wil have a devil of a time, as she does with everything she says, because people around the country simply have switched off, and no longer are listening to what she has to say.

 

[Token Funder]

...soaring compared to what....

As usual, to get to the truth, one has to ignore the melodramatic attention seeking headlines and dig quite deep to actually find the real story behind the numbers which form the basis of the article and all the 'claims'.

I cannot speak for the ther states, but here in WA, the Labor Party when it was in power (Feb 2001 thru to Sept 2008) had a deliberate policy of not increasing power costs at all.

This was kept artificially low for 7.5 years despite the cost of producing the electricity, and more importantly the cost of maintaining the aging distribution network going thru the roof during that time. Politically popular - yes, but not reflective of the reality.

Flat-lining prices for over 7 years whilst the cost of production rises continually has consequences.

As usual, when the Liberal Party got into power here in Sept 2008, they finally got to see the real figures and the real state of the economy, and immediately set about increasing prices to try and reflect what it actually costs to deliver to the household consumer.

Here in WA, we've had power prices increased by 62% since Sept 2008. We haven't quite reached the cost of production and distribution, but we are a damn lot closer than we were in 2008.

Of course, when you ignore all that background information, and just look at the prices charged.....sure, it looks like Labor did a wonderful job for 7 years and the Liberals are thieving mongrels.....and politically, that's exactly the way Labor planned it.

Our state Labor opposition leader Mark McGowan will be using this little spin as his main weapon during the lead up to the upcoming state election in March 2013.

Of course, trying to graph the true cost of production and distribution vs prices charged is lost in the 3 second sound bite that TV and radio journalists want.

The challenge for all state leaders is to unpick the spin and get the clear message out. I think Colin Barnett and the Libs here in WA will be OK, cos the population actually still listens to what they have to say.

Julia Gillard on the other hand wil have a devil of a time, as she does with everything she says, because people around the country simply have switched off, and no longer are listening to what she has to say.

Indeed. Simply posting overly simplistic numbers that appear to tell an obvious story but in fact reflect a more complex set of circumstances is intellectually lazy and generally the hallmark of someone simply pushing an agenda.

No worries penny.....it goes to the heart of whether a party is a competent economic manager of the country's finances or not.

Let's look at the last 20 years ;

FY.........Govt.......PM.............Surplus / Deficit

91-92.....Labor......Keating.......12.6 billion
92-93.....Labor......Keating.......18.1 billion
93-94.....Labor......Keating.......18.2 billion
94-95.....Labor......Keating.......14.2 billion
95-96.....Labor......Keating.......11.1 billion

96-97.....Liberal.....Howard.........6.1 billion
97-98.....Liberal.....Howard.........0.1 billion
98-99.....Liberal.....Howard.........3.9 billion
99-00.....Liberal.....Howard........13.0 billion
00-01.....Liberal.....Howard.........5.9 billion
01-02.....Liberal.....Howard.........1.1 billion
02-03.....Liberal.....Howard.........7.4 billion
03-04.....Liberal.....Howard.........8.0 billion
04-05.....Liberal.....Howard........13.6 billion
05-06.....Liberal.....Howard........15.7 billion
06-07.....Liberal.....Howard........17.2 billion
07-08.....Liberal.....Howard........19.7 billion

08-09.....Labor......Rudd............27.1 billion
09-10.....Labor......Rudd............54.7 billion
10-11.....Labor......Gillard...........47.7 billion
11-12.....Labor......Gillard...........37.1 billion


It doesn't take a genius penny to have a squizz at the table of results and see which political party is able to run a competent show or not.

If you can't see a distinctive pattern, then vote Labor.

It took a full decade of Liberal good work to erase the accumulated debt created by Keating's mess. It's staggerring to think how long it will take to clear up the carnage Swan et al are creating.

** Note...

1. See the dramatic turnaround a change of Govt has on the accounts in 96 and 97. No, it's not all about 'the circumstances'. Deliberate changes to Govt policy have dramatic effects, as can be seen by the swift turnaround from deficits in the tens of billions every year to surplus' every year.

2. Obviously the GFC is still with us, given Labor's deficit this year. Labor keep raving on how they guided Australia through the GFC.......well I dunno, looking at the deficits, it's far worse now than in 08 when apparently it hit.

3. Anyone who believes this Labor Govt can deliver a surplus is in cuckoo land. They simply don't have the competency level to do anything of the sort.

4. I suspect the Liberal Govt might be in power for another 12 years mopping this mess up.

5. People will look back on these figures in years to come and identify this shambles of a Green dictated Govt as the worst in Australia's history.

 

[Aaron Sice]

i know of a service that has fallen since the introduction of a carbon tax....?

 

[Peter 14.7]

i know of a service that has fallen since the introduction of a carbon tax....?

Someone had to post it, Peter

 

[Ideo]

Someone had to post it, Peter

Damn it. I'd just copied that link and was about to post it up