Henry Kaye

[BayView]

I really don't like this anti-Kaye attitude of this forum. I think the content of his work has alot of merrit for those who are proactive and want to actually put in some effort into getting ahead in life.

Like LA Ausie and Melbear have said (and some others) they learned alot from the courses. They were fantastic! I have read his courses but not been to a seminar.

I find it so difficult to believe that even after doing a $12,000 comprehensive course people are still not switched on enough to do some research before buying overpriced appartments. It is not only Kaye that was offering them, it is all other developers and sprukiers. I see clients of ours every week buy overpriced "off the plan" or newly built property that they label as an "investment" because some clown (usually a RE agent) told them it was. Some are $120,000 above the median for that area!

People need to take responsibility for their own actions and learn from mistakes. Continuing to be a victim is not the answer.

I believe it was dishonest to offer those appartments for sale to his audience but Kaye will bounce back! He has a rich persons attitude and this will probably not even make a dent to his overall wealth. Even if all is lost he will find a way to become rich again!

People who have purchased the overpriced appartments will lose in more ways than one. They have already lost their money but they are also losing the lesson!!!! As long as they continue to be victims in life and refuse to take responsibility and learn they will always remain poor.

The solicitors, reporters and other shock jocks that continue to attack Kaye and talk about all the poor people who have lost money are really not helping either.

Right here is the reason why the rich get richer and the poor will remain poor! (even if they were compensated double what they paid, they will still be poor)

Well said Xenia;

I got the impression from the course that I did that many people wanted to have it all done for them. Whether out of fear, or laziness, or it's too hard, time poor etc I don't now. All excuses.

As an extra to this; everyone who went to that course also got an invite to a free seminar a few months later which was about Mezzanine Finance. It all sounded very risky to me; the returns were great, but I wouldn't touch it unless I had "play" money to use that I could afford to lose. I certainly didn't have that at the time.

Anyway, at one point in the evening, Henry asked for questions from the floor. An older guy (55 or so) put his hand up and when asked for his question he went into this huge rant about how he'd done the "course" last year, and that he still hadn't taken action, and that the course was a waste of money etc. Basically blamed Henry for his total lack of action. It was out of context and made the old guy look foolish.

Henry was visibly shocked and looked to be concerned for this guy (or maybe his credibility) to be attacked like this. He was apologetic that the man hadn't achieved anything.

He then went through a number of scenarios with the guy as to why he hadn't taken action so far, given that he now had some useful tools and knowledge, and basically the old guy just came up with a host of excuses.

In the end; it came down to he was a "gunna" and wanted to pin the blame on others for his failure.

Henry was quite diplomamtic and tried to help this man, and suggested he come back at the end of the Seminar to discuss what they could do for him.

It would be interesting to know what the percentages of the people who went to his courses is that actually went forward and did something on their own after the course. I'm tipping it wasn't many.

 

[geoffw]

I really don't like this anti-Kaye attitude of this forum. I think the content of his work has alot of merrit for those who are proactive and want to actually put in some effort into getting ahead in life.

Mr Kaye lost a lot of money for a lot of people.

http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf/byheadline/07-67+Henry+Kaye+committed+for+trial?openDocument

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/12/08/1133829726499.html

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/674227/fromItemId/2332

These may be a few reasons why some of us are "anti-Kaye".

I've no problem with people who are "proactive and put some effort into getting ahead in life".

But it has to be legal and ethical.

Mr Kaye has been charged and convicted with not being so.

 

[Xenia]

The only thing I can see wrong in those links is that he decieved a bank to obtain finance!!!!

I really don't see that as a big issue at all so where exactly is the problem???

The claims that people can become property millionairs using his courses are just like saying that people can become fit by going to a particular gym! Both true but require some commitment from the individuals responsible.

Again I fail to see the big deal in the whole thing

 

[willair]

The only thing I can see wrong in those links is that he decieved a bank to obtain finance!!!!
I really don't see that as a big issue at all so where exactly is the problem???
Again I fail to see the big deal in the whole thing

Deception, obtaining financial advantage by ??..
Where a person by any deception dishonestly obtains for himself or herself
or for another any financial advantage,or anything which persuades any
person to believe in something that is false,what part don't you understand
if you think for one second that to deceive a Bank and the shareholders
is not a problem,then think again ..and as i see you are in business
what a joke....willair..

 

[tubs]

What is the topic of your research?

Rachael

Maybe you've had some responses, maybe not. But I'd sure like to know what your research is before I offered you any information.

Could you please let us know what you're researching?

Thanks

 

[nonrecourse]

Highway robbers dressed up as bankers

The only thing I can see wrong in those links is that he decieved a bank to obtain finance!!!!

I really don't see that as a big issue at all so where exactly is the problem???

The claims that people can become property millionairs using his courses are just like saying that people can become fit by going to a particular gym! Both true but require some commitment from the individuals responsible.

Again I fail to see the big deal in the whole thing

Xenia;
I agree with your sentiment but fraud is fraud.Bank managers use to be held in high regard and the average person would use them for financial advice. Today they are viewed just above car salesmen as far as honesty is concerned. The incessant drive to give shareholders more and more has resulted in an attitude by most bank officers viewing the customer as simply a cash cow to be milked untill they drop.

But getting back to the real issue of taking responsibility for your actions a sophisticated investor is someone who over the course of their investing career has more often than not lost hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars. The difference with a sophisticated investor and the mum and dad investors that you read about in the paper who have lost everything is like a pro golfer, the sophisticated investor learns from his mistake and recovers quickly

 

[NigelW]

The only thing I can see wrong in those links is that he decieved a bank to obtain finance!!!!

I really don't see that as a big issue at all so where exactly is the problem???

You what!? Do you normally deceive people in your business dealings? Are you saying that lying on a loan application is not a big issue?

 

[JIT]

The only thing I can see wrong in those links is that he decieved a bank to obtain finance!!!!

I really don't see that as a big issue at all so where exactly is the problem???

You can't be serious? Is this like a 'trick' reply?!

Will be interesting to hear your explanation on this?

 

[geoffw]

The only thing I can see wrong in those links is that he decieved a bank to obtain finance!!!!

I really don't see that as a big issue at all so where exactly is the problem???

He deceived the bank to the tune of $17 million. I think that's a problem.

You've stated elsewhere that

I think Rudd and his strip clubbing is a pathetic display of immaturity and lack of self integrity and I don't want someone with such low morals to run our country[/url].

So that somebody who defrauds banks of 17M is moral, but a man who makes a visit to a strip club is not?

 

[Bill.L]

Hi all,

Xenia!, you have to be kidding.

If someone is prepared to deceive, then they are prepared to deceive. Just because banks are the only ones HK has been charged with deceiving, does not mean that they are alone.

he decieved a bank to obtain finance

I really don't see that as a big issue at all

Can I tell your bank manager you said that.

bye

 

[Xenia]

WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just hold on a minute before anyone else begins to slander what I wrote.

FIRST OF ALL. My own business AdProp is based on nothing but ethics and integrity, THAT'S why we are doing well while many other real estate agencies are struggling.

I welcome any feedback on the way we are running our business but be SPECIFIC! I don't appreciate comments linking a question on Henrey Kaye to the way I'm running my business. And by the way how could I even decieve people in property management? Advertise properties for rent that don't exist? What are you thinking????

If you have something specific to say about my business style, say it but don't put links together that don't exist!

SECONDLY! I did mention in a post above that I thought selling those appartments was dishonest and I do not condone what was done. I am just surprised that after reading many negative threads (not just this one) about Henrey Kaye seminars, what a liar he is and what a fraud etc.... I would have thought that the whole topics of his seminars were just absolute rubish (like RE agents or investors trying to sell off the plan appartments to uninformed investors and pitching negative gearing and max depreciation!!!).

The negative sentiment made it sound like he was a con artist in all aspects. But guess what? He is not!!! He is a guy that stuffed up (big time) on one deal and not on his seminars. And I don't believe that he was intentionally trying to make people lose money, it sounds to me like it was a desperate attempt to secure finance for the project. Mezzanine finance is a speculative high risk investment and the investors should have factored in the risk before handing over the money, it all comes down to due diligence! I'm not saying that he is right in what he did but I do think that some responsibility needs to be taken on both sides.

OK so he f.....d up! Does that mean that his investing strategies, seminars and content of his work needs to be slandered continously on this forum? Does that even add value to anything or just provide a gossip session for people?

I took the time to have a look at his $15,000 seminar today as well as the course notes that came with it (borrowed it from a friend). I listened to some of the seminar and as I suspected it was FANTASTIC! to say the least. It dwells on mindset, strategy, planning and taking action which are things I stronly believe in. The course notes consist on 230 slides on each day. I also have a home study kit that is 240 pages and packed with information. If I was a begining investor who had no knowledge I could really benefit from these seminars (If I was willing to take some action). I also truly believe that making the $15000 ten time over is not a big task. $1.5 million in property using that knowledge should be easy! again..... Responsibility and action!!!!

So someone who has the ability to help so many people and has helped so many people (the friend I borrowed the courses from has made millions in developments) has stuffed up on mezzanine finance and all of a sudden people are questioning the content of his seminars! That's what I just don't understand.

Geoff as for Rudd, you can't even begin to put him in the same boat. One stuffed up on a $17 million dollar mezzanine finance deal. The other is threatening to run a WHOLE COUNTRY, and is displaying such immature behaviour. Henrey Kaye is not running for an election and I don't think dirty old men should either!!!

 

[Bill.L]

Hi all,

Xenia,

Just hold on a minute before anyone else begins to slander what I wrote.

This is what you wrote.....

The only thing I can see wrong in those links is that he decieved a bank to obtain finance!!!!

I really don't see that as a big issue at all so where exactly is the problem???

I am wondering, and I think others are too, is why you don't think deceiving a bank is a big issue???

bye

 

[Jamie]

I agree completely with Bill...

If you're prepared to deceive a bank (which you condone Xenia), wouldnt you also be prepared to deceive clients / purchasers / business partners / friends? Or is he deceptive not by nature, but only by circumstance?

Henry Kaye lied to seminar attendees, to clients, to purchasers, to business partners, to financiers, and to Government regulators.

Just struggling to understand your rationale here.

Jamie.

 

[Xenia]

Hi all,

Xenia,



This is what you wrote.....



I am wondering, and I think others are too, is why you don't think deceiving a bank is a big issue???

bye

First of all it came as a surprise that after all the negative sentiment on this forum, that's all it was!

Secondly, investors commonly try all sorts of tricks to get finance over the line:

[*]Influencing valuations so that the bank can put up some or all of the deposit someone even gave me a book on how to do it,
[*]vendor cash backs where the bank sees one price and finances that price then a portion of the sale price is refunded to the purchaser.
[*]Vendors agreeing on certain improvements on a house then refunding the cost of that improvement to the purchaser.
[*]Developers buying their own developments to set a precedence for valuations
* Creating make believe salaries, job descriptions
etc....

All the above are attempts to decieve a bank and are done by investors every single day. Most go through without a gliche. Sometimes they don't (as in this case). All fall under dodgy work but I have seen them so often that they are just not a huge deal to me! I was surprised the first 300 times!!!

I network with alot of investors and run property investment groups in Adelaide, the above is not something I do in my business. Don't worry I'm too much of a chicken sh..t to attempt anything like that. But I do see those things regularly enough to not be shocked by them anymore.

 

[skater]

First of all it came as a surprise that after all the negative sentiment on this forum, that's all it was!

Secondly, investors commonly try all sorts of tricks to get finance over the line:

[*]Influencing valuations so that the bank can put up some or all of the deposit someone even gave me a book on how to do it,
[*]vendor cash backs where the bank sees one price and finances that price then a portion of the sale price is refunded to the purchaser.
[*]Vendors agreeing on certain improvements on a house then refunding the cost of that improvement to the purchaser.
[*]Developers buying their own developments to set a precedence for valuations
* Creating make believe salaries, job descriptions
etc....

All the above are attempts to decieve a bank and are done by investors every single day. Most go through without a gliche. Sometimes they don't (as in this case). All fall under dodgy work but I have seen them so often that they are just not a huge deal to me! I was surprised the first 300 times!!!

I network with alot of investors and run property investment groups in Adelaide, the above is not something I do in my business. Don't worry I'm too much of a chicken sh..t to attempt anything like that. But I do see those things regularly enough to not be shocked by them anymore.

Just because these things happen & you are not shocked by them does not mean it's right or that it's not a big issue.

For instance, I know people get murdered, raped, abused every day of the year, I am not shocked by it, but I certainly don't endorse it & IT IS A BIG DEAL.

Deceiving a bank to the tune of $17m IS A BIG DEAL.

 

[tubs]

I agree with Xenia.

He did deceive the banks, but as Xenia said:

The only thing I can see wrong...is that he decieved a bank to obtain finance!!!!

which, as I read it is Xenia saying it is wrong to deceive banks to obtain finance.
Where did she condone it? Where did she say it was all right?

And no, he didnt rape, rob or murder anyone.

Nor did he rip off his seminar attendees. They all knew the price and what was being taught. Nobody was lied to.

 

[secret squirrel]

maybe you appear in chris batten book. i hear he writing one so maybe why research. reader like quote "the only thing he did wrong was to deceive a bank for finance". maybe read right maybe wrong but reads like approval. anyway hope u dont appear in book. i hear it be good one.

 

[Xenia]

Thanks Tubs for your support

This would not have gone as far as it did if it was spoken not written.

And I'm so glan I'm desensitised to investors pulling tricks to get finance across and not to murders

After spending 10 years of my life in research to come up with cures to save lives and work closely with ICU doctors who are on the job 24 hours and would do anything to give a person an extra day or 2 of life, it absultely shocks the hell out of me every single time I hear of people who dont think twice about ending the life of a child or individual.

We all choose our realities and nothing is right or wrong it is what we make of it based on our perception. In my reality money is not such a huge deal, it is not even real it is just an idea that can be created out of nothing. You get what your mind is focused on! Wealth is abundant! But life is precious and you can never bring it back once it is gone!

 

[Xenia]

maybe you appear in chris batten book. i hear he writing one so maybe why research. reader like quote "the only thing he did wrong was to deceive a bank for finance". maybe read right maybe wrong but reads like approval. anyway hope u dont appear in book. i hear it be good one.

No thanks, I'm not interested in sensationalised journalists. This is the reason why people are so disensitised to people being murdered and watch the news and people suffering while they are having a glass of wine in the comfort of their own lounges!

They are the reason why our TV set has been put out with the hard rubish collection where it belongs!!!!

 

[tonyc00]

Hi

I understand that Henry Kaye was found guilty of breaching the Trade Practices Act by declaring that he could turn ordinary people into millionaires through investing in property.

As far as I know that is the only matter the courts have determined against him.

Tony

PS I mentioned in a previous post how I purchased his Multimedia Home Study Kit for $70 ? (approx) from ebay. An excellent resource containing "Australia's most advanced property and investment strategies" - no hype (IMHO) and well worth my purchase price.