here come the drums of a global slowdown #2

But still what makes a good trader is not this long term forecast that would need to be revised several times specially during the GFC.
Anyhow 1 week after trendsta forecast to be close to bottom the S&P500 dropped from around 900 to 725 (well over the 10%) and got down to 660 in march, now is back at 908, exactly when the forecast of near the bottom was made. The difference is the exchange rate that the AU$ was 64 cent then and 77 cent now, that would still make you 20%+ underwater.
But all this doesn't mean anything, trendsta still had great posts and I hope he would be a bit more specific, specially on what data he is basing his forecasts on.
My opinion at the moment is that we are at a important point, the TA on the S&P500 is a sell as long as the index is below 930, my view is that the minimum target is 825. I might be wrong and index goes up to 1000 or more but I would still be of the idea it would go back down to see if it can test the march minimum again.

why does this matter? why are you complaining? trendsta isn't a financial advisor, so no one would be buying and selling off his advice anyway.

to call the bottom SO CLOSE to the bottom is the art - not throwing a dart at a dartboard, one person out of a hundred gets it right and now they are an expert...
 
why does this matter? why are you complaining? trendsta isn't a financial advisor, so no one would be buying and selling off his advice anyway.

to call the bottom SO CLOSE to the bottom is the art - not throwing a dart at a dartboard, one person out of a hundred gets it right and now they are an expert...

It does matter.
Trading is all about risk management,
When trader call for trades that could be 55% of success or 60% or 90%. I am sure trendsta didn't bet all his money on his november call for a market rise, he probably had money invested before then and what is holding now is probably different then 6 months ago.
You also invest money accordingly of your risk perception. successful trader are the one that have most succesful risk management and not the one that get it right most times. You can loose everything in one single trade even after you got 100 trades right. Also expert traders are aware that the market can be irrational for very long time and are never sure 100% of their call (or they never put 100% of their money in one call).
About oil going to 100$ in 5 years or so, I think it is a very difficoult call and close to 50% success, I think oil at 100US$ most likely mean gold at 1500 US$, that would be in the case of medium/high inflation environment that is achievable with not so big unemployment number and the debt bubble somewhat under control and not a decrasing of overall debt. My view is that the world in the 5 year term would be using less oil and other commodity then it does now (unless those things would get used as currency or reserve of money)
 
boz, what are you going on about? trendsta has already said he's not into short term trading. Who even said anything about trading anyway?

A few of us here are simply congratulation trendsta on some fabulously correct predictions from two threads in 18 months, simple as that mate. I can just go back a few pages on this thread and see trendsta's predictions have been a lot more accuate than yours.

See ya's.
 
I can just go back a few pages on this thread and see trendsta's predictions have been a lot more accuate than yours.

See ya's.

yeah, probably that is what peeves me :eek:
I think in a trading way too often and not really consider the investing and forget about it strategy.
If I would have had the view of trendsta and invest in november with the view of market dropping max 10% I would have got stop loss out of the market one week after (and lost 10%). Probably then stay out from the market waiting for the irrationality to get back normal and would got back in in March when the uptrend and bottom was more clear.
But I am not that bad as I picked the bottom of gold mining stock back in november and I picked some energy stock in february (but I sold them too early and missed most of gains, I just guess I am waiting for market to get back rational ;) )
 
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boz, what are you going on about? trendsta has already said he's not into short term trading. Who even said anything about trading anyway?

A few of us here are simply congratulation trendsta on some fabulously correct predictions from two threads in 18 months, simple as that mate. I can just go back a few pages on this thread and see trendsta's predictions have been a lot more accuate than yours.

See ya's.

Agreed. Hes done pretty good, nice work :)
 
its been a while, so i thought i'd venture on and see whats happening.

Its been a really big year for me. Bought a PPOR at Sydney bayside suburb not far from water, on big land, with ability to build duplex - for what i considered a good price. Its a shabby old house, requiring quite abit of reno, but I think with some money spent it will def be worthy of living for next 10 years .. maybe after that will build a duplex..

Put in a offer around april this year when it was still unclear what was happening in higher end prop market ... but i saw the lower north shore (where i was also looking) inch up and decided to take action. It took a long while to negotiate as the price was only 10% above what the vendor/investor payed more than 6 years ago...

Also bought substantial shares starting with oct last year 3900, then nov 3400, then dec 3400, then jan 3200.. by march i was too scared and was waiting for 3000 to break before adding to it... ohh hindsight... so far its been really good.

Am concerned with the speed of recovery in the markets. In a way it reflects the economic recovery in US etc.. from -6% gdp in Q408 and Q109 to whats likely to be 4% GDP growth in Q409. Where to from there... will wirte my views later, when have some more time..

take care and happy investing.
 
Put in a offer around april this year when it was still unclear what was happening in higher end prop market ... but i saw the lower north shore (where i was also looking) inch up and decided to take action. It took a long while to negotiate as the price was only 10% above what the vendor/investor payed more than 6 years ago...

Also bought substantial shares starting with oct last year 3900, then nov 3400, then dec 3400, then jan 3200.. by march i was too scared and was waiting for 3000 to break before adding to it... ohh hindsight... so far its been really good.

It's always good to look back at these old posts,now it's just a waiting game once the "ASX" breaks into and above the 5000 mark again,that's good to see you bought into those low levels,you would have to be above
50% from the prices paid at those levels-well done-..willair..imho..
 
That chart is essentially the same as the one I posted, except that it's using a linear scale rather than log. I think that distorts the picture over such a large range, which is why your lower trend line doesn't touch all three points and shows the current price still significantly above it.

GP

GP,

based on your charting of XAO from 87 to the lows (around Nov08 I think your chart was done), would an extrapolation of this trendline mean that we are not going to see back into the 7000's plus until around 2017? If I extend the trend line its sometime around this date that it gets back up there.....??

I'd appreciate your thoughts on that, thanks.

Tim
 
.... so where to from here.. equity markets have exploded from the lows. They have been backed by turn in various economic indicators and also earnings beating forecasts .. short term the market is stretched up.

Economically I think sept, dec and 2010 march qtr will be quite strong. After that period we may see a short slump as govt driven demand is wound back and consumer led demand starts taking over ... it takes a while so likely there is slump period during the transition. Mayeb a V followed by a U ... but with the "U" being much shallower and bit more prolonged than the first V..

Longer term US is still in difficult situation ... exploding govt debt, higher unemployment, retiring baby boomers etc etc. This financial mess has accelerated what started earlier this decade.. rise of china and emerging countries and slow decline of US. US will stay dominant for long time but its share will diminish ... europe and japan are in worse situation as their demographics are even worse.

China, India and emerging countries should continue decent growth despite sluggish growth in US, europe... We will start to see 'some' decoupling .. decoupling takes a long time - decades for substantial decoupling esp from a massive market like US / Europe ... so as US and europe slump , emerging countires will also slow, but it will be less pronounced.

Resi property wise things have also changed. My initial view when the crisis started in late 07 was that equities would bottom, then a while later unemployment will bottom then prop would bottom some time later. But things changed, e.g. govt didnt cut immigration by huge amount like in 92-93, building approvals and construction went down to multi decade lows, and unemployment in aus stayed stubbornly low. The govt propped the lower end and monetary and fiscal policy was used.

The govt has gone into sooo much debt now that if govt hasnt planned major infra (road, rail whatever) its unlikely to be built in next 10 years. This combined with mismatched govt policies is going to support prop prices - e.g. fed govt sets immigration quota and baby bonuses (boosting demand and future demand) and state / local govt is responsible for providing much of the infra, building approvals , setting duties etc etc. Well with the latest population projections its obvious fed govt will maintain a high immigration level and at same time the state govts are close to their limit on debt.. Also construction companies are still finidng it difficult to finance and bring supply quickly to market, and this will likely continue for a while.. Likely impact large demand , not much more supply ... impacts prices...

i mean to reduce house prices is not that hard esp in australia.. fundamentally we shouldnt have such high prices ...

but in the end it is what it is, and am not going to fight it, because its not something thats likely to change soon... so might as well benefit from it...
 
.... so where to from here.. equity markets have exploded from the lows. They have been backed by turn in various economic indicators and also earnings beating forecasts .. short term the market is stretched up.

Economically I think sept, dec and 2010 march qtr will be quite strong. After that period we may see a short slump as govt driven demand is wound back and consumer led demand starts taking over ... it takes a while so likely there is slump period during the transition. Mayeb a V followed by a U ... but with the "U" being much shallower and bit more prolonged than the first V..

Longer term US is still in difficult situation ... exploding govt debt, higher unemployment, retiring baby boomers etc etc. This financial mess has accelerated what started earlier this decade.. rise of china and emerging countries and slow decline of US. US will stay dominant for long time but its share will diminish ... europe and japan are in worse situation as their demographics are even worse.

China, India and emerging countries should continue decent growth despite sluggish growth in US, europe... We will start to see 'some' decoupling .. decoupling takes a long time - decades for substantial decoupling esp from a massive market like US / Europe ... so as US and europe slump , emerging countires will also slow, but it will be less pronounced.

Resi property wise things have also changed. My initial view when the crisis started in late 07 was that equities would bottom, then a while later unemployment will bottom then prop would bottom some time later. But things changed, e.g. govt didnt cut immigration by huge amount like in 92-93, building approvals and construction went down to multi decade lows, and unemployment in aus stayed stubbornly low. The govt propped the lower end and monetary and fiscal policy was used.

The govt has gone into sooo much debt now that if govt hasnt planned major infra (road, rail whatever) its unlikely to be built in next 10 years. This combined with mismatched govt policies is going to support prop prices - e.g. fed govt sets immigration quota and baby bonuses (boosting demand and future demand) and state / local govt is responsible for providing much of the infra, building approvals , setting duties etc etc. Well with the latest population projections its obvious fed govt will maintain a high immigration level and at same time the state govts are close to their limit on debt.. Also construction companies are still finidng it difficult to finance and bring supply quickly to market, and this will likely continue for a while.. Likely impact large demand , not much more supply ... impacts prices...

i mean to reduce house prices is not that hard esp in australia.. fundamentally we shouldnt have such high prices ...

but in the end it is what it is, and am not going to fight it, because its not something thats likely to change soon... so might as well benefit from it...
So, Trendsta, where do you put your money now? still in sharemarket or you deleverage and put them in the house you bought back in april (or you already did back then).

I don't agree that Europe is in a worse shape then US, may be England, ireland and spain and some easter EU countries are as bad as US. I think the EU and specially euroland is very solid. For sure there is not much deleveraging to be done in euroland, internal consumption will be far less effected and dependent on public spending by a new GFC then Australia-NZL or US-UK. Europe will be more effected by commodity prices as they still have an industrial/manufacturing output. I am not to worried about demographic as in many country those people retiring have accumulated enough savings, if globalisation will survive the world demographic and emerging market demographic will play the big role, so if demand from western country will be less this can be somewhat compensated somewhere else.
I think stimulus effect will be reduced far before the first quarter of next year and the slowdown can come much earlier then that. But it is hard to say because Japan for example have been artificially stimulating the economy for 20 years and still not over, to me doesn't seems US and Australia is following a different path then Japan and both might end up like Japan with 200% public deficit. I have a good chart that show the debt path of Japan and even with a rising public debt the overall debt is going down (deflation).
JapanDebtToGDP.jpg
 
Still in the sharemarket… will ride it for as long as it wants to go. A lot of positive news and sentiment are building up, esp domestically, so since about June domestic stocks like banks etc have performed very well… I didn’t pick up any banks, but they done very well … I think element of euphoria is starting to set in, and by xmas we may be looking at higher level on stockmarkets as various positives continue aligning… I will re-assess my position then (or earlier if the situation and my views change)…

Am also looking to increase prop holdings, but not going to jump in at any time, and will look for a great deal where the numbers add up..

Re US vs Europe. For me the demographics are one of the biggest fundamental factors, and drive large shifts and underlying trends. The reason is simple economy is just a collective actions of many individuals – individuals make the economy … now if the population is decreasing / ageing etc it has a massive consequence… its naturally deflationary, taking other factors out.. this is because the peak population represents peak economy and as population diminishes the there is less internal demand thus in time the peak economy diminishes. The way out is to increase exports etc, but for Europe this is pretty tough with china already taking a major share which is ever increasing… so Europe in long long term not all that great.. sure it’s a generalisation and some parts will shine.. but genrally the demographics are a massive barrier. I am of firm belief that demographics have played a role in the Japan situation and will do similar to Europe.

Hence I think long long term (> 10 years) Europe is in worse state than US.

Personally I’m at cross roads and would love getting advise from others / potential mentors. I have reached where I want to be in my career and next step requires major education and commitment (time and money for MBA). I love investing etc, but am not financially independent yet. I also would like to start my own business .. So I am at cross roads and am unsure what to do … hmm … I would really like to meet up with some like minded people, especially those who have been down this road and share thoughts with them …

Anyways, this thread title is misleading, as i started being positive since November 08 ... time to start a new thread with new title ..
 
in blue :cool:

.... so where to from here.. equity markets have exploded from the lows. They have been backed by turn in various economic indicators and also earnings beating forecasts .. short term the market is stretched up.

"stretched" is the word!!!! i think there's a little profit takign to be had in the very near term - possibly before the end of October.

Economically I think sept, dec and 2010 march qtr will be quite strong. After that period we may see a short slump as govt driven demand is wound back and consumer led demand starts taking over ... it takes a while so likely there is slump period during the transition. Mayeb a V followed by a U ... but with the "U" being much shallower and bit more prolonged than the first V..

there has to be some profit taking soon - we've seen bugger all recently (i was expecting the break below 4650 to signal a take down to ~4350) - i don't call a 200pt move a "profit take".

Longer term US is still in difficult situation ... exploding govt debt, higher unemployment, retiring baby boomers etc etc. This financial mess has accelerated what started earlier this decade.. rise of china and emerging countries and slow decline of US. US will stay dominant for long time but its share will diminish ... europe and japan are in worse situation as their demographics are even worse.

i worry about the US. on one hand, i feel they've devalued their dollar on purpose by printing printing and ... hmm ... printing. on the other hand - that does nothing for their debt problem - it's almost a "double dissolution" of their dollar. i truly feel that the US have seen the beginning of the end in the past few months - with still more banks' immenent collapse and UE still rising, you could very likely see a nation with nothing supplied for it's taxes paid.

the EU only has itself to blame. the EU have done nothing but red tape everything at the expense of it's own health and wellbeing for the sake of "progress" and to quote HiEquity - "We must do something! This is something! Therefore we must do this!"


China, India and emerging countries should continue decent growth despite sluggish growth in US, europe... We will start to see 'some' decoupling .. decoupling takes a long time - decades for substantial decoupling esp from a massive market like US / Europe ... so as US and europe slump , emerging countires will also slow, but it will be less pronounced.

i feel the decoupling will be swift and painless for those not heavily tied to the US dollar. Countries like Iran and Russia have long called for the oil standard to use the Euro - you may find they have a system in place waiting to implement. Australia is still trading USD, but we are seeing a reduction, being replaced with other major currencies equally.

I think what is making real headroom with emerging currencies is that you have countries like China and India and Indonesia producing a "new for them" middle class who are spending. On the other side of the planet there are countries like the UK and USA who have a widening gap between classes - soon there'll just be working poor and investing rich and zero middle class. if the history of economics has taught us nothing else, it's that the middle class SPEND. in a financial system designed around this model, means no middle class - no public and private revenue.


Resi property wise things have also changed. My initial view when the crisis started in late 07 was that equities would bottom, then a while later unemployment will bottom then prop would bottom some time later. But things changed, e.g. govt didnt cut immigration by huge amount like in 92-93, building approvals and construction went down to multi decade lows, and unemployment in aus stayed stubbornly low. The govt propped the lower end and monetary and fiscal policy was used.

The govt has gone into sooo much debt now that if govt hasnt planned major infra (road, rail whatever) its unlikely to be built in next 10 years.

shades of about 10 years ago where i remember Perth was crumbling - bad roads, bad hospitals, no teachers, no cops. now we have good roads, more cops and still bad education and health. good to see the govt have their priorities right....:rolleyes:...all off the back of resources.

i think even if it IS planned, it'll be shelved.


This combined with mismatched govt policies is going to support prop prices - e.g. fed govt sets immigration quota and baby bonuses (boosting demand and future demand) and state / local govt is responsible for providing much of the infra, building approvals , setting duties etc etc. Well with the latest population projections its obvious fed govt will maintain a high immigration level and at same time the state govts are close to their limit on debt.. Also construction companies are still finidng it difficult to finance and bring supply quickly to market, and this will likely continue for a while.. Likely impact large demand , not much more supply ... impacts prices...

i mean to reduce house prices is not that hard esp in australia.. fundamentally we shouldnt have such high prices ...

but in the end it is what it is, and am not going to fight it, because its not something thats likely to change soon... so might as well benefit from it...

you said it. fundamentally it might not be right, but it is what it is; and you can't fight that - so trade with it.
 
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