How much would you pay?
- Thread starter BayView
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Re: Rescue Dogs.
We are on the lookout for a new Jack Russell and have been trawling the rescue dog places.
Got onto one the other day and the woman asked lots of questions, fair enough I spose, but then started the diatribe about how the dog is to have another dog friend, we answered yes we have a Border Collie (not yet born) on the way.
She said no way, too big and rough. I was gobsmacked at that.
Demands that the dog sleeps inside at night, is allowed all through the house all day and never ever to be left alone.
Wife was speaking to her actually and got very upset as this woman had no idea how well we look after our pets and basically refused us any further ado.
Now we have had dogs all our lives and bred Border Collies for a time. We have a great setup here 6 acres with the house yard fully fenced in approx 1ac, plenty of shelter, one of us is around most of the time and yes when it's really hot or cold the dog can come inside and lay on it's bed but not to be running wild around the house. We go rabbiting, and take long walks and trips in the ute, all our dogs have loved the back of the ute and they have all been very well looked after and loved.
So what is wrong with us...?
Seems this person does not want the dog(s) to leave her so called care.
All I want to do is call her back and ask when was it that dogs started to build houses...? Absolute nutter............
Try not to take it personally.
They are wanting to find the best possible home. Maybe ask to speak with a supervisor and explain that getting this alone time to bond is best for the Jack Russell, before he becomes older sibling to a new puppy.
Say yes to whatever rules they ask of you, and then you can determine after you are owner, what is best for the dog and your family.
I think they are just trying to keep the dog from being tied outside all day, everyday.
At our SPCA they call landlords and ask if the tenants have permission to adopt a dog.(we've been called) They also have very similar rules. They must be desexed, and cats are required to be indoor pets.
I did hear one person was banned from getting another pet from the SPCA because they didn't follow up with desexing.
At the Roadhouse, they have/had 3 dogs. A labrador,a jack russell (who was accidentally killed a few months ago) and the son of the jack russell (a mutt).
This jack russell was the boss,and leader of the pack.
I have a Weimeraner - she is purebred and did cost $1500. Since owning her (18mths) I have joined the Wei Association and helped other members by looking after their dogs when on holidays and also fostering one who was surrendered by his owners until his new owners could have them.
I highly encourage people to look at rescue dogs. They aren't all easy but many of them come with training and help from an association.
Dogz Online carry a wide range of ads for rescue dogs
http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/rescue.asp
Our dog's brother lives in the next suburb and we catch up regularly - they are a hoot together!
I highly encourage people to look at rescue dogs. They aren't all easy but many of them come with training and help from an association.
Dogz Online carry a wide range of ads for rescue dogs
http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/rescue.asp
Our dog's brother lives in the next suburb and we catch up regularly - they are a hoot together!
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Re: Rescue Dogs.
We are on the lookout for a new Jack Russell and have been trawling the rescue dog places.
Got onto one the other day and the woman asked lots of questions, fair enough I spose, but then started the diatribe about how the dog is to have another dog friend, we answered yes we have a Border Collie (not yet born) on the way.
She said no way, too big and rough. I was gobsmacked at that.
Demands that the dog sleeps inside at night, is allowed all through the house all day and never ever to be left alone.
Wife was speaking to her actually and got very upset as this woman had no idea how well we look after our pets and basically refused us any further ado.
Now we have had dogs all our lives and bred Border Collies for a time. We have a great setup here 6 acres with the house yard fully fenced in approx 1ac, plenty of shelter, one of us is around most of the time and yes when it's really hot or cold the dog can come inside and lay on it's bed but not to be running wild around the house. We go rabbiting, and take long walks and trips in the ute, all our dogs have loved the back of the ute and they have all been very well looked after and loved.
So what is wrong with us...?
Seems this person does not want the dog(s) to leave her so called care.
All I want to do is call her back and ask when was it that dogs started to build houses...? Absolute nutter............
Hi Fence
I have started fostering rescue dogs and these are typical questions that must be asked. Don't take it personal, its really just about finding the most suitable home for the dog.
You sound like a great dog lover.
I personally believe if anyone wants to own a dog and is not prepared to treat it as part of the family then they should just forget it.
Its sad when someone does take on a rescue dog and then returns it or worse trys to sell it.
Cheers, MTR
I agree The Fence - her questions were bordering on pathetic.
She cannot possibly know or control the new Owner's behaviour, and has no right to.
Abusing a dog is one thing, putting barriers up that can neither be substantiated or policed, and simply are judged by her on some 5 minute gut feel is very wrong.
My advice is tell her to go jump in the lake and buy your dog from someone else who doesn't wear self imposed jackboots.
She cannot possibly know or control the new Owner's behaviour, and has no right to.
Abusing a dog is one thing, putting barriers up that can neither be substantiated or policed, and simply are judged by her on some 5 minute gut feel is very wrong.
My advice is tell her to go jump in the lake and buy your dog from someone else who doesn't wear self imposed jackboots.
I agree with making your dog part of family life but they are not human. Many so called "dog lovers " forget that.
A dog is a pack animal and if you treat them like a member of the family you run the risk of attacks on family membersor behavioural problems depending upon how the dog sees itself in the pack.
It should be People first....then the dog.
Don't get me wrong as our dogs are most loved and each time I have to bury a dog I am a terrible mess.
And I agree there are qualifying questions that need to be answered however...
There is a time and place for dogs and we believe dogs like outdoors much better than indoors and that is the way we keep them, with all the security and appropriate shelter needed of course. But to demand they are allowed to be all thru the house and sleep inside every night is unrealistic, especially so when they have an acre of house garden to roam on and a greater area when along side us in the paddocks or elsewhere in travels.
And the comment about how this dog had to have a friend of the same size so as to be not too rough is bonkers.
Daz....yes we took your advice and had another family member ring giving what we thought were answers that would secure the dog but oh no, this time the excuse was the yard may not be secure enough....FFS !!
Yet the yard is actually rabbit, snake, and dog proof.
Absolutely no right to refuse us and as I said earlier a complete nutter who lives in la la land where dogs rule the roost.
These are the Facts
Dogs crave human companionship, that's why they thrive and behave better when living indoors with their pack, their human family members.
This is substantiated by the experience of rescue volunteers and shelter workers as well as trainers, vets and animal welfare associations nationwide.
Misconception about dogs is the belief that they will be healthy and happy living only in the backyard. However, nothing could be further from the truth.
This is fact - Backyard dogs are more often given up than house dogs because they were never looked upon as family by their human pack. Sadly, that means they are easier to dispose of. Backyard dogs do not have the opportunity to become socialised to people and other dogs, and may become so fearful or even vicious that they may have to be euthanised.
At a minimum, I personally believe dogs should have access to living space whenever you are home, including sleeping inside your house at night. So for those who love their dogs, no biggy here....
Just the fact that your dog can lay quietly at your feet while you watch TV, work at your computer or sleep, is very important to his/her mental well-being.
It used to be that most people did spend a lot of time in the yard; playing, working, gardening, and socialising. Now with computers, televisions etc, and hectic schedules, we actually spend about 75% less time outdoors in our yards, and therefore less time with our devoted little pooch.
Cheers, MTR
Dogs crave human companionship, that's why they thrive and behave better when living indoors with their pack, their human family members.
This is substantiated by the experience of rescue volunteers and shelter workers as well as trainers, vets and animal welfare associations nationwide.
Misconception about dogs is the belief that they will be healthy and happy living only in the backyard. However, nothing could be further from the truth.
This is fact - Backyard dogs are more often given up than house dogs because they were never looked upon as family by their human pack. Sadly, that means they are easier to dispose of. Backyard dogs do not have the opportunity to become socialised to people and other dogs, and may become so fearful or even vicious that they may have to be euthanised.
At a minimum, I personally believe dogs should have access to living space whenever you are home, including sleeping inside your house at night. So for those who love their dogs, no biggy here....
Just the fact that your dog can lay quietly at your feet while you watch TV, work at your computer or sleep, is very important to his/her mental well-being.
It used to be that most people did spend a lot of time in the yard; playing, working, gardening, and socialising. Now with computers, televisions etc, and hectic schedules, we actually spend about 75% less time outdoors in our yards, and therefore less time with our devoted little pooch.
Cheers, MTR
Speak for yourself mate that's not the way things work in the real world around here.
A dog is a dog and they belong outside. Dogs are a natural animal who have natural instincts. Of course they are companions as well but not exclusively.
I agree suburban backyards are restrictive but we are talking about of a whole acre of grounds and plenty of interaction with us outside and beyond those grounds/territory. Little bit of inside time of an evening but back out where they belong and much prefer to be in our experience with our dogs who happen to adore us as much as we do them.
Our dogs are also extremely well mannered and behaved because we teach them to be that way as they know who is the pack leader and when a dog knows who the leader is they are much happier in going about their daily lives knowing full well where they stand.
These are facts according to just about every country person with dogs we know of who have well adjusted pets that are well looked after and plainly happy animals without the "need" to live inside the house.
Do you have IP"s and allow pets to live inside ?
A dog is a dog and they belong outside. Dogs are a natural animal who have natural instincts. Of course they are companions as well but not exclusively.
I agree suburban backyards are restrictive but we are talking about of a whole acre of grounds and plenty of interaction with us outside and beyond those grounds/territory. Little bit of inside time of an evening but back out where they belong and much prefer to be in our experience with our dogs who happen to adore us as much as we do them.
Our dogs are also extremely well mannered and behaved because we teach them to be that way as they know who is the pack leader and when a dog knows who the leader is they are much happier in going about their daily lives knowing full well where they stand.
These are facts according to just about every country person with dogs we know of who have well adjusted pets that are well looked after and plainly happy animals without the "need" to live inside the house.
Do you have IP"s and allow pets to live inside ?
Hi Fence
You got the wrong end of the stick, this is not an attack on you and how you manage your dogs.
I was replying to your original question about your issue with rescue organisations and their views/criteria with regards to dogs living indoors etc. as I am involved with a rescue group in Perth. I agree with their views when it comes to this but I also can understand your frustration.
Cheers, MTR
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That's fine MTR, but really why do dogs "need" to live inside?
Honestly, they are a natural animal that has no skill enough to build a house so why do they "need" to be inside?
The other thing gets me is some people say you should cook food for your dogs....my question is, when did dogs start to cook their food in the wild, if ever...and how?
Dogs eat what they can catch and it is usually meat from some animal they have hunted down, and they eat it raw.
My last Jack Russell caught rabbits often around here and she would proceed to eat the whole thing, fur, guts, head and all and leave just a bit of fluff on the lawn where you could identify the scene.
She would then refuse her chicken necks (raw of course) we fed her for a day then take them up the next day and so on until she caught her next feed.
She would also find some cow or horse **** or some dead animal and roll in it to deck herself out in the latest "perfume".
Disgusting I know, but that's what dogs do. I didnt teach her to do it. It comes naturally and is part of their scenting program which is quite complex yet we smear perfumed shampoos on them that wreck their coats and disguise their prefered scents they would like to have eminating from their hide.
They also like to dig holes and lay in them. And no, it's not naughty, it's to get down below the ground level so the wind and weather can go over the top or in warm weather to stay cool against the fresh soil.
That's as natural as can be dont you think?
I have seen people serve dinner, exactly the same as they would eat, to their dogs like a roast dinner, gravy and all, and yet those dogs were fat as hell, could hardly walk & breathe and terribly unhealthy... yet these people thought I was being cruel for having the dog on the back of the ute and not inside on the seat...!
However, I would open the door of the ute and say get in and the dog would jump into the back tray....go figure...?
When we eat we growl at the dog and they slink away and dont sit and stare at us while eating. That's what they do when they eat, they growl at any threat to their food and prefer privacy while eating, therefor we leave them at peace with their tucker time.
Fairdinkum, people should realise that dogs eat differently to us, they behave differently to us and they ARE completely different to us so should stop trying to make them human.
I fully agree that they are companion animals, but that word, animals, is the kicker. It's easy to make them human like, but this is tricks not natural.
I also appreciate that rescue people are trying to save dogs from the terrible lives they often finds dogs caught up in but I find this humanising of dogs offensive and have observed first hand how that it is just as detrimental to the dogs as any complaint of neglect.
Anyway, we shall agree to disagree fair enough, but we prefer to go the as natural as possible way and have found our dogs to be very happy & healthy as a result.
Cheers!
Honestly, they are a natural animal that has no skill enough to build a house so why do they "need" to be inside?
The other thing gets me is some people say you should cook food for your dogs....my question is, when did dogs start to cook their food in the wild, if ever...and how?
Dogs eat what they can catch and it is usually meat from some animal they have hunted down, and they eat it raw.
My last Jack Russell caught rabbits often around here and she would proceed to eat the whole thing, fur, guts, head and all and leave just a bit of fluff on the lawn where you could identify the scene.
She would then refuse her chicken necks (raw of course) we fed her for a day then take them up the next day and so on until she caught her next feed.
She would also find some cow or horse **** or some dead animal and roll in it to deck herself out in the latest "perfume".
Disgusting I know, but that's what dogs do. I didnt teach her to do it. It comes naturally and is part of their scenting program which is quite complex yet we smear perfumed shampoos on them that wreck their coats and disguise their prefered scents they would like to have eminating from their hide.
They also like to dig holes and lay in them. And no, it's not naughty, it's to get down below the ground level so the wind and weather can go over the top or in warm weather to stay cool against the fresh soil.
That's as natural as can be dont you think?
I have seen people serve dinner, exactly the same as they would eat, to their dogs like a roast dinner, gravy and all, and yet those dogs were fat as hell, could hardly walk & breathe and terribly unhealthy... yet these people thought I was being cruel for having the dog on the back of the ute and not inside on the seat...!
However, I would open the door of the ute and say get in and the dog would jump into the back tray....go figure...?
When we eat we growl at the dog and they slink away and dont sit and stare at us while eating. That's what they do when they eat, they growl at any threat to their food and prefer privacy while eating, therefor we leave them at peace with their tucker time.
Fairdinkum, people should realise that dogs eat differently to us, they behave differently to us and they ARE completely different to us so should stop trying to make them human.
I fully agree that they are companion animals, but that word, animals, is the kicker. It's easy to make them human like, but this is tricks not natural.
I also appreciate that rescue people are trying to save dogs from the terrible lives they often finds dogs caught up in but I find this humanising of dogs offensive and have observed first hand how that it is just as detrimental to the dogs as any complaint of neglect.
Anyway, we shall agree to disagree fair enough, but we prefer to go the as natural as possible way and have found our dogs to be very happy & healthy as a result.
Cheers!
I'm not a dog owner so I don't know an awful lot about canine behaviour, but I feel sorry for a lot of suburban dogs.
It's not that they're kept outside, but that their owners work full time and the dogs are kept outside in a fairly small and unstimulating yard with no company and nothing much to do so they bark and dig all day long in frustration, sometimes even neurotically gnawing at themselves until they bleed etc..
They'd be just as frustrated inside under such circumstances - possibly even more so because they couldn't even relieve themselves, sniff the outdoors or dig a hole.
My understanding is that many breeds of dogs are happier when they have something to do, that they like to feel busy. To provide that stimulation to a suburban dog requires a lot of walks and ball games. Not all suburban dogs get that and it seems to make them neurotic. It also seems to make them emotionally too needy for their owners love/attention.
Farm dogs, in comparison, generally get loads of stimulation and tend to be less neurotic and emotionally needy, more well-rounded.
I know little of dogs, so feel free to correct me of any of that.
It's not that they're kept outside, but that their owners work full time and the dogs are kept outside in a fairly small and unstimulating yard with no company and nothing much to do so they bark and dig all day long in frustration, sometimes even neurotically gnawing at themselves until they bleed etc..
They'd be just as frustrated inside under such circumstances - possibly even more so because they couldn't even relieve themselves, sniff the outdoors or dig a hole.
My understanding is that many breeds of dogs are happier when they have something to do, that they like to feel busy. To provide that stimulation to a suburban dog requires a lot of walks and ball games. Not all suburban dogs get that and it seems to make them neurotic. It also seems to make them emotionally too needy for their owners love/attention.
Farm dogs, in comparison, generally get loads of stimulation and tend to be less neurotic and emotionally needy, more well-rounded.
I know little of dogs, so feel free to correct me of any of that.
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I'd have to agree completely Fifth.
The only other thing to add to that is that dogs do a lot of sleeping, but it is erratic (compared to humans) lots of short sleeps and rarely hours upon hours of unbroken sleep.
The suburban yard (or any yard really)constant barking is caused by separation anxiety when the owner leaves them alone.
This is why we prefer to keep the dog as natural as possible, getting attached sure but not so much as they entirely rely on us and our exclusive company. Hence none of our dogs have shown signs of separation anx. Having more than one dog does not mitigate this either as we had 3 dogs next door once and they barked all day when owner was gone. But the fact is that these dogs never saw the outside of their yard, ever! Very sad.
It's all about thinking like a dog when owning a dog, not thinking like a human.
The only other thing to add to that is that dogs do a lot of sleeping, but it is erratic (compared to humans) lots of short sleeps and rarely hours upon hours of unbroken sleep.
The suburban yard (or any yard really)constant barking is caused by separation anxiety when the owner leaves them alone.
This is why we prefer to keep the dog as natural as possible, getting attached sure but not so much as they entirely rely on us and our exclusive company. Hence none of our dogs have shown signs of separation anx. Having more than one dog does not mitigate this either as we had 3 dogs next door once and they barked all day when owner was gone. But the fact is that these dogs never saw the outside of their yard, ever! Very sad.
It's all about thinking like a dog when owning a dog, not thinking like a human.
That's fine MTR, but really why do dogs "need" to live inside?
Honestly, they are a natural animal that has no skill enough to build a house so why do they "need" to be inside?
The other thing gets me is some people say you should cook food for your dogs....my question is, when did dogs start to cook their food in the wild, if ever...and how?
Dogs eat what they can catch and it is usually meat from some animal they have hunted down, and they eat it raw.
My last Jack Russell caught rabbits often around here and she would proceed to eat the whole thing, fur, guts, head and all and leave just a bit of fluff on the lawn where you could identify the scene.
She would then refuse her chicken necks (raw of course) we fed her for a day then take them up the next day and so on until she caught her next feed.
She would also find some cow or horse **** or some dead animal and roll in it to deck herself out in the latest "perfume".
Disgusting I know, but that's what dogs do. I didnt teach her to do it. It comes naturally and is part of their scenting program which is quite complex yet we smear perfumed shampoos on them that wreck their coats and disguise their prefered scents they would like to have eminating from their hide.
They also like to dig holes and lay in them. And no, it's not naughty, it's to get down below the ground level so the wind and weather can go over the top or in warm weather to stay cool against the fresh soil.
That's as natural as can be dont you think?
I have seen people serve dinner, exactly the same as they would eat, to their dogs like a roast dinner, gravy and all, and yet those dogs were fat as hell, could hardly walk & breathe and terribly unhealthy... yet these people thought I was being cruel for having the dog on the back of the ute and not inside on the seat...!
However, I would open the door of the ute and say get in and the dog would jump into the back tray....go figure...?
When we eat we growl at the dog and they slink away and dont sit and stare at us while eating. That's what they do when they eat, they growl at any threat to their food and prefer privacy while eating, therefor we leave them at peace with their tucker time.
Fairdinkum, people should realise that dogs eat differently to us, they behave differently to us and they ARE completely different to us so should stop trying to make them human.
I fully agree that they are companion animals, but that word, animals, is the kicker. It's easy to make them human like, but this is tricks not natural.
I also appreciate that rescue people are trying to save dogs from the terrible lives they often finds dogs caught up in but I find this humanising of dogs offensive and have observed first hand how that it is just as detrimental to the dogs as any complaint of neglect.
Anyway, we shall agree to disagree fair enough, but we prefer to go the as natural as possible way and have found our dogs to be very happy & healthy as a result.
Cheers!
Good post.
They are animals that are loyal and great to have around. They are not surrogate children.
I have two Groodles (Golden Retriever x Poodles) and will never buy or own another dog. Paid around $700 for the male who is now 5 and $500 for the female that we had flown to us from Queensland because her original family couldn't look after her anymore. They are one of the smartest and loving dogs that I have ever known (and my family has had a few different breeds over the years). We have bred from the pair and the waiting list for these dogs is incredible. We invite prospective owners into our home to view the parents and other pups and have never had a bad report on the behaviour of any of our pups. Groodle pups can range in price from $750 all the way up to $2000 But my opinion is that if you're going to buy a dog for a companion (and many live over ten years), price shouldn't come into it.
But my opinion is that if you're going to buy a dog for a companion (and many live over ten years), price shouldn't come into it.For those who work, I have the solution its a "doggy door", access to both, would not be without this.
http://www.petdoorsaust.com.au/
Cheers, MTR
That isn't really a solution if the dog is alone all day with little stimulation. My point was, it isn't so much about indoors vs outdoors as it is boredom and loneliness. If a dog is treated as a member of the family and has no real purpose outside of that, the dog becomes too emotionally reliant upon their owner and will feel abandoned if left alone for long periods. I'm sure there are plenty of dogs who cope well under these circumstances but a lot don't.
Right again Fifth.
I wonder how many people teach their dogs to "stay".
One of the first things we do as it assures the dog that we will be back after leaving the lair. And goes without saying there should be a small reward when you arrive back to build the trust and faith.
Sometimes they can come along and sometimes not but when told to 'stay' there is no confusion for the dog as the pack leader has set the agenda and trust/faith kicks in.
It's all about consistency and thinking like a canine not trying to humanise them.
They don't understand English enough to make reason, like....."I'm off to work now so you be a good boy and don't bark"
When teaching to 'stay', one should be able to set the dog and then walk away until out of sight without the dog following. Upon return, reward. Simple building of trust.
How much would I pay?
Never paid a cent for a dog yet apart from the obligatory vaccination, chipping and desexing etc.
Next pup will be a brown & white border collie given to us by a friend. Only ever had one dog at a time and the dog never needed another friend as they had us.
I wonder how many people teach their dogs to "stay".
One of the first things we do as it assures the dog that we will be back after leaving the lair. And goes without saying there should be a small reward when you arrive back to build the trust and faith.
Sometimes they can come along and sometimes not but when told to 'stay' there is no confusion for the dog as the pack leader has set the agenda and trust/faith kicks in.
It's all about consistency and thinking like a canine not trying to humanise them.
They don't understand English enough to make reason, like....."I'm off to work now so you be a good boy and don't bark"
When teaching to 'stay', one should be able to set the dog and then walk away until out of sight without the dog following. Upon return, reward. Simple building of trust.
How much would I pay?
Never paid a cent for a dog yet apart from the obligatory vaccination, chipping and desexing etc.
Next pup will be a brown & white border collie given to us by a friend. Only ever had one dog at a time and the dog never needed another friend as they had us.
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