I could live there!

Steve - i think you are wrong. These places I mentioned maybe further out but they have all the infrastructure that anyone would need.

Nothing new here. 30 years ago our parents also moved out and created these suburbs. Its the new generation that wants it all inclduing living near the city.

Your tone is very defensive.
 
Yes, I do tend to get defensive when someone calls people 'whiners' for simply stating the truth of the matter - that housing affordability is at or near historical lows.

Check out this graph from the RBA that shows house price to income ratios.

0.4448!OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif


Show me the suburb where I can get an average house for 2.6 times the average income.
 
Show me the suburb where I can get an average house for 2.6 times the average income.

I don't know about Sydney but Aussierogue listed some around Melbourne in the OP.

My parents moved out to the 'burbs to get a head start when the 'burbs were unmade roads and services were in short supply. Why does your generation feel that it's entitled to anything different. Oh that's right, because gen-Y are also known as the Entitled Generation.
 
Affordability is down - Fact
Unwillingness to look out to the burbs for a substitute house until they can work their way up - Fact
Uneducation as to the benefits of investing in IP's, and taking chunks out of the premium house dream - Fact

This whole situation, works in our favour as an IP owner with multiple properties, keeping the IP investment segment ticking along nicely
 
Guys instead of fighting against an moving shadow (house prices) adapt and thrive!

Every generation has its problems. Yes affordablity is low but there are options. This is what I am alluding too. Fight the fights that you can win or else just move on.

Is it not a fact that in Melbourne you can buy a house at 400k in say lilydale? Yes that is a fact. Is there anything wrong with Lilydale - no!
 
I don't know about Sydney but Aussierogue listed some around Melbourne in the OP.

Oh really? Care to point them out to me?

Australia has a per capita annual GDP of $50,000, so show me the typical middle class houses for $130,000.

My parents moved out to the 'burbs to get a head start when the 'burbs were unmade roads and services were in short supply. Why does your generation feel that it's entitled to anything different. Oh that's right, because gen-Y are also known as the Entitled Generation.

Yeah yeah, in your day you had to walk to school uphill both ways bare foot in the blistering cold. Told any kids to 'get off your lawn' lately?

Explain to me again how 'Generation Y' has a sense of entitlement for expecting housing to be as affordable as it was for their parents or grandparents?

Aussierogue, I take no issue with what you're saying, and I think your thread has some good info in it. My problem is with people who claim (either explicitly or otherwise) that housing is affordable as it always was, and that young people these days are just 'whiners' or some other nonsense.
 
My problem is with people who claim (either explicitly or otherwise) that housing is affordable as it always was, and that young people these days are just 'whiners' or some other nonsense.

I don't dispute that housing is more expensive today than when my parents bought their first home, however I do also think that Gen Y / younger people / whatever you want to call them also expect and want too much too fast. For example, "in my day" when I first got my license (and I'm only talking 12 years ago, not 30 or 40) it was standard that most people had a part time job and bought a 15-20 year old car for a few thousand or even a few hundred (mine was $300) which most had saved up for and had this for a few years. I didn't get my first brand new car until just recently, which I saved up cash for after buying my home. It's a Mazda 2, and the number of P plates I see on brand new Mazda 2 cars and similar makes me feel like I'm driving a teenage car. :eek: I wonder how many of them have taken out loans for their first car, their first major set back to getting their first home.

Then when it comes to their first home, rather than an older run down home a few suburbs out, that they could put a little bit of work into, they screw their nose up at. A house now has to have a new kitchen, new bathroom, new appliances etc. otherwise it's just "unliveable". When I was selling my Lilydale property not that long ago, the number of comments about how dated and bad the kitchen was, they simply could not live there. This was an older unit which I had done basic renovations to (painted, re-carpeted, re-tiled and other minor things) so it was very well presented and the kitchen was fully functional and tidy looking (and it was priced to take into account it's age), but still wasn't good enough despite it being a complete entry point property, and somehow I managed to live there for 8 years! :rolleyes:

I don't think people should fully blame Gen Y, I think their parents have a lot to do with their thinking. I had this discussion with a friend just recently in fact. We were talking about this exact thing, mortgage stress that families are facing etc. and I mentioned about how I think people expect too much too soon. They want everything new and all the latest gadets etc. and this friend who is Gen X said her kids get everything they want, and so she's probably feeding this expectation.

This is of course very generalised, there are many sensible Gen Y's who are doing well and there are many of them on this forum. And before a Gen Y such as Steve101 attacks me for my comments, I should declare that I'm borderline Gen Y myself. :p The point is, don't complain about property being too expensive, you can't change it. Accept it and sacrifice to make it happen. If that means living somewhere like Lilydale, so be it.
 
Oh really? Care to point them out to me?

Actually no, I don't care. I don't have to live there. You do. Find out yourself, it might be the first time a Gen-Y has done something without relying on somebody else to do it.

...that young people these days are just 'whiners' or some other nonsense.

Geez you've done a good job refuting that tonight.

Most of what you've said tonight only shows you to be a cariacture of your own generation. Well done.
 
Oh really? Care to point them out to me?


Stevo...maaate....yer gonna have to put out a bit harder than ask for a little clicky link. Old farts don't spoon feed.



Yeah yeah, in your day you had to walk to school uphill both ways bare foot in the blistering cold.


Classic stuff. Almost word for word with what my mother told me, except her story was up the Mundaring pipeline delivering milk before school. I blew it off too, until I walked it one day about 3 years ago. Knackered me.

My respect level for her went through the roof....and I guess that's what is missing from this whole generational thing - respect.
 
Yes, I do tend to get defensive when someone calls people 'whiners' for simply stating the truth of the matter - that housing affordability is at or near historical lows.

Check out this graph from the RBA that shows house price to income ratios.

0.4448!OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif


Show me the suburb where I can get an average house for 2.6 times the average income.
The simple fact is, if a person is talking about the difference between 1985 up till 2007 implies to me that they have never made a meaningful decision about the uncertainty that comes with property investing,or any investing at all..willair..
 
Yes, I do tend to get defensive when someone calls people 'whiners' for simply stating the truth of the matter - that housing affordability is at or near historical lows.

Well up until the the early 60s milk was delivered by horse & cart in Liverpool.
Many houses had oustide toilets.
The was hardly any infrastructure.
Busses were few and far between, and walking was fairly common.
Many had no telephone of any type, and televisions were black and white and mainly one per house.
Eating out for many was only at weddings.
And very few households had >1 car.

Move to those same conditions today and see how much cheaper it is relative to wages then the 50s & 50s.

In the 70s many were paying interest rates ~20% and would'nt get finance without 20% deposit and a steady job.
 
I've never thought much about the 'is it harder / easier now to buy a property'. At the same time, I don't care when older people tell me how easy I have it now with all the modern conveniences.

It's irrelevant. It is what it is. Prices are what they are. Even if property is less affordable now (and you have to balance higher prices with more opportunities to make money at an earlier age), so what? It's not going to change. You play the cards you are dealt, not complain about the rules. What's the point of complaining? Does anyone really think complaining about it will make things better?

Instead of complaining, which is useless, learn how to play the game instead. Clearly, plenty of young people have managed to buy multiple properties and become wealthy. Complaining doesn't make you richer or make that dream home more 'affordable' (whatever that means). You can't eat (or live in) moral victories.
 
Actually no, I don't care. I don't have to live there. You do. Find out yourself, it might be the first time a Gen-Y has done something without relying on somebody else to do it.

Actually, it was a rhetorical question - there aren't any middle class houses within an hour of Sydney for $130,000, particularly if you want to live in an area where you can go to the park without worrying about being stabbed. And actually, no, I don't need to live there - I work hard and have a good income, despite the fact that I am a lazy Gen Y'er.

Geez you've done a good job refuting that tonight.

Most of what you've said tonight only shows you to be a cariacture of your own generation. Well done.

I wasn't aware that using data and statistics to call someone out on their BS was whining. But what do I know, I am just a stupid Gen Y'er.

Honestly, the idea that someone can genuinely believe that an entire generation of people are 'whiners' because they have (presumably) met a couple of 'whiners' who happen to also be young people just blows my mind.

Are there lazy people in my age group? Of course there are. Is my generation any lazier than the generation before us? Or the generation before them? Unlikely. People are people - some will be lazy, some will be hardworking, and most will fall somewhere in the middle.
 
My starting salary out of high school (trainee accountant) was $13k (1989). We bought our first home in 1996 for $146k (11 times), tiny weatherboard house near Parramatta NSW. Not our ideal location, and I had to sell my car to raise the deposit.

Graduate salaries for that job are now around $55k, median house price in Sydney is a something like $600k (11 times), so you could argue that all things are relative and the difference is 3 years of uni and a bit of sacrifice :D!!!
 
Sure there is available housing out in the middle of nowhere, but if you want those little trivialities like a job, good schools and anything that even closely resembles a reasonable (< 1 hour each way) daily commute, you are SOL.

Oh go get off your high horse will you. OK, you want affordable suburbs, then go West. There are simply oodles of affordable houses in Western Sydney and Campbelltown area that are close to jobs, transport, good sporting facilities etc. Both areas can be done on a commute each day (my husband does).

Who gives a flying fig if that is where you WANT to live, or not? It is simple supply and demand my friend and since there is limited supply of housing close to the CBD, then those with the $$ will always price those without the $$ out of the market.

If you don't like reality, well tough, there it is. Either shut up and save your ar$e off to live where you want, or live where you can afford and have a good quality of life.

Oh, and before you start with the BS about getting stabbed walking down the streets of Western Sydney, well that is just an uninformed elitist attitude. You have many hard working, good people living in these areas. Sure there might be a bit of stigma attached to a few of the areas, but, you know what? There are still Housing Commission and all their "clients" in Sydney too.

So, stop whining. If all you can afford is a place that you don't want to live in, well do it anyway, grow some equity and then upgrade. Heck, that is what a lot of us "greedy" older folk had to do. Oh, and while your at it, don't spend all your money filling your house on consumer crap and you will be doing that upgrade sooner than you think.
 
So who is to blame for housing affrodability?

PB points out how his parents did it tough in Liverpool in the 60's. I had an aunt who lived in Yagoona, still had a dunny man come and collect the can, my wife lived in Wombara had a septic system till the 80's. What is the point?

Yes, people can move out from the city, they can take a 1 Hr commute to work, they can buy an old house to get in on the ground floor, they can do all these things and you know what... some people actually do. And some of them are Gen Y's.

Not every Gen Y feels entitled, no more than every Baby Boomer fought in Vietnam. Let's get a grip people.

Housing affordability by all the charts is high. This is an average. We had a loan at 17.5% at one stage. Now by the chart that was still affordable. But for a young couple with two young children, and who had both become unemployed I can tell you it bloody well was not.

Everyone is an individual and we all have different circumstances, regardless of age.

My dad built our house out of fibro. The material was cheap, and he was legally allowed to put up a room, move in and continue building. Is this an option today? I don't think so. McMansions appear to be the norm, there are whole communities which dictate the level of finish required within the development. Is this the fault of Gen Y's?

Every generation will face problems common to that generation, however not every person within that generation will be affected or react in the same way. Certainly some Gen Y's believe they are entitled to it all, just as some Baby Boomers & Gen X's believe they are entitled to belittle all Gen Y's as whiners.

Housing affordability is high.

The idea of moving outside of the more desirable suburbs in order to get your foot in the door in property is valid.

An individuals position that they just can't live "there" is also valid. It is their choice where thay want to live.

The agument that housing affordability means I can never own property. Is bunk as outlined by the proposal above.

And the argument that it is all the fault of BB's & Gen X's is need I say, a load of bollocks. Look inside before looking outside for the answer.

Regards

Andrew
 
Apropos of nothing - Horses for courses.

BB's when they bought their first house, which was much more "affordable", got it without, curtains, driveways, carpet, air conditioning, landscaping, theatre/family/rumpus rooms which have become the norm, and if you could buy a reasonable house you got all of 10-12 squares.

Slim:)
 
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