Interest Rates

[Sunfish]

In a drafted army people would pay a lot more attention to what our military does because one day they just may be personally involved.

That's about right Punchy.

Americans are a class riddled society and they can go to war knowing that "nice, wealthy white boys" don't have to get in harm's way. In a volunteer army it is only the disadvantaged and "trailer trash" (Yanks have dozens of such terms) who must join the military to escape poverty or boredom (OK that's very simplistic). Even with a draft, the Draft Board let the College Boys defer indefinately.

Nor am I so magnanimus about them all being nice folks. Their history is steeped in violence. It is still their culture. Individually and as a nation they reach for their gun the moment they are unhappy.

Did anyone examine Mexico's experience with their FTO with America? I don't know enough to comment but one author I read doubted it was in their interest. I doubt our's will help us much either but if you have faith in Howard you would believe him.

Thommo

 

[aussierogue]

The USA

Its funny - in my travels, having met an incredibly diverse array of people the one thing that always hits home is how SIMILAR we all are rather than HOW different we are. Americans are just like us....

If we were AMERICANS, the likelhood is that we too would have an unbalanced view of our success, because thats what constant success does to you. We are no different. The group dynamic does strange things to normal people. How else do you expalin millions of seamingly rational middle class germans supporting the NAZI party last century.

Ask yourself - would you have been a Nazi????? If you are a normal, middle class Australian, who went to school, owns a car, has a mortgage, pays its taxes, votes conservative or close enough - then the chances are that you would have been!!!!!!!!

The point being - whats going on with the USA is entirely normal and to be truthful somewhat fatalistic. They are victims of their own success. No one is in charge and it cant be stopped.....nothing is new under the sun - Like most things the rise and fall of empires are natural....

Maybe the USA can stop the rot by adopting some of BHUTANS national policies

like GNH - Gross National Hapiness.

 

[Peter 14.7]

At the risk of getting my own neck chopped off here I thought I maght add my 2c worth.

I believe that no matter what the US does, it will never be right!

As the leading superpower of the world most everybody expects them to fight for democracy, right the wrongs of the world ect ect ect.

On the other hand when they do take the lead and do just that they are accused of being bullies, tyrants and dictarorial.

They are also expected to put themselves last, be fair in the way they fight and somehow achieve perfection in their political agenda.

Why should the USA not look after their own political agenda? Does anyone berate Australia for looking after it's own political interests?

I believe that the US sees Iraq (and many other countries) as a haven for terrorists that will not hesitate to cause mass destruction if it finds the ability.

What is the point in having the strengh if you never use it? I aggree that the US does pick its fights where it will most benifet itself. Why not? Are we as individuals any better? If your house and the neighbours house was on fire and both famillies were inside, which house would you choose to put out first?
YOUR OWN. Then you would try to help the neighbour out.

People expect the USA to be pure and right. Why? I think that the US is relativly reserved and responsible as the superpower in todays world. do you see the rest of the world doing anything? What does Eurpope, besides England do? Nothing.

IMHO I would rather take leadership under the US banner than some of the alternatives like China, Russia, North Korea or any of the Arab nations. At least their way of life, religeous convictions, moral codes ect are similar to ours.

As for John Howard. I like him. He is a good leader, that has the balls to make changes that may not make him popular eg the GST but do better the country. He is in tune with the people and has no doubt made this country strong. John Howard sees the big picture, and is privy to things we do not know about.

Don't take my word for it. Take the word of the majority of the country!

My position exactly.

There is always a risk to ourselves. Sometimes it is called war, sometimes a conflict like Vietnam and sometimes an intervention like East Timor.

But in the end it involves one country/group being made to agree with another country/group by force of arms or risk thereof.

Those who bag the US because of Iraq should ask how some Indonesians feel about our action in East Timor. To them we did the same thing. Stuck our military might into their internal issue.

And on the matter of East Timor if anyone out there thinks the Militia and TNI walked away from looting, raping and murder because we had a UN flag is frankly, having themselves on.

If was the M16's, armoured vehicles, assult helicopters and state of the art communication they respected, not a blue flag.

As I said before, conflict is way is was and remains and will be for the forseeable future. New Zealand, with absolute respect, can afford to have a very different position to Aust because of their geographical isolation.

Unless Tonga declares war, they only has radioactive mutant penguins to worry about.

And before you go and say I am bagging our friends in NZ I am not. If Australia was in the same situation we would do the same. Who would not.

In the spirit of free debate, Peter 147

 

[Peter 14.7]

What is the point in having the strengh if you never use it?
So if you met John Hopoate in the street you'd accept it he head butted you and stuck his finger up your bum?

I've had enough. The rest of the post was rubbish too.

Thommo

Come On Thommo.

That comparision is totally out of context and you know it.

We are debating world economics and the use of force to achieve favourable economic outcomes for your own self interest.

You can do better and have, many times before.

Regards, Peter 147

 

[Sunfish]

Come On Thommo.

That comparision is totally out of context and you know it.

You can do better and have, many times before.

Regards, Peter 147

Peter, my brain is wired for logic and I have an old fashioned sense of justice. To me it was a fair analogy but I can understand if you felt otherwise.

Thommo

 

[WyldFire]

This has been a very interesting read. I have to agree with those of you who like John Howard. Because I do to. The other day down at the milk bar the subject of John Howard came up and this bearded unemployed man said some pretty nasty things about John Howard. When I asked him why he felt that way, thinking I might learn something about Howard, he could not respond. Instead the young man sitting next to him joined in and started slanging off at Howard, but he too could not explain why he hated him so much. Then a female friend standing next to me started to feel uncomfortable so she interjected and suggested to them that possibly it was the introduction of the gst. So the bearded unemployed man goes yeah gst, slang, slang, slang gst, slang, slang, slang. I told them that I thought John Howard was okay. Pause, strained atmosphere, subject change. I walked away feeling like I had a very intellectually stimulating conversation. And as I walked home I realised that this man was not an investor, he wasn't planning to create jobs for people, he wasn't even looking for a job himself he was quite happy to live on govt. money do up his garden at his leisure and complain about the current govt. without ever lifting a finger to help the country and make it better for everyone else. Not only that he didn't even know why he hated John Howard it was just the popular thing to do. There is a silent majority out there and they let us rant and rave but at the end of the day they have the last say. And they like me love John Howard.

 

[Ronulas]

Well actually I find making comments on language a fair bit racist....After all why doesn't Australia have an Aboriginal language as it's national language....and the US chose English over German by one vote (after the war of independence they were down on all things English).

Being told how many children I can have - well given the carrying capacity of our world and the number of people, I don't see that as a bad thing either.


I'm a little disappointed Ronulas, up until these bits I agreed with much of what you were saying.

The US does act in what it believes is it's best interests - so do the European states, so does Russia, China, Australia, etc.

Self-interest is a key part of sovereignty.

I also believe that the US is held up to double standards by much of the rest of the world - and much of the US population as well.

However, I also thing that's the burden a superpower must bear. England was in a similar boat in the 19th Century, as was Rome way back when.

As to US incompetence - well really...is the US any more incompetent than any other large state? I don't think so....Australians just like pointing it out because it makes us feel superior.

Tall poppy syndrome anyone?

For the US to take any action requires courage, because whatever it does it will alienate or upset a good proportion of the world. Australia is lucky because we are, in the immortal words of Douglas Adams, regarded as 'Mostly harmless'.

Asides from being able to overbear a couple of small south Pacific Island nations, no-one really takes us seriously enough to worry about most of what we decide.

That makes it a whole lot easier for us to make decisions without worrying about the ramifications.

And there's too much 'US this, US that' that goes on. Most people in the US are decent human beings who care about their families - just like in China, Russia, North Korea and Iceland. People are people - don't judge them all by the decisions their leaders make.

Make individual US citizens afraid to travel, humiliate them when they visit other countries and otherwise ostracise them due to the decisions of their leaders & in short order we'll see a slide towards a much more uncaring USA. This is bad for everyone.

Don't exclude people who should be in the dialogue. Include them and befriend them. Make them understand the personal costs of the decisions of their leaders. That's how you encourage positive political reform.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

Sorry you find the comments about the Chinese language racist Acey, as they were certianly not ment to be. I was simply refering to the previous comment about seeing more of the Chinese in world politics. I took this as meaning the Chinese form of Government would be forced upon us if the US was not the leading superpower. I was maintaining that I would not like to not have the choice about speaking Chinese. This is no aspersion to the race of Chinese or anyone of Chinese decent.

 

[Ronulas]

Ronulas,

Thankfully that question is moot, as the US is in its death throws as we speak. We are watching the ultimate demise of the ugly behemoth. That's the one small solace I take at times like this when the strong and beligerent feel they can rule the world through might and not through consenus achieved via multilateral dialogue.

Oh, and BTW, little Johnnie never had an original thought in his life. He's just a mouth piece for the US in the Asia/Pac region. I'll concede the GST (the one time I actually voted liberal), but beyond that the other decisions were hardly makers or breakers. Its easy to talk up the evil immigrants to rally the masses around nationalism and the flag. Unfortunately, most of the population still thinks that communism is evil and that China is a bad thing. I have worked extensively in the Asia/Pacific region, including China, and can say with honesty that I would prefer a world dominated by eastern culture over one dominated by US pop culture. Asia is a lot more family oriented with considerable respect for their elders. They also tend to see the big picture and think in the long term, which is why the PRC originally adopted their socially responsible one child policy. The US on the other hand have declared multilateralism as dead and have argued that they will go it alone to create the world in their image. Dubya has stated that he considers this to be a "war to the end between two opposing world views" and that if the USA can't win then he'll make sure the other side doesn't! When asked how he thought history would judge him, in typical short-sighted myopia he responded "Who cares, I'll be dead by then!".

FWIW, I can't wait to see the US implode and be replaced by any other power that at least sees the world as populated by multiple nations and cultures, and one that is willing to engage them all multilaterally and be tolerant of differences.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I respect yours, its just that mine happen to be polarly opposite to those espoused by yourself in this instance.

Cheers,
Michael.

PS. I'm ex defence forces too. Just couldn't stand hanging around all the sword rattling, far right neo-conservatives any more so bailed out when they threated to promote me to Major.

Michael,

That's the one small solace I take at times like this when the strong and beligerent feel they can rule the world through might and not through consenus achieved via multilateral dialogue.

And what other strong and beligerent country do you feel could do a better job? The very nature of a large country is that at some stage in its evolution it was strong and beligerent. I'm sure the Aboriginals felt we were pretty strong and beligerent when we showed up and invaded their land.

Unfortunately, most of the population still thinks that communism is evil and that China is a bad thing. I have worked extensively in the Asia/Pacific region, including China, and can say with honesty that I would prefer a world dominated by eastern culture over one dominated by US pop culture. Asia is a lot more family oriented with considerable respect for their elders. They also tend to see the big picture and think in the long term, which is why the PRC originally adopted their socially responsible one child policy.

I feel this is a fairly naive comment Michael. Prefer a world dominated by eastern culture. There are many things which I could mention about Eastern culture which would shed a different light but I don't believe this is the place and I would not like to offend anyone, or be called a racist.

The Chinese culture is not what we are talking about. We are talking about their form of government. Communism is not evil per se nor is China, however the government does not have a love of freedom of speech nor of any other culture either. As long as you tow the party line and work for the common good of all (except the commoner) your fine. Forget the luxury we all enjoy of investing. Working hard to get ahead. You trash the very forms of Government that allow you free speech on this forum and the freedom to get ahead in life by investing.

 

[Ronulas]

I believe that no matter what the US does, it will never be right!
Fair enough.

As the leading superpower of the world most everybody expects them to fight for democracy, right the wrongs of the world ect ect ect.
I don't. They are meddelsome fools and make more problems than they solve.

Why should the USA not look after their own political agenda? Does anyone berate Australia for looking after it's own political interests?
Most nations don't invade others, justified by self interest.

I believe that the US sees Iraq (and many other countries) as a haven for terrorists that will not hesitate to cause mass destruction if it finds the ability.
And the US is safer now? Note: The US was a rogue state supporting terrorism for decades. Without their active assistance the IRA would have withered and died.

What is the point in having the strengh if you never use it?
So if you met John Hopoate in the street you'd accept it he head butted you and stuck his finger up your bum?

I've had enough. The rest of the post was rubbish too.

Thommo

I don't. They are meddelsome fools and make more problems than they solve.

I'm sure your right Thommo, but I am sure glad they decided to meddle when the Japanese were about to invade Australia via Singapore and stopped a war not started by us but by an eastern culture!! (No offence to any current eastern cultures) I'm talking about history here.

Most nations don't invade others, justified by self interest.

Of course we are so much better, I mean Indonesia asked us to come and fix things up for them in Timor, didn't they? And of course we had no self interest. Oh and the Indigineous peoples of this land asked us to invade them aswell. England was once the USA of the world. It invaded many countries in its day. Do you want too hand back your pieces of Australia to its rightfull owners?

And the US is safer now? Note: The US was a rogue state supporting terrorism for decades. Without their active assistance the IRA would have withered and died

Totally agree with you. America has done some things of which it should not be proud.

So if you met John Hopoate in the street you'd accept it he head butted you and stuck his finger up your bum?

Thats why we have such a great thing called law and order which is based on the priciples of Democracy. Where the strong will protect the weak. Sometimes the strong have to protect themselves first befor they can protect anyone else.

I've had enough. The rest of the post was rubbish too.

Sorry you feel that way Thomo. Obviously some of us are not up to your intelectual standard. But remebmer, one mans Trash is another mans treasure.

Enjoy the freedom to speak freely and invest. Someone somewhere is paying the price for you to do it.

 

[Ronulas]

In a drafted army people would pay a lot more attention to what our military does because one day they just may be personally involved.

We aren't on the US governments s**t list and subsequently haven't felt their wrath. Makes it easier to be objective. Doesn't mean that they are right.

I like that posters are able to seperate the state from the people. IMO the average person just wants to get on with their life. Maslow's hierarchy of needs and all that ..... I can't imagine that the average person in Iowa is thinking "geeze I wish we could scr3w over some people who live in abject poverty so my coffee is 10cents cheaper" nor do I think the average Afghan sat around the dinner table saying "gee whizz. What can I do tommorow to stick it to those infidels in New York?"

As for the government telling you how many kids you can have. At least the Chinese were honest about it. For what it is worth you can have as many kids as you like in China. The thing is that after one child it becomes financial suicide to have another...... sort of like here? The average number of births per Australian woman is now 1.76. That is, without immigration our population would be declining.

In a drafted army people would pay a lot more attention to what our military does because one day they just may be personally involved.

Everybody pays attention to what the military does! The media ensures that. Why do we only pay attention when we are personally involved? If your neighbours are being massacred do you stand by and let it happen?

We aren't on the US governments s**t list and subsequently haven't felt their wrath. Makes it easier to be objective. Doesn't mean that they are right.

We arn't on the US's **** list because we don't harbour terrorists or blow up their buildings.

As for the government telling you how many kids you can have. At least the Chinese were honest about it. For what it is worth you can have as many kids as you like in China. The thing is that after one child it becomes financial suicide to have another...... sort of like here?

At least their honest about it!!! That makes it right! The Chinese government tells you that you can have as many kids as you want but we will financially destroy you if you do!! Sounds fair to me

 

[Sunfish]

Enjoy the freedom to speak freely and invest. Someone somewhere is paying the price for you to do it.

Consider yourself saluted!!!!

 

[Ronulas]

Consider yourself saluted!!!!

Are you being sarcastic????

 

[Sunfish]

Are you being sarcastic????

Yes

 

[Aceyducey]

The Chinese culture is not what we are talking about. We are talking about their form of government. Communism is not evil per se nor is China, however the government does not have a love of freedom of speech nor of any other culture either. As long as you tow the party line and work for the common good of all (except the commoner) your fine. Forget the luxury we all enjoy of investing. Working hard to get ahead. You trash the very forms of Government that allow you free speech on this forum and the freedom to get ahead in life by investing.

Something always to think about.....if the US didn't exist in it's current form, how many nations in the world would have free speech?

Certainly the US has (and does) support repressive regimes...however I've not seen much conversation about what the alternative to those regimes might be...more repressive regimes?

The beauty of history is that it allows us to overlook what we did in the past, while castigating others for doing the same thing today

BTW: This is a frequent complaint by 3rd world countries when western countries tell them to stop slash & burn agriculture or use less environmentally polluting fuel andinstead use higher cost & expertise requiring techniques.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[quintets]

Michael,

I feel this is a fairly naive comment Michael. Prefer a world dominated by eastern culture. There are many things which I could mention about Eastern culture which would shed a different light but I don't believe this is the place and I would not like to offend anyone, or be called a racist.

Well, I'm Chinese by birth so I'll say it.

There are elements of Chinese culture which are going to make it very difficult to adopt a true democratic model. The Confucian ideal of filial piety and respect for elders extends very strongly into the analogy of government as "big brother/dad who knows best". In short, dictatorships tend to work well in Asian countries. If you get lucky and have a geographically limited space, then benevolent dictatorships pop up. That's how Singapore became the powerhouse it was. A small population over a limited area is fairly easy to control. Combine a strong emphasis on education, the rise of the information society and presto...instant economic powerhouse.

My parents fled the communists in 1949 and lost alot of PROPERTY along the way. In this forum, you would never find a supporter of communism who had any decent holdings.

I'm supportive of the students rebellion in Tienannmen Square in the 80's, but it will take many generations for China to change to a true democracy. It would need to become "westernized"...if it ever did.

I like freedom. You tradeoff for less security, but if we weren't all trying to improve at least one aspect of our security (financial). But it's worth it, and definitely not boring!

my two yuan,

Jireh

 

[Peter 14.7]

Well, I'm Chinese by birth so I'll say it.

my two yuan,

Jireh

Thankyou Jireh for a insightful post from a very personal viewpoint. Comments like these make SS the great place it is.

Hope to see you at SIG in April for Steve Navra.

Regards, Peter 147

 

[MichaelW]

I'm supportive of the students rebellion in Tienannmen Square in the 80's, but it will take many generations for China to change to a true democracy. It would need to become "westernized"...if it ever did.

Jireh,

Great post!

I agree completely that China and some of the other asian states will need to become more "westernized" if they are to become economically competitive in the global economy. I agree that China has some issues in fundamental human rights abuse and other areas that they are yet to overcome. My point was that they also have some very positive aspects which the USA demonstrably lacks such as peity and respect. I'm an altruist, and I guess I'm hoping that China continues on its current path towards democratization, but doesn't go so far that they become just another beligerent imperialist like the USA.

Unfortunately, if history is anything to go by (as pointed out by Acey), that's unlikely to happen. It seems that power truly does corrupt and absolute power absolutely.

I guess I should be thankful that the US hasn't abused its position as unchallenged global powerhouse any more than they have done. Be thankful for small mercies I guess. Anyway, interesting debate (even if completely off topic...)

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[quintets]

Jireh,

I agree completely that China and some of the other asian states will need to become more "westernized" if they are to become economically competitive in the global economy.

Michael, Peter,

Competitive is a relative term. When it comes to clothing, software and manufacturing, they are already competitive in the global economy. I'm not entirely convinced you have to be "westernized" to be competitive. Political ideology is a reflection of how popular philosophy manifests itself as a organising force. Competitiveness is a reflection of survival regarding commerce. The Chinese are pretty good at surviving at business.

I read recently they've installed traffic lights in factories to tell workers when to stop working. They do this everytime the news hits that some country they export to is getting annoyed about the amount being sold and starts threatening trade sanctions. That's not politics. That's just commercial survival instincts and I think that's distinct from political spectrum and even cultural differences (west vs. east).



Another two pegged currency units,

Jireh

 

[MichaelW]

Another two pegged currency units

Jireh,

Any insight on when the RMB will be unpegged from the greenback? My Commercial Manager tells me its definately on the cards...

Now that might send the greenback into a tail spin.

Cheers,
Michael.

PS. Another great post BTW...

 

[Sunfish]

Jireh,

Any insight on when the RMB will be unpegged from the greenback? My Commercial Manager tells me its definately on the cards...

Now that might send the greenback into a tail spin.

Cheers,
Michael.

PS. Another great post BTW...

Like a lot of things we "know" will happen, nobody has any idea when.

My Q: "Yuan" and "Renmimbi", are the terms interchangable?

Thommo