Is it all for real?

This has me worried Matt:

In another thread you wrote:

"Hi All
I'm putting feelers out for an experienced property development mentor. I'm serious about making PD my primary business, and have already breached into the field using options. I am now at the point I need some further guidance, advice etc, and would like to find someone to act as a sounding board or guide to enable me to progress beyond where I am now."

This will not only be jumping in the deep end, this will be jumping off Wallaman Falls (largest single drop waterfall in Aus). Sounds like the "get-rich-quick" cycle is beginning again...

Also, you mentioned having a go yourself for 18 months. Dude, after 18 months of buying my first IP, the CG had risen $20K. Slow down, relax, take it easy. :):):) Go spend some time with your daughter, because if you're serious about developments, you will probably have none (although I'm not an expert in this field). How is your SANF???

Still the question remains, have you got any IPs???
 
I'd say 99% of people at seminars get the warm glow for a few days after the seminar and then....nothing....they realise they have to do something...take risks....spend money....do some work...the seminar presenter isn't going to do it for them.

Most seminar attendees are sucked in by the slick marketing, pay the money and do squat.

I've seen it so many times its not funny. Take the advice of the previous posts, keep your money in your pocket and take your time. Investing in property would have to be the slowest way to wealth available. Don't stress and don't go to seminars.

And oh yeah...by the way.....most mentors are useless. Check their history and make sure they have done what you want to. Thats if you have to use one.

Still, you don't have a mentors (or seminar presenter) experience, money, risk tolerance, connections, personality etc etc. You are a different person to them, therefore, you might not succeed and probably wont.

Thats the problem with mentoring and seminars etc. You can get the information but every person is different, so it in no way means you will succeed.

You cant succeed with only the information. You need brains, balls, money, skill, connections, risk tolerance, perserverence, patience, tenacity on and on..and maybe you dont have these. If you don't you wont succeed. Or you might but very, very slowly.

The majority of people think all they need is the information....WRONG!....in fact the information itself is the easy part. The hard part and the bit that stops most people is in the list above. Thats the hard part to get (and hard to do) and thats why very few people succeed and thats also why most people try to take shortcuts.

Its the same reason most people fail at business. Theres an old saying "businesses don't fail, people do" and its the same reason people go to seminars etc. Its about the person, not the thing. Regardless of the endeavor. As Sir Edmund Hillary said "i wasn't challenging the mountain, i was challenging myself" and in that saying you'll find the only secret you need, and its FREE.

Very people have become successful taking shortcuts. And seminar marketing is slick enough to capture the people who think they can. Promising all kinds of shortcuts, secrets, quick and easy....blah blah....ways to wealth.

Am i raving on or what!!! But its all true.


peastman said:
So, are all these seminars, workshops, mentoring programs, etc. of any real value or do they just confuse people who in the end just loose heart and do nothing?
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Dude!

Slow down!
I think it is a falacy to believe you can fast track anything in the property game, so unless you are prepared to act, then work and wait, you will still be in the same boat in 10 years time.
Take a good look at what you are doing. If you have a 9 to 5 job, spend all your spare time and money going to seminars, and playing options and shares on the computer, and then have to find time to spend with your beautiful child, there aint a lotta time left to do any real hands on work which is needed for the property game.
Seminars are great to get you motivated. Books are great if you need help to figure things out.But a lot of us don't need that motivation, and a lot of us learn how to figure things out by ourselves. Talking to like minded people for free,on forums like this, is the best type of motivation, because you are assured of honest help, as most people have nothing to gain from giving you their opinions and/ or advise.
Unless you have the brains to become a full time share trader, shares, as far as I am concerned should come in at a close second, after you have established your ip portfolio.
Save that money for a deposit, any deposit! If you cant scrape it together, ask your family if they can help, as long as you pay it back.Is there a family member who has unused equity in their property? As long as they are not intending to invest, it is not a huge deal to allow you to use their equity in the loan.We have done this for both our kids.
Buy you first ip close to home, so that you know the area, and you know exactly what to expect.Make it your PPR, and get your butt out and work, work, work, to increase the value.Great way to spend time with your daughter, because you will be at home! Rent out a room to make sure you can afford thr interest repayments. Take out interest only loans.
Get it revalued and use the equity for the next one. Buy your second ip close to home, so you can put in the time to maintain it, improve it, repair it to increase its value.
Be prepared to sell you PPR and give yourself a time frame and put a reward at the end of the time.You will be amazed at how quickly the time will go by.
You just need to get of the starting block, but I have a hunch that you lack the confidence to do it.
It's great to think big, and a negative, self doubting attitude definitely won't get you where you want to go.But just don't think too big too soon! Developments may be a little too far out of reach at the mo.Save it for later.

Get positive! Get happy! Think about all the knowledge you have gained from your previous learning , and tell yourself "now is the time to get serious".
Don't get down on yourself for having wasted time and money. Knowledge is never wasted. It will be sitting in the dark matter waiting to come out one day when it is appropriate.

Most importantly, realize that nothing is going to fast track your wealth more than putting in your own hard sweat and labour.Unless you decide to go and rob a bank.The success stories you read in the books, or see on the TV are only snippets of the peoples lives. The hard work and stress is never documented, and if it is, noone can realy get a grip of what it felt like anyway.Unless you have been there.
You may have to alter your lifestyle a bit, you may have to do some sucking up to get a start.Who cares.Do it.
Get yourself there, and you will be on your way.
Working hard equals making money equals getting what you want.

cheers.
 
evand said:
Fantastic post Bianca! Kudos to you.
Click to expand...
Ditto!

Any post that starts with "Dude! Slow down!" gets my vote... ;) Very Bob Marley. :D

And Kudos to you too Evan, great post.

The advice here is really good. I might summarise it as follows:

1. Don't bight off more than you can chew (developing is too much, too quick)
2. Start small (and start! Buy something you can afford with a decent yield)
3. Wait
4. Wait some more
5. When its cash flow neutral or better, repeat.

OK, that's slightly tweaked to reflect a more conservative approach, but the advice is sound. Property investing is all about acting early, investing within your means, mitigating against risk, and waiting then repeating. Its not rocket surgery, which is why I've never really had any time for the sprukers. If you want mindset, read Kiyosaki. If you want methods, read Somers or Spann. If you want specific situational advice when acting, post on Somersoft.

QED :D

Michael
 
Matt

Its not 100% clear to me, and possibly others exactly what the problem is. Nobody seems to know if you're not taking the right action, or whether you're doing heaps of things, but the results are not forthcoming.

One problem is in your head (action) and the other is education (bad results).

I'd like to see one of the bigger investors on here PM you with their phone number so you can talk to them for half an hour. I'm sure that will go a long way to sorting it out. Maybe one of the brokers...might even be something in it for them longer term, although that's not the point right now.
 
Hey..i did!! You want another one?:D

I would like to add that as great as your post is, its your style of investing. Its a great one and an excellent way to start but its not for everyone. Myself? I couldn't be bothered working on houses so i buy when and where i don't need to.

bianca said:
well u could have hit the ruddy kudos buttons...............:p
Click to expand...
 
As others have said, have you actually done *anything* other than go to seminars and trade property options?

You don't have to go to seminars at all, we bought an IP the other week on a whim for no particular reason at all other than it probably fits in with Grand Plan C and was really cheap, and you could have bought a house already with what you've spend on seminars.
 
How do average wage earners do it??

I'll take your word for it evand.:)
So if you don't do any work on your properties, you either buy them new or in pretty good nick right? Because otherwise how do you meet the shortfalls and the call out fees from all the other fix up people?

I have no knowledge of your situation but I presume you own a few Ip's, by the sound of your confident text. Go back in time and tell us how you started?

And I would realy like to know how avarage wage earners meet the shortfalls?

From experience, and also by watching my kids, I think the first one is definitely the hardest. I know, without our help, the kids wouldn't have been where they are now. My son has bounced back from losing everything 2 and a half years ago, and I mean everything, to now having his own PPR, a mansion on a hill, a set of 6 units and a spare block of land. He is taking of overseas for 2 months next week. But there is no way he could have done that without our equity help.

My daughter is 23 and has also just built her first home with an immediate equity of $200k( long story) but she also could not have done done it without a start. She is finding it hard to maintain the payments some $2600 per month, on a salary of $52K, and has two people living with her who pay rent.Once she is over this hump, her wages go up and the room mates have to pay more rent, she will be fine, but for the moment it is tough. On the other hand, she is already worth $200K. She has had to stop going to hairdressers 2 times a week, and drinking $200 on a weekend, and buying $100 dresses, but she knows why.

There must be many people out there who are on small wages, but have also ploughed through to get a start. Forget about big words and investing jargon, just tell us how you managed. It may give Matt a desperately needed insight.
 
bianca said:
There must be many people out there who are on small wages, but have also ploughed through to get a start. Forget about big words and investing jargon, just tell us how you managed. It may give Matt a desperately needed insight.
Click to expand...


Without sharing too much I've invested on a 50-60k wage and have a portfolio > M

It wasn't long before I hit my income ceiling so looked to alternative strategys to keep on increasing the portfolio even though I was assett / equity rich, income poor
 
bianca,

I bought my first IP in the inner west of Sydney in 1988 in my mid 20s and sort of bumbled around for a few years. I sold it after after 4 years and bought a PPOR on a BIG block of land in the western suburbs of Sydney. It was a bit of a sacrifice as far as lifestyle but had one big advantage.

I sub divided and developed the block with a few detached houses including my PPOR.

I did a couple of other sub divide/dual occs but i thought the developing stress wasnt worth the effort so stopped that.

All this time i was building my electrical business which allowed me the income to do pretty much whatever i wanted so i spent a lot of it on drinking, doodads, travel, good times etc.

In the late 90s - 2000 i got serious with business and investing and had the income by now to get serious. I bought brick veneer, reasonably new houses with good yields in outer Brisbane, regional NSW and Western Sydney.

I also bought land with cash in regional NSW with the plan to develop it but ended up selling it for a decent profit as i couldn't be bothered with the developing thing again.

Anyway, my business income allowed me to negative gear but i never wanted to. I wanted the houses to just sit there without me worrying about them or having to put money in. My timing was good in that sense.

As far as property goes, i bought single story, brick veneer, roughly 10 years old, low maintenence houses. Rental specials you could probably call them.

I never want to maintain, reno, develop, build...whatever again...i was in the building industry for ages and i've had enough of that stuff.

Anyway, to tell you what i think someone starting out should do. They should start a business and/or increase their income substantially another way to a point where they can invest more and really get ahead quicker.


If you start investing on a low wage, you have to expect it to take ages to get anywhere.
(do they tell people that in the seminars) so the answer is increase your income and increase your investing.

It gets to a point where if you are just fiddling around the edges and painting letter boxes in fixer uppers etc and takes a LOOOONG time to realise wealth with property. So, find some wealth another way and transfer that into property when the timing is right.

I think timing is so important in buying property. If the timing isn't right, research and educate oneself till the right time comes along. And when it is right, jump in the deep end with your big income.:D

In my opinion, negative gearing just slows down your investing journey, unless you're on a huge income. That might sound counter intuitive but putting money into houses every week/month just limits the amount of property you can buy.

Wait till the landscape is better and go for it.

By the way, i've sold a few over the years and never regretted it.
 
Matt, a few things from me in regards to success:

(1) Decouple success in life from your bank account. Raising a happy, confident child is the most successful "project" you can undertake and you only get one chance to see your kids grow up so make that the 1st priority because they're gone before you know it.

(2) Avoid at all costs the tabloids and Current Affairs shows. A lot of people watch these and feel deflated because they always run stories of seemingly successful people who made it easy and fast and how you too can get on the gravy train. Of course life doesn't work that way and appearances are definitely deceiving in a lot of these stories.

(3) Avoid comparisons to friends, neighbors workmates and siblings. The most successful people I know live the simplest life and don't care what others think. Conversely, I work for a very wealthy individual who would be the unhappiest person on the planet from trying to compete against all comers and not stopping to smell the roses.

(4) There is no secret to success that requires you to pay for in a financial sense. Its all out there for free on the web if you look hard enough (and you clearly are cause you've found this site). Truly successful people generally are good enough to assist without requiring payment because they realise that you get back from that far more than you give. Its then incumbent upon you to return the favour when you make it.

(5) Have fun. Life is short. The statistical odds that you're alive based on your ancestors avoiding premature death or meeting up and procreating etc dwarf any tatts win, so don't waste this incredible gift by wishing for another life when you've had more than enough luck just to be here in the first place.

(6) Your living in Queensland. Enough said!

Good luck for the future.
 
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evand said:
Anyway, to tell you what i think someone starting out should do. They should start a business and/or increase their income substantially another way to a point where they can invest more and really get ahead quicker.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you've still done the hard yakka tho evan. No one I know runs a business without putting in some mammoth hours at least on the outset...
Being in the trade would be a turn off for doing renos, no doubt..

Good advice tho...especially if you're on a single income with kid/s.

We've started out small and on average incomes and it's hard and the going is slow, but as they say "mighty oaks from tiny acorns grow"

We've done some subdivisions to kick things along...nothing high risk or high stress, just enough to keep things moving.

R:)
 
Anyway, to tell you what i think someone starting out should do. They should start a business and/or increase their income substantially another way to a point where they can invest more and really get ahead quicker.


Looks like the initial start for both of us did come from the starting the business.Two totally different strategies based on one fundamental similarity.

Good stuff
 
Dear All, thankyou all for your time and the generous responses you have posted thus far. As someone pointed out i've given little to no detail other than venting frustration and disappointment. In that regard I guess misery loves company and I should have provided more info.
the purpose of my post was I guess as much to see if i could find some honest, down to earth and 'real' people rather than these NLP black belt sell you anything types..
Firstly all of you make good points about forgetting seminars and getting out there and doing my own research. I guess in a manner, this is my research, or at least the start of it. I have definitely reached that point, and as someone rightly pointed out, turning a frown upside down i can use the info i did learn in these seminars and put it to use in teh grand scheme of things.

Secondly, I have had IPs in the past, one 'wrap' and one buy and hold, both of which I lost thanks to some unfortunate circumstances arising out of a combination of bull put spread trading and a bad choice of employer. I still however have a small unit in Paddington in Brisbane that I share ownership with the bank with..

I am employed full time on a decent salary (thanks to some negotiating in recent times) so probably have reasonable borrowing power for IPs again. I am not adverse to regional investment and have had property in Central Qld previously.

All in all things are NOT bad, but I am despondent about the whole seminar/wealth creation/NLP ninja type circuit in which i've been caught up over the last few years. No longer. I'll have to decide what to do next at this point, but my interest in IP and property developing remains strong and i fully intend to progress both areas and seek a sound mentor/guide if possible as well.

Thanks all again for your kind words and frank input.
Matt.
 
Hi Matt

What is "bull put spread trading?" Property investing is really pretty simple. There are no secrets.

I have a friend in QLD that knows 147 ways to make money with property investing because he has been to lots of seminars and bought expensive courses etc.

A few of years ago he lost a couple hundred thousand and nearly lost his PPOR trying to be tricky with property, valuations and loans. Problem was his market timing was way off and he went in heavy as the market tanked.

Lucky his business had the funds (just) to pull him out of the doodoo but now that is struggling.
By the way: I do some business consulting now and then and there is a saying that consultants know 157 sexual positions but cant get laid on Friday night. (i like that:) The reason i bring this up is because i think it applies to seminar presenters, property spruikers and NLP types as well. Dont believe the hype.

Keep it simple mate and good luck.
 
npb555 said:
Matt, a few things from me in regards to success:

(1) Decouple success in life from your bank account. Raising a happy, confident child is the most successful "project" you can undertake and you only get one chance to see your kids grow up so make that the 1st priority because they're gone before you know it.

(2) Avoid at all costs the tabloids and Current Affairs shows. A lot of people watch these and feel deflated because they always run stories of seemingly successful people who made it easy and fast and how you too can get on the gravy train. Of course life doesn't work that way and appearances are definitely deceiving in a lot of these stories.

(3) Avoid comparisons to friends, neighbors workmates and siblings. The most successful people I know live the simplest life and don't care what others think. Conversely, I work for a very wealthy individual who would be the unhappiest person on the planet from trying to compete against all comers and not stopping to smell the roses.

(4) There is no secret to success that requires you to pay for in a financial sense. Its all out there for free on the web if you look hard enough (and you clearly are cause you've found this site). Truly successful people generally are good enough to assist without requiring payment because they realise that you get back from that far more than you give. Its then incumbent upon you to return the favour when you make it.

(5) Have fun. Life is short. The statistical odds that you're alive based on your ancestors avoiding premature death or meeting up and procreating etc dwarf any tatts win, so don't waste this incredible gift by wishing for another life when you've had more than enough luck just to be here in the first place.

(6) Your living in Queensland. Enough said!

Good luck for the future.
Click to expand...

THAT is one of the best posts I've ever read. Deserves to be printed out and stuck on the fridge.
 
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