I've decided not to get married or have children .. Is that ok?
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I was happily single for a number of years. When I was 32 I met a lady I really clicked with (bloody Contiki Tours!). We've now been married for 25 years.
The only thing I wanted was not to have just one child. 0 or 2+ was fine.
We've been through all the pain, and all the highs. I have two beautiful daughters who have left the nest, and enjoying their lives to the maximum.
There's no way I would ever press them for grandchildren. Whatever happens, happens.
The only thing I wanted was not to have just one child. 0 or 2+ was fine.
We've been through all the pain, and all the highs. I have two beautiful daughters who have left the nest, and enjoying their lives to the maximum.
There's no way I would ever press them for grandchildren. Whatever happens, happens.
Completely agree with this statement. It seems that as soon as you answer the inevitable question "do you/when are you going to have kids" with the standard "Don't intend on ever having kids" many people take it as a direct criticism of their own personal choice to have had kids.
I don't know personally of anyone who regrets their choice not to have kids and my friends are all in late 30's early 40's. I do know one woman who wants kids desperately but doesn't have them and no man on the horizon to have them with, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
I've stayed away from any thread involving kids because this is a difficult for my wife and I. Many people have said expressed how wonderful their lives are with children and a few have stated they don't want children and are very happy with that decision.
I've been watching this discussion for a few days and for the most part have wanted to respond but didn't want to share my experiences. On the other hand I think it's worth explaining a third point of view...
For many years I wanted children but didn't put any pressure on my wife because I never was comfortable enough with our finances. For many years she was uncertain about how she'd go as a mum and was reluctant.
One night I told her she was 35 and if she was going to have children, we'd better not wait any longer. It was like a switch was flicked. She became very focused on having children almost overnight.
Unfortunately it was not to be. After a year of trying, we started to see doctors and ended up in front of an IVF specialist. Since then we've done 15 cycles. The shrinks tell you that it can be tough going through the hope of a cycle only for it to fail, but you don't really appreciate how difficult this can be until the fourth or fifth unsuccessful attempt. We weren't even getting any viable embryos so there wasn't even an attempt at a pregnancy. From there it gets even more difficult.
We changed tactics, got a new specialist and attempted some different treatment protocols. After some more cycles we managed to get a viable embryo which could be implanted but this did not stick and there was no pregnancy. Whilst this was disappointing it did give us hope and we kept going with renewed vigour. On most subsequent cycles we did manage to get several embryos, but none resulted in a pregnancy. Imagine how this can feel. You've checked the boxes, everything looks good and you're only one step away from reaching the objective you've worked hard for. You have to wait 2 weeks before getting the tests done only to be disappointed. Then try it another 5 times.
From there we decided to change tactics again. Whilst the specialists couldn't point to a specific reason for our lack of success, a high probability factor was my wife's age, she was now over 40. We investigated and ultimately recruited an egg donor. Whilst this process to considerable time and effort, we did manage to go through two cycles which produced several embryos. Most were put on ice but some were implanted.
The first implantation was about 2 years ago and this did result in a pregnancy. The embryo didn't develop properly and my wife miscarried a few weeks later.
It broke her heart but about 6 months later she felt she was up to trying again. A few more tries and another pregnancy was the result. This one was looking fairly good and a foetus started to form. By about 12 weeks however, it became clear that it was several weeks behind schedule and was not going to be viable. The result was a very long night at an emergency department as my wife cried through bouts of either pain or sadness with doctors able to do nothing other than monitor.
18 months we've still got two embryos on ice but my wife is reluctant to try again, knowing what the likely outcome will be. We may go back sometime next year because she wants to give it every possible chance of success. The though of another miscarriage terrifies her however.
We get endless pieces of advice to so see one person or another and frankly I'm tired of getting advice as it only reminds us that we've been incredibly unlucky. Most of the couples at IVF support groups have disappeared because they've enjoyed a successful outcome. We're not interested in various couples without children groups because most of these people don't want children, we're exactly the opposite.
Our chances of a natural conception are almost zero. Over the years my brother and sister have had 4 girls between them and last Wednesday my youngest sister give birth to the first boy in our extended family. My wife is yet to visit as she's worried seeing the baby will put her into a spiral of depression, but at the same time we're very happy for my sister and for all of our nieces. All of my siblings have told me that after seeing what we went through, they decided to get started fairly quickly with having children.
We've decided that adoption isn't a viable option. In Victoria, less than 20 children are adopted every year despite record numbers of children needing foster care. Overseas adoption is a quagmire of red tape. You're only allowed in the queue for one country at a time and you can wait for years only for that country to change their policy and you're back to square one. Our lives have been out of control for far too long to want to be willing to go through this. We are considering permanent care where you're not considered the parent, but are the legal guardian.
My wife wants children more desperately than ever. Personally though I've been tired of the roller coaster of hope and disappointment for years now. I just want us to move on with our lives. I do love my wife more than anything else however, and I'll keep going as long as she needs to .
In the meantime our lives are taking other directions. Last year we spent almost 6 weeks overseas on holidays and another 3 weeks on holidays domestically. Whilst my brother and sisters are trying to make ends meet with school fees and demanding children, then teenagers, I'll be the one buying more property and offering to take them to Disneyland when their parents can't afford to. Since we haven't been trying IVF cycles our disposable income is quite high and we enjoy reasonably expensive sports and other activities. Most of our close friends have great kids (we avoid those with brats) and we love spending time with them.
My advice to those thinking about having or not having children. If you even think you want children, don't leave it too long. The chances of conception are still good, but reduce drastically after a woman turns 32. By 40 it's incredibly difficult and we only hear about the success stories. IVF is available but the truth is that whilst they known a lot about conceiving babies, there's a lot more that they don't know. Also putting an unfertilised egg on ice when you're young to be stored for later has almost no chance of success.
If you decide not to have children be prepared to live with that decision for the rest of your life. You can have a great life without them, but it's not an easy road to travel even if you don't have to go through what we did.
BYW, this is my new nephew Max. Born 18/09/2013 2:30am 6.5 pounds. This little guy makes me pretty happy.
I've been watching this discussion for a few days and for the most part have wanted to respond but didn't want to share my experiences. On the other hand I think it's worth explaining a third point of view...
For many years I wanted children but didn't put any pressure on my wife because I never was comfortable enough with our finances. For many years she was uncertain about how she'd go as a mum and was reluctant.
One night I told her she was 35 and if she was going to have children, we'd better not wait any longer. It was like a switch was flicked. She became very focused on having children almost overnight.
Unfortunately it was not to be. After a year of trying, we started to see doctors and ended up in front of an IVF specialist. Since then we've done 15 cycles. The shrinks tell you that it can be tough going through the hope of a cycle only for it to fail, but you don't really appreciate how difficult this can be until the fourth or fifth unsuccessful attempt. We weren't even getting any viable embryos so there wasn't even an attempt at a pregnancy. From there it gets even more difficult.
We changed tactics, got a new specialist and attempted some different treatment protocols. After some more cycles we managed to get a viable embryo which could be implanted but this did not stick and there was no pregnancy. Whilst this was disappointing it did give us hope and we kept going with renewed vigour. On most subsequent cycles we did manage to get several embryos, but none resulted in a pregnancy. Imagine how this can feel. You've checked the boxes, everything looks good and you're only one step away from reaching the objective you've worked hard for. You have to wait 2 weeks before getting the tests done only to be disappointed. Then try it another 5 times.
From there we decided to change tactics again. Whilst the specialists couldn't point to a specific reason for our lack of success, a high probability factor was my wife's age, she was now over 40. We investigated and ultimately recruited an egg donor. Whilst this process to considerable time and effort, we did manage to go through two cycles which produced several embryos. Most were put on ice but some were implanted.
The first implantation was about 2 years ago and this did result in a pregnancy. The embryo didn't develop properly and my wife miscarried a few weeks later.
It broke her heart but about 6 months later she felt she was up to trying again. A few more tries and another pregnancy was the result. This one was looking fairly good and a foetus started to form. By about 12 weeks however, it became clear that it was several weeks behind schedule and was not going to be viable. The result was a very long night at an emergency department as my wife cried through bouts of either pain or sadness with doctors able to do nothing other than monitor.
18 months we've still got two embryos on ice but my wife is reluctant to try again, knowing what the likely outcome will be. We may go back sometime next year because she wants to give it every possible chance of success. The though of another miscarriage terrifies her however.
We get endless pieces of advice to so see one person or another and frankly I'm tired of getting advice as it only reminds us that we've been incredibly unlucky. Most of the couples at IVF support groups have disappeared because they've enjoyed a successful outcome. We're not interested in various couples without children groups because most of these people don't want children, we're exactly the opposite.
Our chances of a natural conception are almost zero. Over the years my brother and sister have had 4 girls between them and last Wednesday my youngest sister give birth to the first boy in our extended family. My wife is yet to visit as she's worried seeing the baby will put her into a spiral of depression, but at the same time we're very happy for my sister and for all of our nieces. All of my siblings have told me that after seeing what we went through, they decided to get started fairly quickly with having children.
We've decided that adoption isn't a viable option. In Victoria, less than 20 children are adopted every year despite record numbers of children needing foster care. Overseas adoption is a quagmire of red tape. You're only allowed in the queue for one country at a time and you can wait for years only for that country to change their policy and you're back to square one. Our lives have been out of control for far too long to want to be willing to go through this. We are considering permanent care where you're not considered the parent, but are the legal guardian.
My wife wants children more desperately than ever. Personally though I've been tired of the roller coaster of hope and disappointment for years now. I just want us to move on with our lives. I do love my wife more than anything else however, and I'll keep going as long as she needs to .
In the meantime our lives are taking other directions. Last year we spent almost 6 weeks overseas on holidays and another 3 weeks on holidays domestically. Whilst my brother and sisters are trying to make ends meet with school fees and demanding children, then teenagers, I'll be the one buying more property and offering to take them to Disneyland when their parents can't afford to. Since we haven't been trying IVF cycles our disposable income is quite high and we enjoy reasonably expensive sports and other activities. Most of our close friends have great kids (we avoid those with brats) and we love spending time with them.
My advice to those thinking about having or not having children. If you even think you want children, don't leave it too long. The chances of conception are still good, but reduce drastically after a woman turns 32. By 40 it's incredibly difficult and we only hear about the success stories. IVF is available but the truth is that whilst they known a lot about conceiving babies, there's a lot more that they don't know. Also putting an unfertilised egg on ice when you're young to be stored for later has almost no chance of success.
If you decide not to have children be prepared to live with that decision for the rest of your life. You can have a great life without them, but it's not an easy road to travel even if you don't have to go through what we did.
BYW, this is my new nephew Max. Born 18/09/2013 2:30am 6.5 pounds. This little guy makes me pretty happy.
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Thanks Deena, I do appreciate it but my post is not one to seek sympathy. I've meant to write that particular post hundreds of times but haven't for this reason. My intention is simply to hopefully help people make an educated decision about children. I understand that some people don't want them, but I know better than most the cost of having that choice taken away from you.
I'm actually feeling pretty good about children this week as a result of Max coming along.
Those nieces and nephew have an awesome uncle Pete and incredible aunt Deb .
Max is just gorgeous.
E
. Max is just gorgeous.
E
PT,have you considered eg:http://www.bigbrothersbigsisters.org.au/ .
PT Bear, you've touched on a sad situation. My MIL and FIL are the same - they tried for nearly 20 years to fall pregnant, and the one time she fell, my MIL miscarried with an ectopic pregnancy at seven weeks. She absolutely treasures my husband (stepchild) and I know she would have adored having her own kids.
Given all that, they are incredibly understanding of our position in choosing not to have children.
Given all that, they are incredibly understanding of our position in choosing not to have children.
Yes; I can never understand that thinking.
A child doesn't need a brother or sister so they don't feel lonely as they grow up.
The whole thing is a load of guff.
It has it's parents - if they can be bothered to be engaged with their child (why have one otherwise?), and the parent can also arrange for the child to go to regular day care centres for designated sessions to get interaction with other children, etc.
Our oldest son was 9 before he had another sibling, and he had a blast as an only child - we spent a lot of time with him, we traveled a lot etc, he went to daycare and kinder - no shortage of stimulation and so on.
I have 2 sisters and a brother, and I get on with them ok, but still preferred to be on my own as a kid most of the time. We were not joined at the hip by any stretch of the imagination growing up - all had our own paths, pretty much.
There are plenty of folk who rarely talk to their siblings, or this one talks to that one, but not the others, etc.
I also have a cousin who is an only child and he is pretty well adjusted and has a good social circle.
One of my groomsmen and his wife are still childless in their mid and late forties repsectively. They love to "borrow" everyone else's kids and then give them back, and they are very generous with presents etc when they visit folk...but are happy to stay childless.
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PT Bear,
I understand some of the pain you and your wife are feeling.
We were able to have our first child with ease. It took us 4 years (and 4 miscarriages) to get our second child. I figured if it took us this long, we should try straight away for our third. Something must have fixed, as he arrived 12 months and 12 days after our second child.
If it was up to me I would have continued to have as many as arrived, as I was always fascinated with large families.
My daughter has always said she didn't want kids. In truth, I think it is pregnancy she is afraid of..all the needles. In the last year, she has started to say "if I have a baby". Her fiance really wants kids, so that may be a deciding factor. She is only 29, so she has time.
Wanting kids, and no being able to have them, is heartbreaking.
I have a hard time understanding people, who don't want them.
I understand some of the pain you and your wife are feeling.
We were able to have our first child with ease. It took us 4 years (and 4 miscarriages) to get our second child. I figured if it took us this long, we should try straight away for our third. Something must have fixed, as he arrived 12 months and 12 days after our second child.
If it was up to me I would have continued to have as many as arrived, as I was always fascinated with large families.
My daughter has always said she didn't want kids. In truth, I think it is pregnancy she is afraid of..all the needles. In the last year, she has started to say "if I have a baby". Her fiance really wants kids, so that may be a deciding factor. She is only 29, so she has time.
Wanting kids, and no being able to have them, is heartbreaking.
I have a hard time understanding people, who don't want them.
Cheers for everyone's input and thanks too for being so open bear , best to you and your wife.
It's a shame you're getting judged for not having kids but it's good you're married as i've heard from single guys in their late 30's and 40's that people think they're a creeper.
I also think it can be sour grapes for those who are tied down to a job and mortgage and live in a certain area because their kids go to school . Perhaps some of them are stuck in a loveless relationship and can't leave for the sake of the kids and envy people who can travel on a whim without worrying about kids.
It's a shame you're getting judged for not having kids but it's good you're married as i've heard from single guys in their late 30's and 40's that people think they're a creeper.
I also think it can be sour grapes for those who are tied down to a job and mortgage and live in a certain area because their kids go to school . Perhaps some of them are stuck in a loveless relationship and can't leave for the sake of the kids and envy people who can travel on a whim without worrying about kids.
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You sound like a great uncle Peter and you seem to have a full life. I wish you and your wife all the best.
I've always been a bit "on the fence" about kids but will probably not have any due to some genetic medical conditions that I have and will likely pass on. It'd either have to be adoption or a surrogate/egg donor combo. The latter seems possible (although tough), the latter probably impossible and I'm not too comfortable with the idea anyway. I'm 28 at present - we'll see what happens I guess.
I've always been a bit "on the fence" about kids but will probably not have any due to some genetic medical conditions that I have and will likely pass on. It'd either have to be adoption or a surrogate/egg donor combo. The latter seems possible (although tough), the latter probably impossible and I'm not too comfortable with the idea anyway. I'm 28 at present - we'll see what happens I guess.
Thanks for sharing Peter (PT Bear). Your post will no doubt inspire many people in various ways.
I wonder how many childless couples who wanted kids but couldn't have them would consider fostering needy children.
I used to work with a man who with his wife fostered underprivileged and disadvantaged children, some of whom had suffered quite horrible family lives and I thought he was the most selfless, caring person for doing so.
I used to work with a man who with his wife fostered underprivileged and disadvantaged children, some of whom had suffered quite horrible family lives and I thought he was the most selfless, caring person for doing so.
