Life as a tenant

[Ray Brown]

Hi all,

after being a home owner for the last 7 years and owning several IPs, renting is an unpleasant experience viewed from my perpective.

The first thing I realised was that once you sign on the dotted line, you are stuck with the place - "same as when you buy a property" you say.

But its not.
This place we took a six month lease on has no ceiling insulation at all. It was 7 degrees hotter inside than outside today. There is no aircon, no fans and no flyscreens. If I owned it, I could stick a houselot of batts in for a couple of hundred bucks, screen it for the same and throw up a couple of fans. Because I don't own it, I have to ask the landlord to please consider it. It turns out that the landlord is a complete tightarse. "Forget it" But how would I know that prior to signing the lease? I don't think there is a tenancy database equivalent for tenants.

Another thing was the application process. The questions are very personal and irrelevant IMO. "what is your salary" etc. The agents get a little self-important and strut around like they are prison wardens.

Just remember - look after your tenants and they will stay for a long time.

 

[The Y-man]

Hi all,

But its not.
This place we took a six month lease on has no ceiling insulation at all. It was 7 degrees hotter inside than outside today. There is no aircon, no fans and no flyscreens. If I owned it, I could stick a houselot of batts in for a couple of hundred bucks, screen it for the same and throw up a couple of fans. Because I don't own it, I have to ask the landlord to please consider it. It turns out that the landlord is a complete tightarse. "Forget it" But how would I know that prior to signing the lease? I don't think there is a tenancy database equivalent for tenants.

I need to sell you my portable refrigerated air con unit bought specifically for this purpose.

Another thing was the application process. The questions are very personal and irrelevant IMO. "what is your salary" etc. The agents get a little self-important and strut around like they are prison wardens.

Just remember - look after your tenants and they will stay for a long time.

Sounds like the market is pretty tight up there. In Melbourne, you go in and the first thing you do if you find a half decent place is to start negotiating the rent (down of course....).

I always think it would be funny if I rented from one of the agents that manages our properties ....... "Could you chase up the late rent on my property, and also tell my landlord that the fan in the bathroom is busted?".....

Cheers,

The Y-man

 

[Ray Brown]

How much for the aircon?


Yep, rentals are reasonably tight. But not as tight as the agent would tell you if you were looking.

Another idea I had, I dont know what forumites think of this...

I wouldn't mind if a prospective tenant came to me and asked for a week cooling-off period. Just to see if they liked the place. It would establish a good relationship from the start. You could, say, charge them two weeks rent for the first week - and they could have the option of not taking it. It would benefit property owners who take pains to ensure the comfort of tenants, and cause problems for owners of houses like this dump.

 

[geoffw]

Hehe. I'm sure PM's would love it as well.

One week's rent letting fee, 1 week for advertising and incidentals- 2 weeks later they're ready to do it again

 

[Ray Brown]

Hehe. I'm sure PM's would love it as well.

One week's rent letting fee, 1 week for advertising and incidentals- 2 weeks later they're ready to do it again

They would have thier hand out for sure. Thats what the extra rent would be for.

That letting fee thing is such a joke.


Dont forget the GST and petties.

 

[Dazz]

There is no aircon, no fans and no flyscreens. If I owned it, I could stick a houselot of batts in for a couple of hundred bucks, screen it for the same and throw up a couple of fans. Because I don't own it, I have to ask the landlord to please consider it. It turns out that the landlord is a complete tightarse. "Forget it" But how would I know that prior to signing the lease?

Just popping my industrial Lessor's hat on for just a second, I'm completely confused why you signed up for a lease to the place (in your words a "dump")at the rental rate you agreed to, and then after the fact expect the Landlord to improve the place, at his cost - for your pleasure.

It's their house, but while you lease it, it's your home. Why not ask their permission and then go ahead and install the extras you so listed. What's stopping you from putting in the extras you want, and then sit back and enjoy them. Your dollars - your choice. Your underlying assumption in all of this is that you want it, but you don't want to pay for any of it. If you changed that, maybe things would look a little rosier. Calling the Landlord a "tightarse" is a bit like the kettle and the pot.

Flipping the attitude coin around, you might even create some Landlord and PM goodwill. It's not against the law for residential tenants to actually spend money on the house, rather than just standing there with their hands on their hips complaining. Being wet nursed by residential Landlords seems to be the standard expectation.

Thankfully we don't play along with those games any more.

If you don't like the, in your opinion - "dump", then put in a notice to leave and forfeit what you need to, to get out. If your signing and moving in was a huge mistake, I'd suggest sit it out, pay a larger rent next time and get something more to your tastes.

Views like this are the exact reason we don't purchase these types of properties anymore.

Don't be bad mouthing the Landlord or PM. You willingly agreed to move in there at the, no doubt, appropriately low rental rate.

By the way, this time last year we were also renting, but found the whole experience a pleasure. The Landlord chipped in for minor things and we chipped in for the bulk of stuff that WE wanted. We enjoyed the improvements we made, and the Landlord got a belated bonus when we left. Win-win. We all got on swimmingly, but then I didn't approach the whole show from a typical residential tenants attitude.

You're heading for a lose - lose.

 

[thefirstbruce]

Ray, I can relate re the crappy cheap rentals. I am renting a home away from home in Mango Hill currently. Great street appeal. but the nastiest construction I have ever come across. though you wouldn;t know until you lived in itt for a few weeks:

- no insulation, .therfore hot as hell.
- the central air con is underpowered for the cathedral ceilings and open plan design.
- no ugly security screens, so we have to lock up during the day, = more heat.
- the doors are the lightest construction I have ever come across. = they slam closed with the slightest breeze. plus no auto door jams...
- the landscaping sucks. no topsoil, so grass is a bugger to mow.
- plus the block is bigger than most, which equals it has encumbrances running through it. which means more dirt for me to mow....
- the HWS develops a Chinese water torture leak at night when the suburban water pressure increases.......a bugger getting to sleep in two of the rooms.....
- the very obvious door bell doesn't work.

Renting is crap......when from crap PMs and PIers.

Heed well landlords......I am not continuing the lease unless many of the above are fixed. But then again, maybe it has been tight landlords that have inspired so many Aussies to be home owners.....

 

[plumtree]

Another thread complaining about landlords because the tenant did not take the effort to check things out! It is that thing called 'due diligence'. It is somthing we often have to undertake during our life. The rental lease, as I know it, has evolved into a very fair and reasonable contract. A tenant is allowed to check the rental property and arrange to have discrepencies modified. It is very difficult to "pull the wool over", tenant or landlord, so if you find yourself living in unsatisfactory conditions you know who to blame.

Like all investing, property investing involves making money, so a landlord has to do a costing and if expenses infringe on that it may be necessary to increase the rent. Therefore, you are able to rent the property at that price because of it's condition. If you want more then you have to pay more,either indirectly as increased rent or directly to have the work done.

Market forces will determine the rent! If the house is not up to standard a lower rent will be charged. For a property above the standard you are required to pay more. In areas where there are few rentals available you are likely to pay more. If a landlord determines that his property is worth a certain rent you can check it out to determine if you want to rent it. To contribute to the landlords expenses after coming to an signed and binding agreement is clearly 'slack' and morally corrupt.

 

[Xenia]

Hi Ray,
Great Post! It's obvious by the state of the property that the landlord is not a professional.

If I was your landlord, I would be happy to accomodate all your needs, but it would have to be in exchange for a longer term lease and increased weekly payments. As a landlord, I consider my properties as a business, and tenants are my clients. But it all has to be win/win.

 

[The Wild One]

I have a single ederly lady in one of my propertries. Going back late last year she ask for an airconditioner to be installed. I replied, I'll install an air con and a remote door opener for an extra $15 a week.
The Air cost me $850 installed back to back.(1 1/2 hp. ) and the remote was $380 installed. Plus a safety switch and power popint $185.
I pay about $99 pa. interest on these items and get back $780 pa. It's these sorts of things that can turn a negative ip into a postive cash flow ip.
But I got annoyed with her when she started to ask for new curtains. I can remember back when my wife and I rented we put our own curtains up and put theirs back when we left.
I agree with Daz if there's no money to be made from the deal, why would you bother.

John.

 

[mitch]

l think having an idea of your tennants income is vital

lf they cant afford to pay the rent , who gets to suffer ?

l dont think you can have too much relivant imformation about a new tennant as im sure l dont want issues a few months in.

 

[thefirstbruce]

WildOne, that's the way to do business.

Plumtree, there's a limit to how much due diligence one can do. Some investors are very adept at spending as little as possible to give the appearance a renter's criteria are being met. This is deception in my eyes, and only fosters ill will.

 

[Andrew_A]

Rewarding tenants

I bought one set of tenants movie tickets this Christmas to show how I appreciated them.

It's definitely give and take though as another tenant wanted a lease renewal at the same price ($20 under market rates) which I didn't give. I would very much have liked to agree to the reduced price for a yearly lease but this particular tenant was the type of person who wanted a tradesman to change a light bulb and made life tough for the managing agents.

When I rented the worst thing was when I had to move because of a sale, I did that 3 times in 3 years.

 

[Ray Brown]

... the tenant did not take the effort to check things out! It is that thing called 'due diligence'. It is somthing we often have to undertake during our life.

...Market forces will determine the rent! If the house is not up to standard a lower rent will be charged. For a property above the standard you are required to pay more.

We "checked it out" allright, but like thefirstbruce says - appears good, but actually not good at all. The house is as good as it appears in some areas, but lacking in others. If the house is not up to appearances standard, a lower rent will follow. If however its an uncomfortable house, prospective tenants will never know until its too late. The house will churn tenants, the owner will lose, the tenants will lose.

For example

• Plumbing problems that are not apparent at first glance and the owner not interested in taking action to remedy the fault after many complaints.

• Unbearably hot inside due to no insulation or ceiling ventilation, not obvious during inspection undertaken in the morning. I always act immediately when my tenants complain about heat/cold.

Why not ask their permission and then go ahead and install the extras you so listed. What's stopping you from putting in the extras you want, and then sit back and enjoy them. Your dollars - your choice.

Very good point dazzling, I might even consider it. What would it cost, I reckon about $500 for a roof vent and some batts. Its just that I wouldn't expect a tenant to pay to "improve" any of my properties. I'm talking about faults that are not easily recognisable on first inspection.

A tenant of mine recently asked if they could buy a floor fan while they were waiting for one of the ceiling fans to be replaced. No worries, take it out of next weeks rent, I said. They got the cheapest floor fan they could find, like $18.95 or something. I didn't ask them to buy a cheapie, I trusted them to behave reasonably.

I know there are bad tenants out there but there are bad landlords and agents as well.

Views like this are the exact reason we don't purchase these types of properties anymore.

Don't be bad mouthing the Landlord or PM. You willingly agreed to move in there at the, no doubt, appropriately low rental rate.

Views like what? I found that the house is by far the most uncomfortable I have ever been in for the reasons I have mentioned. I approached the agent and the owner to fix the problems and the general reply was... Oh well, better luck next time. You lose.
By "these types of properties" do you mean properties residential or any property with hidden faults which you hope some poor sucker wont notice until they have signed up?

The rental is not low IMO, actually slightly higher than similar sounding properties.
To top it off, when discussing breaking the lease, the PM suggested that anyone new interested in the property wouldn't have to know about the heat problem, now would they?

 

[Ray Brown]

l think having an idea of your tennants income is vital

lf they cant afford to pay the rent , who gets to suffer ?

l dont think you can have too much relivant imformation about a new tennant as im sure l dont want issues a few months in.

Perhaps its not what you earn but what you do with it that is important.
Some people can live on very little, some people need all their pay and a couple of maxed out credit cards just to survive to next payday.

 

[skater]

I approached the agent and the owner to fix the problems and the general reply was... Oh well, better luck next time. You lose.

The rental is not low IMO, actually slightly higher than similar sounding properties.
To top it off, when discussing breaking the lease, the PM suggested that anyone new interested in the property wouldn't have to know about the heat problem, now would they?

As a landlord, sometimes it is a juggling act to keep tenants happy. I believe that a tenant looks at the house before they agree to rent it, so asking for money to be spent after they move in is a bit rude. I don't mind if there is a win/win situation, but if they want extra amenities & don't want to pay extra for them I will usually say no. I always keep my properties well maintained, though, so that is a different issue all together.

If the house is uncomfortable, why not ask if they could install air conditioning & in return you will pay extra rent. That would be a win/win situation for both of you. One of our tenants wanted fans put in the rooms (there was air conditioning already there) so they bought them & we installed them. Win/win, we keep the fans when they go, they have what they want now for no extra rent.

We also have another tenant (long term) who is regularly asking for extras. She always gets the same answer. No! She doesn't want to pay extra, but wants us to spend big time on things that will benefit her only. The house is well maintained & any faults are repaired promptly, but new amenities are not going to be installed without a rental increase.

Then we move to another long term tenant who is leasing a very nice house in excellent condition. He didn't like the colour it was painted (tired, but not ready for a repaint), so he repainted it himself (he is a painter by trade & it looks lovely).

 

[The Y-man]

By "these types of properties" do you mean properties residential or any property with hidden faults which you hope some poor sucker wont notice until they have signed up?

Hi Ray,

I think the Dazzler mentioned he doesn't do residentials any more - goes commercial and/or industrial. One of the big differences when you go commercial is that tenants are responsible for (assuming your lease says so!) fitouts, repairs, etc.

Cheers,

The Y-man

 

[plumtree]

I am sorry that you got a bad deal, Ray, but I will bet it never happens to you again. The next time you rent the agent will certainly know what due diligence means.

Despite your bad deal I still feel that a rental lease is a contract that is firm and no modifications should be expected unless you offer a consideration. If you want an extra you should pay extra.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

plumtree,

What are you apologising for? Okay, so there's no insulation in the roof. Big deal. I'm spending my first summer here in Queensland and have come to the conclusion that I wouldn't live in a rental that didn't have a/c. It would absolutely have to have a/c.

If Ray chooses to rent a house that doesn't have a/c then complains that it's too hot, then he needs to sit down and have a think about the way HE inspects rentals. It's not up to the landlord to fix this issue if he's not willing to pay extra rent.

As for the other issues like the plumbing, etc - I agree that that is pretty dodgy. I'd be getting in contact with the Tenant's Union or whatever body it is up here that deals with these sorts of issues on behalf of tenants.

Mark

 

[Ray Brown]

I wouldn't live in a rental that didn't have a/c. It would absolutely have to have a/c.

If Ray chooses to rent a house that doesn't have a/c then complains that it's too hot, then he needs to sit down and have a think about the way HE inspects rentals.

OK, next time I look at a rental property, I'll be sure to bring a ladder and a torch, and time my arrival to the most unpleasantly hot/cold time of day/year, because you can't trust anybody.

I live in Cairns normally and I'm of the opinion if the house gets a sea breeze, then I don't need aircon. There are heaps of ways we can design houses and improve old ones so that we take advantage the local breezes and avoid locking ourselves up inside in the aircon - chewing up coal in the process.

I think everybody needs to sit down and have a think about the impact of our "flick on the aircon" way of life.

But I think I've got off the subject.

This house is disgustingly hot.
I was unable to tell it was going to be so bad. (I knew about Queenslanders)
I cant wait for the lease to expire.
The landlord doesn't give a toss.
He thinks we are whinging.
I think I've been deceived.

Great outcome.