Little white lies you've told to secure a property

I've used the I'm a "buyer's advocate" for a super duper rich jet-setting Chinese in this case (who rocked up in a Porsche). So I probably have two options here:

- Either I wait until her vendor gives up, because it's obviously been on market for 3 months;
- Or, I tell her my jet-setting friend is about to buy something in Monaco and will never come back to Melb because he likes the air there more, and here's his final offer, take it or leave it and you have 5 days because he's going to sign the Monaco deal
 
I cannot count the number of times here on this forum that some members have bagged out RE agents for lying (even in this very thread), and here on this thread it seems to be turning into a "who can tell the best lies to get the best deal" competition.

I'm coming from a different viewpoint. My late mother was an agent, very honest, highly respected (believe it or not). I was taught not to lie and I don't lie well. Mum always said that to be a good liar to need to have a good memory.

I've never lied to get a property. I don't lie well anyway. I try not to lie but of course, we all tell white lies every day but I would never feel comfortable telling a lie to get something at the expense of someone else.

To my mind, a vendor knows what sort of money they need or want from a sale. Unless there is a dire circumstances forcing them to accept a low offer, why would they take such an offer. And I guess if the vendor has a really pressing need to sell quickly, a purchaser could take advantage of that knowledge, but as a buyer, I would not be comfortable doing that, and wouldn't do it. (I would be thinking "how is karma going to get me back?")

As a vendor myself, I've never been swayed at all by any story about the purchaser's situation. I'm interested in the sale price. If anything, lowball offers make me think "I'll sell to anybody EXCEPT that person." That happened recently when we were lowballed, but ultimately the price offered by the lowball purchaser was high enough for us to accept. There was actually another buyer ready to sign, but he had conditions (sale of his house and finance). I know his house was very saleable and finance wasn't an issue, and had we not had a lawyer breathing down our necks to sell this to settle a will challenge, I would have happily signed with the "subject to" purchaser, just to spite the lowball purchaser. He didn't just lowball, he signed prior to auction and then decided to pull out. We had a lot of stress until his lawyer told him to pull his head in.

Realty was that we couldn't take the risk of telling him where to go when we had a cash offer that was now high enough. It did remove any goodwill we had towards the buyer. Instead of handing over a very thick file of the products used in the renovation, contacts, plans and drawings, we binned them. When he wants to find out anything about "what is that cladding?" if he renovates again (as he plans to do) he can go whistle.

My MIL told me a story recently that her sister sold her property to a family who told her they could only afford to pay a certain amount, they didn't have enough to pay more, blah, blah. The aunt sold it for that amount. She is not a stupid woman but was under a lot of stress. My MIL is saying her sister sold because this family lied and she fell for it. Turns out the purchasers had just sold a development block for $3M and could likely have afforded to pay more, but who really knows?

My MILs sister made the decision to accept the lower offer NOT because the purchasing family lied and pretended they couldn't pay any more, but because her husband was very ill and her children were pushing her to move to a property closer to health care. Those purchasers probably thought they were pretty smart saying they had a budget, but the truth is the sale went through due to personal circumstances, and not the vendor being duped by their lie.
 
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I cannot count the number of times here on this forum that some members have bagged out RE agents for lying (even in this very thread), and here on this thread it seems to be turning into a "who can tell the best lies to get the best deal" competition.

I'm coming from a different viewpoint. My late mother was an agent, very honest, highly respected (believe it or not). I was taught not to lie and I don't lie well. Mum always said that to be a good liar to need to have a good memory.

I've never lied to get a property. I don't lie well anyway. I try not to lie but of course, we all tell white lies every day but I would never feel comfortable telling a lie to get something at the expense of someone else.

To my mind, a vendor knows what sort of money they need or want from a sale. Unless there is a dire circumstances forcing them to accept a low offer, why would they take such an offer. And I guess if the vendor has a really pressing need to sell quickly, a purchaser could take advantage of that knowledge, but as a buyer, I would not be comfortable doing that, and wouldn't do it. (I would be thinking "how is karma going to get me back?")

As a vendor myself, I've never been swayed at all by any story about the purchaser's situation. I'm interested in the sale price. If anything, lowball offers make me think "I'll sell to anybody EXCEPT that person." That happened recently when we were lowballed, but ultimately the price offered by the lowball purchaser was high enough for us to accept. There was actually another buyer ready to sign, but he had conditions (sale of his house and finance). I know his house was very saleable and finance wasn't an issue, and had we not had a lawyer breathing down our necks to sell this to settle a will challenge, I would have happily signed with the "subject to" purchaser, just to spite the lowball purchaser. He didn't just lowball, he signed prior to auction and then decided to pull out. We had a lot of stress until his lawyer told him to pull his head in.

Realty was that we couldn't take the risk of telling him where to go when we had a cash offer that was now high enough. It did remove any goodwill we had towards the buyer. Instead of handing over a very thick file of the products used in the renovation, contacts, plans and drawings, we binned them. When he wants to find out anything about "what is that cladding?" if he renovates again (as he plans to do) he can go whistle.

My MIL told me a story recently that her sister sold her property to a family who told her they could only afford to pay a certain amount, they didn't have enough to pay more, blah, blah. The aunt sold it for that amount. She is not a stupid woman but was under a lot of stress. My MIL is saying her sister sold because this family lied and she fell for it. Turns out the purchasers had just sold a development block for $3M and could likely have afforded to pay more, but who really knows?

My MILs sister made the decision to accept the lower offer NOT because the purchasing family lied and pretended they couldn't pay any more, but because her husband was very ill and her children were pushing her to move to a property closer to health care. Those purchasers probably thought they were pretty smart saying they had a budget, but the truth is the sale went through due to personal circumstances, and not the vendor being duped by their lie.


My opinion is the reality of the business world is harsh, to say the least. Eat, or be eaten. Its really that simple and to think otherwise IMHO is naive. Now everyone has their own moral line which they draw at some point. But IMO all the tactics mentioned on this thread is fare game and just plain business smart. At least for me personally, nothing mentioned on this thread has crossed the threshold of my moral line.
 
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When you try to be honest as often as possible, you start to see the lies and liars more clearly. Things they say don't add up. They think that the only way to get ahead is to lie and pretend and wonder why others jack them around. Also, a waste of headspace.
Having said that, good one MTR, that BA was not on your side. Also, congratulations Jacque.
In business, the personal circumstances of the ones I negotiate with are none of my business. Likewise, I keep my cards held close to my chest. When I start hearing sob stories I get turned right off.
 
wylie - happy to use more honest tactics, but when you suspect the other side is starting on a dishonest foot, there's not much room left to be honest.
 
Asking other agents in the same office (or PAs) can sometimes uncover two different stories too.

Or agents in another office.

I've had some success with talking to agents that have nothing to do with marketing a property, but may have pitched for the listing so they have knowledge of the sellers motivation etc.

eg - I'm interested in property x listed with ray white. I inspect property Y listed with the professionals. Hang around chatting with the professionals agent, say I'm not interested in Y, they know I'm not interested in Y, but let their guard down. By the end of the conversation the professionals agent has let slip that the vendors for property x won't go below $xxx,sss, are a divorcing couple, need a quick settlement, want a long settlement, bank is about to foreclose, need the money quick for a new kidney etc etc.
 
I cannot count the number of times here on this forum that some members have bagged out RE agents for lying (even in this very thread), and here on this thread it seems to be turning into a "who can tell the best lies to get the best deal" competition.

Buyer: How do you know if an agent is lying? Their lips are moving.
Agent: How do you know if buyer is lying? Their lips are moving.

I try not lie during negotiations, but rather be evasive. Answer a question with a question etc. Only ask a question, to which I know the answer.

Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen, arguably a dishonest man rarely lied. He simply didn't answer questions, or answered a question with a question. When famously asked by a journo 'why do you always answer a question with a question?" he responded "What's wrong with that?"

We lie to our kids about the Easter bunny, the tooth fairy and father xmas - they work it out pretty quick.
We lie to gran about our kids sexual orientation - they work it out
etc etc etc
 
I'm not sure if honesty is the best policy here :) Telling white lies (such as I hit my budget) is not normally done for the purpose of having the seller sympathise with you, but to plant a seed of doubt on the sellers/agents mind as to how much they will come back with their counter offer without losing you as the buyer. If you present that there is a lot of leeway on your behalf, then more often than not they will try to squeeze that last few dollar out of you.

Having a done a few negotiations with agents myself, have met a few that start off with "I don't like to play games, so if you can put your best offer and we will see if the seller accept or decline without counter offering." Offer in, cue the counter offer coming in the next day as expected it will. It will be naive to expect otherwise.
 
I'm not sure if honesty is the best policy here :) Telling white lies (such as I hit my budget) is not normally done for the purpose of having the seller sympathise with you, but to plant a seed of doubt on the sellers/agents mind as to how much they will come back with their counter offer without losing you as the buyer. If you present that there is a lot of leeway on your behalf, then more often than not they will try to squeeze that last few dollar out of you.

Having a done a few negotiations with agents myself, have met a few that start off with "I don't like to play games, so if you can put your best offer and we will see if the seller accept or decline without counter offering." Offer in, cue the counter offer coming in the next day as expected it will. It will be naive to expect otherwise.

I think its just a game at the end of the day, some you win some you lose and you play it as you see it at the time.

"buyers liars", common term used by re agents, and also common that the more a buyer haggles/brings up negatives on the property is a red flag to the agent that this is a serious buyer.

Starting to think the best thing .......is to say nothing, don't show your cards whatsoever, then the agent has no idea what you are thinking or where you are going with it.
 
1. I lied to my kids about santa claus,

2. I lied to my dentist as to why I hadnt seen him for years ( i just hate dentists)

3. I lied to the catch sales girl (trying to sell financial services of some sort) who asked me if I own any investment property

4. I lie all the time to agents, in order to try and get a better deal

I dont think any of the above is a problem at all to my conscious, my values, my reputation, my self worth

however, id rather my kids not see me do (4) as i think it sends a message that you can lie to get what you want at ANY costs, however in my case, im not hurting anybody
 
"buyers liars", common term used by re agents, and also common that the more a buyer haggles/brings up negatives on the property is a red flag to the agent that this is a serious buyer.

Starting to think the best thing .......is to say nothing, don't show your cards whatsoever, then the agent has no idea what you are thinking or where you are going with it.

Excellent tips. Thanks Marisa :)
 
"I'm interested in this property, but also very interested in another very similar property."
"I will withdraw from the contract unless..."
 
Exactly. All lies but all perfectly acceptable and necessary IMHO.

Fine to have an opinion but it"s a bit rich calling it 'humble'. Negotiation skills and lies aren't the same thing. We all know that we don't disclose how much dosh we really have or let on about being a developer or let our interest show too much. But why lie for the sake of it. It's transparent. Eg. I'm thinking that your business partners are M&D?;)
 
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