Making the Transition.....

More than once there's been posts asking about full time investors etc.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has made the transition from the "security" of PAYE, to full time investor (or developer, renovator - whatever).

How did you do it?
What did you need set up?
How much $ reserve did you have?
How did you eat?
Particular struggles / hardships?
Advice / warnings?
Strategies...
Anything else to be aware of?

:( Sigh - I really am sick of working....It gets in the way of playing with property....But the scarey step of moving away from the income - and how do you service loans, live etc!!!

Of course, anyone who hasn't done it yet, but thought out strategies - feel free to contribute !

Simon.
 
sbe,

I was asking the same questions when I was thinking of starting my own business. The best advice I was given was "Just do it". That is, resign and start today.

I now give the same advice to anyone who asks me how to start a business. Yes, there will be times when you won't sleep at night; there will be times when you can't pay yourself (years back, I went for two months without pay), etc, etc but, if you can make it thru those times, not only will you learn a lot, you will know that it was meant to be.

Am I glad I did it? In a word, yes!!! After 14 years, we now run a business with 8 staff (including myself and my wife), have some great products, some terrific clients, ...... Now, I consider myself unemployable.

I believe full time investing in property would be much the same.

KieranK
 
Originally posted by kierank
sbe,
I was asking the same questions when I was thinking of starting my own business. The best advice I was given was "Just do it". That is, resign and start today.

This echoes the likes of Robert Kiyosaki's thoughts etc.. where he relates his experience of sleeping in his car at night as he had no home whilst they built the business.. or some such tripe..

Perspective changes with 2 little kids, a 2yo and 3yo, the "just do it" line wears a little thin, I would never expose my children to the potential instability that such a move would bring.

So does anyone have any more realistic thoughts or stories to relate on the subject?


Duncan.
 
I agree with Keiran, you've just got to take the risk and go for it.

When I set up my property management business it wasn't really a matter of choice - I just had to start my own business. I was sacked from every single job I ever had (and I was only 23 at the time, and I'd had something like 8 different jobs - it came to the point where my resume looked ridiculous), and I needed to find some sort of income security from somewhere.

So, I had $3,000 in the bank, i bought a computer, the necessary software (which the supplier let me pay off in installments), I did some calcs about how much business I'd need to generate so I could at least pay my bills (I didn't even think about profit at this stage), and I paid my rent up for 6 months so I didn't have that added pressure. Then I went to work establishing the business.

I just did it - I did what I needed to do at the time to get the job done. I had the conviction and belief in myself that I could do it no matter what (plus a point to prove to those who thought I couldn't do it). Sometimes I had to get a night job to support myself, and sometimes i didn't. I had to sell my first IP because of the strain it was placing on me, but that was a OK too.

It's hard, and if I'd have known how hard it was, I probably would have been too scared to do it and continued to work for a wage, but at the same time, I had no choice but to do it. There were many nights when I just couldn't believe the dire straits I was in, but I always believed that it would get better, and it did.

The business took longer than I expected to get itself going and in the middle of it I had a jealous ex who took me to court over some business issues, which was very disheartening and draining.

One word of advice I would give to anyone considering doing something for themselves would be to make sure you've got a good support network. I was yound and alone, and I couldn't talk to anyone about anything I was going through. None of my friends understood, and my Dad just thought I was mad...his advice to me was "why kill yourself, go and earn your $600 a week and be happy". So, have a good support system, people who know what your goals and ambitions are, and just do what you have to do.

Am I glad i did it? I wouldn't have it any other way! Like Keiran, I am now totally unemployable. I just can not (and would not) work for anyone else except for myself. I don't need to worry about a weekly wage or a boss, or collegues or anything like that.

When I sold my business and jumped fulltime into development it wasn't such a difficult move as I had a reasonable financial base to start from, and good cash reserves, and started off small, and this time I had great support from Roy and our families.

Now, I'm crusing and could not be happier. I don't need to work, but I still do, and life is great.

So, as Nike says, Just do it! If nothing else, it will be the most fantastic and thrilling and exciting and terrifying experience in your life!


note: I just read Duncan's post - Duncan, you have a very valid point about childred and other dependants, and I guess in this situation, you would need to be much more mindful of how your actions will affect your family. I was lucky I didn't have that to worry about.
 
I haven't made the transition to becoming a full time investor but I have been forced to change jobs. I hadn't done an interview in years or made a lot of contacts but ended up with a better job.

Some people(like me) have to be forced into doing something to make it work. Giving up your PAYE job to transition into business or full time investing may just be a matter of 'just doing it'
 
I enjoyed that JoannaK:)

I wear that "unemployable" tag also.

After years of working for my self, I went PAYG for 18 months and loathed it except for the regular paycheque and the great people.

I left a month ago and decided to go full steam ahead with property.

The PAYG experience taught me that I work better when I am hungry and out of my comfort zone and have to create opportunities and create income. I'm naturally lazy so need to provide my own kick up the backside:D

Yes it is a bit scary sometimes but also exhilarating!

So as you say "Just do it"

PS: I understand having dependents means providing for them but I still think you can create your own "hungry"mindset.
 
good thread SBE,

just wondering Ani if you can tell us a little about creating opportunities and an income?
What did you do if you dont mind?

Darren
 
I don't have a high enough risk tolerance to just resign and start out on my own no matter how much I would love to - (and yes I would LOVE to be self-employed) But I am slowly working toward eventually being able to support myself and run my own business by studying part time and getting qualifications as an accountant, paying off as much as I can on my PPOR over the next 6 years so when I graduate I won't have to worry about being homeless, and also acruing as much property as I can while I am working for the man so that if I need to I have some equity or assets to sell, as well as rental income.

I guess it comes down to knowing what your risk tolerance is and working within it to do the best you can to improve your life or achieve your dreams.

Nat:)
 
Originally posted by duncan_m
This echoes the likes of Robert Kiyosaki's thoughts etc.. where he relates his experience of sleeping in his car at night as he had no home whilst they built the business.. or some such tripe..


Duncan,

I have never read any of RK's books but I can assure you that I did not make this post because I thought my comments were tripe.

I was deadly serious. In fact, one person I gave my "Just do it" advice to was my brother (10 years my junior). At the time he took my advice, he was working in a pizza shop (10 years experience). I told him to "Just do it". Now he owns a lovely PPOR by the bay in Brisbane, has two pizza outlets in Brisbane (turning over $1million pa) and has a goal to own 5 outlets and then retire before he is 40. If he didn't "Just do it", I believe he would still be working in a pizza shop for someone else. Every time I am with my brother, he (and his wife) thanks me for that advice.

Originally posted by duncan_m

Perspective changes with 2 little kids, a 2yo and 3yo, the "just do it" line wears a little thin, I would never expose my children to the potential instability that such a move would bring.


I was exactly in this situation. When I "Just did it" in starting my business in 1990, I had a daughter 6 yo and a son 4 yo. There were times as they were growing up that they were concerned that they were couldn't approve their schooling or even put food on the table. We always assured them that we would always have a roof over our heads (at one stage, we were seriously thinking of selling our home because we were short of cash), food on the table and afford their schooling (at times, we couldn't see how). Now the kids are 19 and 17. The daughter is in second year, full-time Uni with two part-time jobs (last year, she earnt over $11,000 and paying for her HECS as she goes). She has already asked about investing in property and we are looking at helping her in this area. She has inherited that "Just do it" attitude; we can see she will make a success of her life because of it.

Our son is in his final year at a well known (and expensive) private school in Brisbane; last Xmas, he went to a boarding school in Shanghei, China from late Nov until late Jan (his choice, not ours - no time for holidays for him). As a result of this trip, he has matured into a "man"; one that any father would be proud of. We remind both of our kids on a regular basis that it is our business that has allowed us to give them the education and the qulaity of life that they are receiving. Yes, we worked hard (didn't have annual holidays for years, worked public holidays and weekends, etc). Yes, there were times when we didn't have money, etc, etc. But without "Just doing it", we would NOT have what we have today!!!

Originally posted by duncan_m

So does anyone have any more realistic thoughts or stories to relate on the subject?


My thoughts and story was very, very real and those who know me know how sincere and giving I am (ask people from BIG). This is a very serious topic and I would NOT post tripe in this thread. I am glad to see that others have similar experiences to mine and support what I was recommending.

Regards,

KieranK

PS

I understand that some may say that the approach is risky. To me, the biggest risk is TO DO NOTHING!!!
 
I am preparing to go into property fulltime. My strategy is to put a years wages (net) into separate bank account with no passbook, keycard etc. I'll setup an automatic transfer into my living account to pay myself fortnightly wages as if I was still at work. Now there are better uses for my money than sitting in an account for a year but there are a couple of reasons for this:
-sleep at night factor
-supporting young family
-it gives me 12 months to make money

This gives a sort of balance between just do it and security.
 
RPI,

Why not put that year's salary in an offset account against one of your mortgages...

That way you get a bonus 6% payrise for making the move :)

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Like your thinking RPI!

Another possibilty with your wage for the year, is put it on an IP with a revolving mortgate (but limit it to your years salary)

But I am going a few steps further:
Paying of PPOR with subdivisions and Trick and Flicks all the time while trying to balance buy and holds with + CF until finacially able to do what I enjoy.
I started in Dec 2002 and am heading that way by early to mid 2004

Just my thoughts.

wayneh
 
Originally posted by duncan_m
Perspective changes with 2 little kids, a 2yo and 3yo, the "just do it" line wears a little thin, I would never expose my children to the potential instability that such a move would bring.

So does anyone have any more realistic thoughts or stories to relate on the subject?


Duncan.

Actually Duncan I "just did it". I wanted to stay at home and look after my two youngest children full time and my partner had no formal qualifications. If I went back to work I would earn more than my partner but I decided I didn't want to miss my kids growing up. I have a 15 yr old son and I felt he missed out alot because I was a solo mother then and worked all the time.

My partner had a variety of jobs that paid minimum wage and was always getting laid off (not sacked). He got laid off from his last job because his boss didn't like his attitude (i.e. he was right). We were both really depressed, we had no money saved and a mortgage to pay, my Mastercard was ticked up to the hilt.

After about a week of both of us moping around I stood up one night and said "why don't we go into business and do what your boss was doing, but do it better, because I know we can.

There were all these obstacles in the way, put there by us. He's far more conservative than me when it comes to anything (I travelled around the world by myself when I was 23yrs). So I finally convinced him that we should do it. It wasn't as if we had any money to lose, we didn't have any money to spend either though. I tried to get a top up on my mortgage to start the business but they told me they wouldn't lend me any money because how was I going to service the mortgage (cos now there was no money coming in).

So then, that's how I discovered that you must think "outside the square to get what you want". The first time I rang the bank I had a gut feeling that they wouldn't lend me the money for a business so I had just rung up without telling them who I was. Because I had a plan in mind.

A week later I rang again, told them I wanted to put some new windows in my house and I needed $10k. That's fine they said, and 2 days later the money was in my account.

I must admit I did alot of research, found out everything I needed to know, and so we decided early on that I would run the business and he just wanted to go to work like an employee. That was fine with me. It's really horrible scarey when you first start, and there are some sleepless nights, and sometimes we have 49 cent spaghetti for dinner, (the kids love it). We just made sure that we didn't go into overdraft, and we got deposits for our jobs.

It's totally changed our whole outlook on life. We will never be the same people again, and even though sometimes, when we've got absolutely no money in the bank will still seem to fall on our feet. Our kids see more of us, my partner can now coach junior rugby for our sons team and we'll never go back to PAYE.

By taking that first plunge into business - it enabled us to quite easily take that first plunge into Investment Properties. Some friends were freaking out and others just thought that since we were in business we must be making sh..t loads of money to be able to buy property. They don't understand how you do it.

I don't feel that I was exposing my kids to potential instability - I was exposing them to life - I was exposing them to a better future - maybe a future where they wont have second thoughts about taking the plunge and "just doing it".:D

P.S. Since January, I've had another baby, paid off my own house and bought two IP's.
 
Way to go Queen Bee!

We too did not get serious about investing until the first child came along....

Duncan, Children can give you more reasons to succeed (or at least a good kick in the backside). And they have no concept of what stable is anyway. Kids are happy with what they have until us adults teach them only to be happy with what they don't have :)

NEVER let your children become the reason you're not successful...if so, what will your future relationship with them be like?

BTW: working for the Man is also instable, you're actually far more secure working for yourself :)

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Originally posted by Aceyducey
Way to go Queen Bee!

NEVER let your children become the reason you're not successful...if so, what will your future relationship with them be like?


Acey, Queen Bee etc

Thanks for the additional thoughts and extra detail.. The kids certainly aren't holding us back. We've acquired many properties in the last few years.

The move from PAYG to Full Time investing is still a little way off despite the obvious success that some of you have with equally onerous and important dependents to think for.

Cheers, Duncan.
 
Hi All,

Interesting thread. Here is my 2 cents worth.

Own our house, positive IP and three young children who mean the world to us.

We sold our 2nd IP, $50k profit to live on for the next two or so years.

That is right, we went part time in our jobs so we could be with our children whilst they are going thru a important part of life, Kinder, primary school.

Some might say, get more money for them and they will be better off.

You can never replace these years and i wouldn't miss them for any amount of money.

In two years time, there is plenty of time to make their future secure.

And whilst the kids are at school, we are planning for our future.

My 2 cents.....:D

Good luck to all

Gordon Gekko
 
Don't just do it !

I reckon “Just do it” line is a bit overdone here. It is plain stupid to “just do it” without proper analyses and reasonable plans. Odds are heavily against you – just look at the rate of failure for small businesses statistic. I believe it often seams that you “just did it”, but in reality it wasn’t “just”. Let’s be fair to people who still PAYE. If you have an idea, passion, made competitor analyses, went through “what if “ questions, educated yourself on a subject than by all means go for it, do it, and do it now. Don’t let uneducated/lazy/jealous people to stop you.

You are MUCH better doing what you do best. If it is your day job – great, if it is full time investing – even better. Simon, you ask who made a transition to full time investor (renovator, developer …). This is a huge difference between full time investor and developer/renovator. When you change to renovator/developer you really change your day job nothing more. People above talk about setting small business or becoming self-employed. It is great, but I could not identify somebody who is investor full time. Am I wrong?
 
Re: Don't just do it !

Originally posted by Mikhaila
I reckon “Just do it” line is a bit overdone here. It is plain stupid to “just do it” without proper analyses and reasonable plans.

Mikhaila,

I feel that proper analysis and planning is also overdone. When we bought our first business, we went to the bank for a loan. They wanted a Business Plan which had to include a Marketing Plan, an Operational Plan, a Staffing Plan, a Competitors' Analysis, Forecast Profit and Loss, etc, etc.

For heaven's sake, we were buying a takeaway shop that sold hot chickens and hamburgers. We weren't setting up a new airline!!! We went to another bank and they gave the loan based on my income.

KieranK
 
Last edited:
Re: Re: Don't just do it !

Originally posted by kierank

I also feel that proper analysis and planning is also overdone...

For heaven's sake, we were buying a takeaway shop that sold hot chickens and hamburgers. We were setting up a new airline!!!

Hi KieranK,

Well, what can I say… I stand firmly by my view. Hope you never run out of luck. If you have tips for next round of power ball please share :)
 
Re: Don't just do it !

Originally posted by Mikhaila
I could not identify somebody who is investor full time. Am I wrong?

Mikhaila,

What do you define as a full-time investor?

I now work full-time in my investment business - meaning that I don't work full-time in anyone else's business.

My investment business includes property development work (reno end). I am not running a small business in this - I don't do this work for other people, only on my own properties (at this stage).

I know of a number of other people on the forum who also qualify as full-time investors under this definition and there are more who chose to continue at a day job despite having the choice to stop.

Yes I do have a business plan for my investment business. Spent six months putting it together - AFTER I stopped other employment. There is such a thing as too much analysis, but it's better to err on the too much side - less risk that way :)

As for your points on small business failure - I've started six businesses (excluding my investment business), several are deceased, the others no longer owned by me (either by ex-partners or onsold) - this is since I left uni, there were a few projects & one business before then :).

If you look at small business failure rates the quoted key reasons small businesses fail are lack of knowledge/education & lack of cash flow. But the key reason people don't start their own business is fear...of what? personal & financial failure.

A business failure is not a personal failure, it's a learning experience & while the small business failure rate is high, many of those people get back in there and go on to make their 2nd, 3rd or 4th business a success. And somehow, despite the pain, it is possible to survive financially - even bankrupcy is not the end of the world...I know people who had to go bankrupt several times before making their fortunes.

Finally, I believe you can learn what you need to know to be successful, you don't need to stick to what you have done well in the past.

I believe this because I've done it, I've seen many others do it & basically because we are all born knowing nothing and good at nothing. What you are good at is a choice, what you enjoy is a choice, whether you are successful is a choice.

So get out there and break free of your comfort zone!

And remember, it takes twenty years to become an overnight success :)

Cheers,

Aceyducey

PS: I really do have a tendency to preach at times don't I :) Sorry, I'm passionate about success & get concerned when I see a post that talks down peoples' chances of succeeding.
 
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