Medicare rebate cut by $20 - from $37.05 to $16.95 for under 10 min consult

[Intrinsic_Value]

Beanie Girl,
What's your view on instating an additional wealth tax on all property owners (but at a federal level) to help pay for things.

The federal government could impose say a 0.5% annual levy on the value property, commercial, residential and industrial. Everyone pays it, both investors and home owners.

In addition we stop negative gearing.

Both of these measures would bring in a lot of extra government revenue that would help fund the issues you identify, not just on this topic thread, but on other threads that you have identified.

 

[Ausprop]

Kids out of a 6 month course at TAFE earn 75k.

6 month trained TAFE doctors anyone?

nope, forget that, import highly trained ones. remuneration for medicos in this country is ridiculous

and tradies for that matter

and unskilled labour

 

[Ausprop]

Beanie Girl,
What's your view on instating an additional wealth tax on all property owners (but at a federal level) to help pay for things.

The federal government could impose say a 0.5% annual levy on the value property, commercial, residential and industrial. Everyone pays it, both investors and home owners.

In addition we stop negative gearing.

Both of these measures would bring in a lot of extra government revenue that would help fund the issues you identify, not just on this topic thread, but on other threads that you have identified.

why on earth property? why not share holdings? or farms? or boats?

 

[Francesco]

Oh you cant ask these sought of tough questions.

It should be the governments job to come up with the magic funds right????

The government should be forced to do something, after all that's what a voters power is right????

If the government cant magic up the funds, we will vote in another government that can.

That's the people power right?????

This vein of sentiment is running strong in Australia where it is common wisdom in retirement planning to spend all their own funds first and then depend on the public to look after them.

"Only the top fifth of households ranked by their income - those with incomes of more than $200,000 a year in the financial year ending June 2012 - pay anything into the system net of the value of social security in cash and kind received, according to data from the latest Australian Bureau of Statistics survey of household income....

The bottom 6.9 million households, while often incurring income tax liabilities and regularly paying GST, received more in cash welfare and services than they paid in."

Source: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...841174461?nk=79687ac51d0bef70b98c564a2bdcfc93

Robert Kiyosaki mentioned two mantras to adhere to on the path to accumulating wealth: OPT (Other People's Time) and OPM (Other People's Money). These leverage the individual's capacity to gather wealth through mulitiplier effects.

It seems that the majority has tacitly applied these OPT and OPM mantras to distribute national wealth, instead of individually accumulating wealth. The majority prefers to direct governments to tax 'the rich' or 'borrow' the funds or 'kick the can down the road' and leave it to the future taxpayers to deal with the deficits, while agitating against any budget stringency that will reduce the free benefits.

 

[onetwothreefour]

When my kids were little, i went to gp often. I took them to many different types of gp, bulk billed or paid. The 'day' bulk billed gp were often good. The night gp, awful, usually we ended up seeing other gp few hours later. I found the paid gp ($65) per child, not so helpful. They are slow on diagnosis and treatments. And they usually don't have pathology in the premises. They are.more reluctant to give treatments or medication in one visit.

The changes will hurt young families and old people. And we don't need overseas doctors, their quality of care are poor. Nz has lots of overseas dr and their health care system is 3rd world .

 

[Ausprop]

And we don't need overseas doctors, their quality of care are poor. Nz has lots of overseas dr and their health care system is 3rd world .

we already have and we pay them exorbitantly regardless. this country is so messed up as a result of the serious distortions in the labour market.

 

[Ed Barton]

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...n-protest-at-plan-b-proposed-medicare-changes

The rebate cut can be disallowed by the Senate, but neither Labor nor the Greens have made a decision about whether they will vote against it.

"If they are serious about saving Medicare they will vote to disallow it," Owler said. "I would be shocked if they didn't".

From the initial limited reporting I assumed this cut to rebates didn't require legislative change. This article says it does. With the senate not sitting (has it even passed the lower house?) till Feb how can changes come into effect on Jan 19?

 

[topcropper]

Beanie Girl,
What's your view on instating an additional wealth tax on all property owners (but at a federal level) to help pay for things.

The federal government could impose say a 0.5% annual levy on the value property, commercial, residential and industrial. Everyone pays it, both investors and home owners.

In addition we stop negative gearing.

Both of these measures would bring in a lot of extra government revenue that would help fund the issues you identify, not just on this topic thread, but on other threads that you have identified.

I'd reckon the fairest and simplist way to bring in more revenue would be to abolish the no capital gains tax on PPOR. Why on earth should someone who sells a 10 million dollar house get to pay no capital gains tax, but if I sell a 10 million dollar farm or business or any other asset I have to pay it? Of course this would never happen as the polies are all in on the rort too with their big expensive city houses.

This no CGT on PPOR is the biggest rort going I reckon and is purely there to serve the very richest of society. It also artificially drives up the top end house prices as all the wealthy want the tax free investment.


See ya's.

 

[topcropper]

. And we don't need overseas doctors, their quality of care are poor. Nz has lots of overseas dr and their health care system is 3rd world .

So you live in the city do you?

Without overseas doctors the bush would have none. And I reckon they do a fine job. Bloody silly thing to say really!


See ya's.

 

[Beanie Girl]

From the initial limited reporting I assumed this cut to rebates didn't require legislative change. This article says it does. With the senate not sitting (has it even passed the lower house?) till Feb how can changes come into effect on Jan 19?

I think the Fed government has stooped to a regulatory step in reducing the rebate. No need for legislation passing through the senate. I think, and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, that the Senate has the power to veto the regulatory change similar to the way they acted when they vetoed the Freedom of Financial Advice regulations. Considering Palmer and a couple of others from the cross bench have come out and called this 'reduced rebate' a victory I do not expect the Senate to act. I really hope they do act, if they can, but don't hold your breath.

 

[Ed Barton]

we already have and we pay them exorbitantly regardless. this country is so messed up as a result of the serious distortions in the labour market.

Really?

A GP is self employed and only gets paid when seeing patients.

My back of the envelope calcs are that an average bulk billing GP may earn ~ 190k pa.

• Assuming:
• An average of 6 consults ph x 7 h pd x 5 x $37 =$7700pw
• 4 weeks holidays pa, 2 weeks public holidays, 2 weeks sick, 1(?) week continual medical education = 43 weeks billing
• 43*$7700= $330k
• Practice takes 40% of billing income to cover running the practice = $198k
• Out of that $198k the GP has to pay PI insurance, education costs etc.

That's a high income but I wouldn't describe it as exorbitant considering the training and responsibility a GP has.

I'd be interested in See Change's (I believe s/he is a GP) view as to whether these assumptions are correct, and what an average bulk billing GP earns.

 

[topcropper]

we already have and we pay them exorbitantly regardless. this country is so messed up as a result of the serious distortions in the labour market.

If an overseas doctor in an Australian rural area earns half a million a year, then good on em. They deserve all they get.


See ya's.

 

[Beanie Girl]

Beanie Girl,
What's your view on instating an additional wealth tax on all property owners (but at a federal level) to help pay for things.

The federal government could impose say a 0.5% annual levy on the value property, commercial, residential and industrial. Everyone pays it, both investors and home owners.

In addition we stop negative gearing.

Both of these measures would bring in a lot of extra government revenue that would help fund the issues you identify, not just on this topic thread, but on other threads that you have identified.

Short answer, no.
They're way way way below in my list to claw back revenue and grow the economy, if they're there at all,
Maybe I'll have a think about the corporate/institutional property owners of residential, commercial and industrial now that you've brought it up
but mom and dad or young people resi investors - no

As I've said before the absolute dollar value of the debt/deficit is not important
it's the ratio to GDP that's the key
If you're growing the economy, the debt pretty much takes care of itself

But first things first, stop the tax avoidance/profit shifting by global MNCs like Apple, Google, Microsoft, Ikea etc
This is way within the power of the govt to do
"Abolition of deductions under section 25-90 of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 as part of a package to combat tax minimisation by global corporations, at a projected benefit to the taxpayer of $600 million".

The 500 million being taken out of General Practice with the reduced Medicare rebate is going into some nebulous black hole 'Medical Research Fund'. Not helpful at all in controlling our 'spiralling costs' of 'medical care'.

Then we have to look into some way to have royalties or taxes from the mining companies so we can create a sovereign wealth fund much like Norway has, who use only a percentage of the interest generated from their 750 billion dollar wealth fund to fund social, health, education and welfare programs each financial year. IF we ever get a mining boom again.

Then there are others like the 10 billion given to the Reserve Bank that was neither asked for nor needed. Then there's 30-40 billion dollars recurring each year of superannuation tax concessions given as largesse by Howard during the mining boom.

Got to run now, driving to Croydon.

 

[DEC]

Originally Posted by Ausprop View Post
exactly.

or nationalise all GPs - bring in a few thousand GPs from overseas and put them all on a salary of $75k with a white camry like everyone else

I wouldn't be happy to trust my health to a fresh off boat "GP" from the back of Bangladesh who doesn't speak English and does not know the difference between a kangaroo or a can of poo.

Neither would I but you do realise that there is more to the world than India , so Dr's can be accessed from other areas and did you also know that India is the world's second largest English speaking country so chances are pretty good that the Dr's can speak it?
I know my current Indian Dr can.

Sure you can employ them for $40k a year but you get what you pay for.

How did you get from $75k with a white camry to $40k?

 

[Ed Barton]

I think the Fed government has stooped to a regulatory step in reducing the rebate. No need for legislation passing through the senate. I think, and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, that the Senate has the power to veto the regulatory change similar to the way they acted when they vetoed the Freedom of Financial Advice regulations. Considering Palmer and a couple of others from the cross bench have come out and called this 'reduced rebate' a victory I do not expect the Senate to act. I really hope they do act, if they can, but don't hold your breath.

That's a poor understanding of how things work.

If there is no need for the bill to pass the senate then there is no 'veto' power.

The only veto in oz politics is the queens rep, the GG who can say no to any bills.

 

[Perp]

That's a poor understanding of how things work.

If there is no need for the bill to pass the senate then there is no 'veto' power.

The only veto in oz politics is the queens rep, the GG who can say no to any bills.

It may not be called a "veto", but I don't think you're in a position to point fingers at Beanie Girl's "poor understanding"; I think she's correct in substance and you're... not so much.

Delegated legislation - regulations, secondary legislation, etc. - is extensively used, whereby the power to make specific provisions with regards to implementation of an Act is delegated to a non-Parliamentary person or body, perhaps the Minister or the Executive (Cabinet plus the GG). This obviously gives the ruling party tremendous power to influence important details of implementing policy - such as the amounts specified for Medicare rebates.

As a check on such power, the Parliament has two ways of redressing what it sees as unreasonable pieces of delegated legislation, which are outlined here on the Australian Parliament House website.

So in summary, yes, the Government can unilaterally change the amounts designated for the Medicare levies.

But Parliament can review this change and disallow it.

 

[Intrinsic_Value]

Short answer, no.
They're way way way below in my list to claw back revenue and grow the economy, if they're there at all,
Maybe I'll have a think about the corporate/institutional property owners of residential, commercial and industrial now that you've brought it up
but mom and dad or young people resi investors - no

As I've said before the absolute dollar value of the debt/deficit is not important
it's the ratio to GDP that's the key
If you're growing the economy, the debt pretty much takes care of itself

.

So you think maybe a corporate entity should, but mum and dad investors shouldn't. What about if mum and dad investors use a company or a trust?

As to the absolute dollar value of debt yes its the ratio to GDP that's important.

But with government deficits increasing, our low ratio of debt will surely increase quickly. So surely its not a low debt to GDP now that's the issue, but the risk of a rapidly increasing future debt to GDP that is the issue.

So given budget deficits and given that these deficits are getting worse, then what surely we need to massively increase taxation revenue to pay for the schemes that you wish to be implemented/maintained.

 

[Intrinsic_Value]

Then we have to look into some way to have royalties or taxes from the mining companies so we can create a sovereign wealth fund much like Norway has, who use only a percentage of the interest generated from their 750 billion dollar wealth fund to fund social, health, education and welfare programs each financial year. IF we ever get a mining boom again.

Then there are others like the 10 billion given to the Reserve Bank that was neither asked for nor needed. Then there's 30-40 billion dollars recurring each year of superannuation tax concessions given as largesse by Howard during the mining boom.

Got to run now, driving to Croydon.

But I thought state governments already impose reasonably high royalties on mining companies.
And what about the fact that commodity prices are now dropping like flies.
Iron ore is now barely profitable to extract. Going by the recent share price drops of the junior iron ore minors, people think there is a real chance that they will go bankrupt.

Oil prices have dropped by 50%.


Superannuation concessions based on your number is a large figure. $40 billion would bring in a lot of money.

So do you advocate removing all superannuation tax concessions to finance increased government expenditure.

 

[Intrinsic_Value]

Beanie Girl do you think GST should be widened to include GST on food/health and education?

Also what about the $1000 GST tax free threshold on purchasing from overseas. Do you think this should be eliminated?

This would also bring in a lot of extra revenue.

 

[onetwothreefour]

So you live in the city do you?

Without overseas doctors the bush would have none. And I reckon they do a fine job. Bloody silly thing to say really!


See ya's.

In the city, we get the overseas dr practice at night medical centre and they are awful. You don't get to sit in the chair before signing the Medicare form and leave the room. It's like a factory process. They spend more time typing than see the patient.

In some countries, newly graduated medical dr have to practice in rural areas for 5 years. I don't know if Australia has similar rule.

If there are better care coming from all dr then there will be less visit to the dr. If you have a very sick baby (couldn't breath properly)and be told to wait for another 2 days to see improvements to see the same dr and then at night you watch your baby getting worse, and end up in emergency with 10 dr and nurses hovering over him..how would you feel?

Most dr like to follow a protocol..like not prescribing antibiotics straight away etc, but as parents your instinct most of the time right. And we end up with a very sick child 5 days later needing antibiotic. That's 2 visit and 10 days off school.