OECD report says australian private schools offer no accademic advantage

[lizzie]

I read an article a few weeks ago (Sydney moaning Herald) that although kids who have attended a private school were more likely to have completed a degree, there were no discernable difference between the cohorts on career progression once they have entered the workforce.

Yes - but what would be the statistics on the percentage of kids that go on with the "career progression" between the two types of schools.

Using the example of "degrees", one would assume this article is about degree orientated careers - usually (but not always) higher paid employment ... so ... if more private school kids are completing work orientated degrees - as a percentage - the logic is that more private school kids enter higher paid work than public school kids - as a percentage.

Sure - once in the workforce - there is no progression difference on given career paths between the two ... but what is the percentage different of private school/public school kids initially in those higher career paths.

Did that make sense?

 

[allsuccess]

the other half of me says , if your teachers are crap, support systems are crap, facilites are crap, systems are crap, class mates are egging you on daily to share a joint, at sometime its going to affect any human being

I think it will. And most importantly, if you can provide better options, then why not. To me, it's silly to let the kids learn it the hard way how tough life is. In their young age, what will be the cool thing to do, share a joint or go to the library and do that hard maths question.

 

[depreciator]

the other half of me says , if your teachers are crap, support systems are crap, facilites are crap, systems are crap...

Yep.

I know teachers in ordinary public schools who wouldn't get a job in a private school. They're just not good enough. But even the good ones spend a lot of their time on crowd control and dealing with kids whose parents have surrendered all responsibility for behaviour to the school. The teachers in know in private schools tend to spend a lot of time teaching. Pretty novel idea, huh.

 

[cimbom]

I also know someone who just purchased a 1 bedder and used that as their mailing address.

Surely private school would've been cheaper?

 

[serendip]

I did think that a lot of posters on a forum like this would admit that they were using private school to buy academic advantage, and so might be interested that the data shows this isn't the case. I also thought that being a forum full of analytical, investor types, that they/you lot (I don't have an IP - yet) would be interested in crunching the numbers.

I think the problem with this statement is that it's a sweeping one. If you look at ALL public schools and ALL private schools there may well be no advantage, after you account for socio-economic factors etc. I'm certainly not looking at just any private school. I've rejected many of them around here for various reasons - some religious, some class sizes etc. The school I'm currently looking at does achieve significantly above average academic results. It is the highest ranked school academically in the region, higher than the local selective school. Part of that may be attributed to the socio economic factors but does it really matter why? There are factors other than academic results which are influencing my decision.

 

[MTR]

What do you think with your parent hat on?
What do you think with your teacher hat on?
What do you think with your investor hat on?

Just like choosing a high yielding, high CG, under market value IP.

That is silly, now we compare an IP performance to public/private school performance.

I need now to be educated on investment strategies

 

[Scott No Mates]

I also know someone who just purchased a 1 bedder and used that as their mailing address.

Would have been cheaper sending them to a private school than buying a unit with no tax deductions.

 

[MTR]

I think the problem with this statement is that it's a sweeping one. If you look at ALL public schools and ALL private schools there may well be no advantage, after you account for socio-economic factors etc. I'm certainly not looking at just any private school. I've rejected many of them around here for various reasons - some religious, some class sizes etc. The school I'm currently looking at does achieve significantly above average academic results. It is the highest ranked school academically in the region, higher than the local selective school. Part of that may be attributed to the socio economic factors but does it really matter why? There are factors other than academic results which are influencing my decision.

One thing that has not been included is your child, what about her/his academic results today??

Its not an even playing field, if you think a private school will make your child an academic giant you will be bitterly disappointed. If they are gifted academically then from my experience they will have above average results wherever they go, private/public.

 

[MTR]

Would have been cheaper sending them to a private school than buying a unit with no tax deductions.

Can not say that because when it was purchased it was a rising market and they still have this property which has outperformed because its in a trendy inner city location, experienced at least 2 boom cycles.

However, I get your point, pick the wrong area and you are stuffed

 

[depreciator]

I've rejected many of them around here for various reasons - some religious, some class sizes etc. The school I'm currently looking at does achieve significantly above average academic results.

I don't have any idea what the academic results are at the school (IGS at Broadway) my daughter goes to. How silly is that. I liked it the first time I walked into it. The kids said hello and the uniform policy was obviously pretty relaxed. (That's a bit like buying an IP because the people who live in the building seem pretty reasonable.) They have a great orchestra and music department. I also like the fact that because of where it is, the parent base is pretty left wing, so I knew there wouldn't be any awkward discussions.
We are two years into it now, and I like the fact that I get emails from teachers when they reckon Mimi needs to lift her game, or if there are things they reckon she might not have told us. Mimi isn't as fond of that aspect of the school.

 

[greedy2000]

I love how people automatically equate wealth with being better people.

"I'll put my kid in a private school because I want them to hang around with a better group of kids".

Wealth doesn't = Better Human Beings

The examples you set will have a big influence on your kids and how they grow up. When they become teenagers you'll lose that influence, but hopefully you will have laid the ground work for them to make the right choices.

As long as the school has good teachers and is adequately resourced, I don't care where I send my daughter.

 

[MTR]

Yep.

I know teachers in ordinary public schools who wouldn't get a job in a private school. They're just not good enough. But even the good ones spend a lot of their time on crowd control and dealing with kids whose parents have surrendered all responsibility for behaviour to the school. The teachers in know in private schools tend to spend a lot of time teaching. Pretty novel idea, huh.

Seeing we are talking private vs public, and I am not arguing which is best, I don't care.

Here is a dirty little secret, about a prestigious boys school.

One of the elite boys schools in Perth actually, I wont mention the name because it was not disclosed in the media. However, the teacher in question was dismissed/stood down on child abuse charges. This happened last year I think, charges this year.

For years, teachers at this elite private school reported to the head master of their concerns and they were ignored for years.

My point is, do not think that just because its an elite private school, bad things don't happen, and they have the best of the best teachers etc.

So, how could have happened in a private/elite school where parents are paying huge money each year.

MTR

 

[MTR]

I love how people automatically equate wealth with being better people.

"I'll put my kid in a private school because I want them to hang around with a better group of kids".

Wealth doesn't = Better Human Beings

The examples you set will have a big influence on your kids and how they grow up. When they become teenagers you'll lose that influence, but hopefully you will have laid the ground work for them to make the right choices.

As long as the school has good teachers and is adequately resourced, I don't care where I send my daughter.

Greedy
Kudos to you.

Because we are humans and we are not perfect and we aspire to be wealthy and that = success, and this is how we want to be viewed, it strokes our ego

Cheers
MTR

 

[serendip]

One thing that has not been included is your child, what about her/his academic results today??

Its not an even playing field, if you think a private school will make your child an academic giant you will be bitterly disappointed. If they are gifted academically then from my experience they will have above average results wherever they go, private/public.

He's 3 He's showing signs of being a smart kid but who knows how that will pan out over the next few years, he'll start school in '16.

Someone said to me once that her job as a mother was to leave as many options open to her kids for as long as possible. That has really stuck with me.

I'm not concerned about him being an academic giant. Another reason I'm interested in the school is they have music & language programs much earlier than most public schools. At the moment he really loves music, I feel he has more of an affinity to it than most kids so the opportunity to pursue that, if his interest remains, is another consideration.

I'm concerned about giving him opportunity. I'm not convinced private school from kinder will be the way to go for a number of reasons, but at this point I'm considering all the options. There's also a performing arts school, so that might be another option for him. As might going to the local public school so his mates are down the road.

Despite all of that, the point of my previous post was that the article was full of generalisations and that school choice shouldn't be based on broad generalisations.

 

[Scott No Mates]

I don't have any idea what the academic results are at the school (IGS at Broadway) my daughter goes to. How silly is that.

That's exactly the reason that Jools introduced the My schools website. How well does my school rank oops how disadvantaged are the kids at my school?

An example from my growing years. I lived in a very odd street (basic inner west of old, not out as far as druggies paradise of Croydon). Of the neighbours either side and a few, all ran their own businesses. Their kids mostly attended private schools. All completed the HSC. Of the 20 or so kids possibly only 5-6 attended uni.

30 years on, the ones who didn't attend uni are mostly working in family business but so are many of the others. Their kids attend private schools.

Doesn't say anything one way or the other.

 

[depreciator]

My point is, do not think that just because its an elite private school, bad things don't happen, and they have the best of the best teachers etc.

Yep, all schools have their fair share of this. (Well, I guess the Catholic schools have probably had more than their fair share.)

If I had a great, local state school, my kid would be there.

 

[MTR]

Yep, all schools have their fair share of this. (Well, I guess the Catholic schools have probably had more than their fair share.)

If I had a great, local state school, my kid would be there.

I did, I sent daughter 2 to public school

daughter 1 to private/elite school - she got bullied, cos she was academically not up there, teacher called her a "low achiever", what do you think of that??

As I said they both are great well rounds kids.

 

[depreciator]

daughter 1 to private/elite school - she got bullied, cos she was academically not up there, teacher called her a "low achiever", what do you think of that??

Clearly it is awful. But it is a reflection of that teacher and not the school (or the system).

 

[MTR]

Clearly it is awful. But it is a reflection of that teacher and not the school (or the system).

Absolutely agree with you.

Not all teachers are great teachers, I have had seen shockers in public as well, its just a job they are over it, would rather be home, or doing something else..... then do everyone a favour find another job, give the kids half a chance.

 

[depreciator]

At least it's easier for a private school to move on a problem teacher.