Poll: What's your annual household income from your day job only?
- Thread starter The_Bludger
- Start date
I went back to uni for fun, and the uni paid me to front up
Cheers,
The Y-man
Please explain?? Are you a lecturer?
Tools
Very smart, but never did my work
Sounds a bit like me; Ended up getting into "Maths C" (the hardest one), but then got Cs and Ds. I completely failed English too, despite being fairly good at it in the real world, simply because I never submitted anything.
No, my idea of fun at uni will be sitting in on interesting lectures (which is sometimes like watching a good documentary), but then not doing the assignments or exams.
Maybe you're giving more credit to yourself than you deserve.
University takes 3-4 years. Those few years will end up giving you an edge in the workforce, I'm surprised you have a long term approach to property investing, but your views on education/salary is somehow warped (short term thinking). I'm guessing you've never had a real job or know how the job market works. Unless you end up getting rich off your startup or business venture, you'll be stuck in low-average wage jobs, while your educated friends will end up surpassing your salary 3-4 years into their jobs. This is a fact based on millions employed in Australia. I guess you could also win the lotto or work at the mines.Even if that is true, what does that tell us about future wealth? Nothing. Salary by itself has no direct relationship with wealth. Many forum members got to great wealth even though they are / were on low salaries. I'd argue people on higher salaries are LESS likely to invest actively, because the skew the objectives towards salary and career, instead of wealth. Some people don't do well in the traditional education system. If the objective was PAYG / salary only, then more education is better. But the objective is wealth.
Alex
Maybe you're giving more credit to yourself than you deserve.
And after having no income for those 3-4 years you come out saddled with a nice HECS debt that will follow you around for ages.
Those few years will end up giving you an edge in the workforce,
An edge, but not a guaranteed increase in salary. I know many University educated people earning $40-50k with no likelihood of an increase in salary.
I'm surprised you have a long term approach to property investing, but your views on education/salary is somehow warped (short term thinking).
I am sure she has put a lot of thought into it.
I'm guessing you've never had a real job or know how the job market works. Working part-time since the age of 8, I am sure she knows EXACTLY how the market works.
Alex, you are 100% correct.
Lil got her views on education not only from her parents, but also in the real-life scenario's played out by those around us. A couple of cases in point.
1) Young girl, played up at school, family thought she was not the brightest, moved out of home at 19, worked full time for many years in dead end jobs (call centres, etc). Went to Uni as a mature aged student. Still there, graduating this year. She needed time to work and get life experience to understand what she really wanted out of life. Also by not going straight from school, she was eligible to receive Youth Allowance, that she would otherwise not have received.
2) Mature man, left school at the end of year 10, did a trade. Worked that trade for many years, but found that he didn't like it. Worked for himself in some other fields and enjoyed it, but was not able to make good money out of it. After having an accident and being put on light duties, a temp role came up elewhere in an office, so his boss got him to fill in, knowing that his business experience would see him through. Loved the work, was offered the job at a much higher salary than previously, so went to Uni and did a Business Degree part-time, to make sure that he could continue on the new career path. Again, he did not know this, straight from school.
3) Young boy, worked part-time at KFC from age 14. Left school at end of year 10 to work full-time at KFC. Everyone thought he had rocks in his head. He went through the management training that KFC does and did every bit of available training that was available to him. At the ripe old age of 22 (I think, from memory) he left KFC to work in Management at Aldi on $80k, beating many Uni candidates for the role. Aldi liked that not only had his years at KFC been spent learning he had real hands-on experience in a very fast paced environment. This was a few years ago now, I believe he is earning more that this today.
4) Young boy, goes to Uni to study, while his parents pay his way. It is hard on them, they have 4 kids and their son does not qualify for Youth Allowance. After 12 months living away from home, he decides that he really does not want to do it anymore and comes back home. Parents are still paying his way and he has no job, and from what I've seen isn't really trying.
5) Young girl, goes to Uni, has no idea what she wants to do, so starts an Arts Degree, then changes course. Spends 6 years studying, but still has no idea what she wants to be when she grows up (because she hasn't had to grow up yet despite her age). She has a huge HECS dept that continues to grow each year. Apparently she just doesn't like anything that she tries. Life is an endless mindless drudge with part-time work/study, and no end in sight.
So, if Lil wants to work, straight from school, I give her my whole hearted support. She knows it's hard work, but she is conditioned for that. She does understand that anything worthwhile in life takes commitment and effort. If she chooses to go to Uni as a mature student, she will get credit for life experience (depending on the course and what life has thrown her way). But most of all, she will know what she wants and have the maturity to give it 100% unlike many who just look at Uni as an extention to school. Or.......who knows, she might just become the most successful Real Estate Agent in Victoria and surpass in income many of her University educated friends.
Anything is possible.Yep, it's my part time gig
I'm glad I don't have to write/sit the papers I set.... but then again I do have to mark them....
Cheers,
The Y-man
And how would you know? You don't.
A "piece of paper" is very different to an education.
Now would'nt you want to stack the odds in your favour by having a sound technical (and legal) background combined with a high degree of analytical capability that can be learned alot faster by specific study instead of spending 20 yrs in the workplace to get there?Or.......who knows, she might just become the most successful Real Estate Agent in Victoria and surpass in income many of her University educated friends.
And lets not forget a high profenciency in using the latest technology.
There's enough statistics out there that clearly show that graduates end up better.
Of course you could win lotto too...
Good luck though
Exactly right PB. Which is why I'd be happy to attend uni but not sit exams.
However, many jobs require that piece of paper. What I learned in 3 years of uni I could have learned in 3-6 months on the job. But I wouldn't have gotten the job if I didn't have the degree. The system is what it is.
I'm certainly not against going to uni. I did it, used the piece of paper effectively and my salary jumped quickly. I wouldn't have what I have if I didn't have the salary. I think a high paying job is a great fallback, but I don't expect it to make me rich.
Alex
I'm certainly not against going to uni. I did it, used the piece of paper effectively and my salary jumped quickly. I wouldn't have what I have if I didn't have the salary. I think a high paying job is a great fallback, but I don't expect it to make me rich.
Alex
I got selected for all the hardest classes, i actually knocked back maths advanced in year 9 because i couldn't be bothered doing the work. Even though i didn't do the work i got fairly good marks.
Maybe you're giving more credit to yourself than you deserve.
Not for the course i wanted to do. I also don't give myself more credit. I never said i was the smartest person, nor that i'm right and everyone else is wrong. Just for the record i received a 4 year scholarship to my high school in year 6, i also won Dux of the school in year 7, represented my school in various academic competitions and sporting competitions, neither my mother or i have mentioned this before because it's never been relevant.
Those few years will end up giving you an edge in the workforce, I'm surprised you have a long term approach to property investing, but your views on education/salary is somehow warped (short term thinking). I'm guessing you've never had a real job or know how the job market works.
How can it give you an edge in the workforce if you're not working or only working part time?
I've been working part time since i was 8, had my first full time job at 16, which i later quit and went back to school. I've also moved to another state without my family at 18 and working full time paying my own way. I'm pretty sure that i have a "real job".
It's not short term thinking at all. I've just stated that at this point in time i have no interest in Uni nor do i believe i need it. If anything it's a long term plan, i don't know where i'll be in 5 years time, i could easily still be in real estate or i might decide i want to be an accountant, therefore i would be going to uni.
Unless you end up getting rich off your startup or business venture, you'll be stuck in low-average wage jobs, while your educated friends will end up surpassing your salary 3-4 years into their jobs. This is a fact based on millions employed in Australia. I guess you could also win the lotto or work at the mines.
At present i'm earning well over my "educated" friends. Also 3-4 years into their jobs i would've been in mine for 8. If i wasn't earning enough, or wasn't where i wanted to be, trust me i'd already be out of it. Also there are many many people who do their uni degrees and come out earning $20k their first year and have to spend another 5 years doing their job to even get to $60-$70k, whereas by this time i'll be well on my way to retirement.
I will not be caught in a low earning job with no future prospects to earn more. I believe i can do this without Uni. That's just my opinion.
That is completely correct Alex. Thankyou for summing it all up.
Ahh, but neither I, nor Lil have said that the door is closed on furthering her education. It just isn't relevant at this point in time. Someday, she may wish to, or not, but that is her choice.
Just wondering, do you have to keep dissing university so much?
You might want to check out the average uni graduate salaries here:
http://www.progradmelbourne.com.au/...-is-the-average-graduate-salary-in-australia/
Someone with a 3 year degree could be making 100k+ in a non-sales, non-commission role 3-4 years after graduating. I was one of them. On the other hand, some people who don't do uni end up with zero job prospects.
Choose not to do uni because you think you can do better, by all means. But the fact is that uni is a great way of increasing your job and salary prospects.
Alex
As I recall, she hasn't dissed Uni at all. She has just merely stated that at this point in time, it is not something that she is interested in doing. Who knows what the future holds.
In saying this, though, Uni is NOT a one size fits all type of thing. It is not for everyone, and many would be better off not bothering or waiting a few years until they get some life experience.
I think you need to go back to school and learn about statistics if you for one minute believe holding a degree has no relationship with wealth. By holding a degree, and having good investment knowledge, you're going to be earning much more on average than a high school drop out, for most people.
Some people here mock education, for example LilStaker goes on about how she can't stand reading books, yet learning property/investments requires countless hours of book reading, forum readings, seeking information that the general public won't bother to read. This is stuff you end up doing in university, gaining knowledge.... except you get a paper at the end that is recognized throughout the world.
I'm surprised how stu*id people can be sometimes, for example, most here know the ins-outs of property investing BECAUSE they read, read, read. Yet, they will claim university offers no benefits, when its purpose is again, to attain knowledge and be an expert at a certain field. Which normally entitles you to a higher salary than a non-degree counterpart. Furthermore, an educated person is more likely to pickup a book and read about something else than a high school dropout, simply because they've been conditioned to read dozens and dozens of books in university. Now, it might not be about property investing, or shares investing, however you have to realize wealth attainment is not everyone's passion. For some, being the ultimate photographer, or learning a new skill is more important in life.
With that statement, it seems someone here definitely hasn't been to university. You realize you only pay HECS debt when you earn a salary. 10% is taken out from your tax return, hardly an issue. Most people clear their HECS debts within 2-3 years after a job.
And please Staker, when using examples, try to refer to general population statistics. I always hear people talking about events going around "their" lives. Who knows, you probably live in a part of town where unemployment is high or you just know lots of bums. As I said, take statistics from a large pools provided by the government/research bodies, not "selective" pools which you have done.
A degree has a relationship with earnings, yes. But earnings is not a good indicator or wealth. Just because you have a high salary doesn't mean you're necessarily wealthy, and vice versa. Nor is a degree any indication of investing knowledge. They certainly don't teach it at uni. Combining a degree (which generally leads to higher earnings) and investing knowledge is great, but having a degree doesn't mean you have investing knowledge.
I'm a huge reader, so I personally couldn't live without books. However, just because you read doesn't mean you'll be successful, and vice versa.
Nor do I mock education. I've used it to great advantage. However, I recognise the degree for what it is: an indication to an employer that you will be a more valuable employee than someone who hasn't got the piece of paper. What does that tell us about the person's investing knowledge or how they will use the earnings? Not a lot.
Reading is ONE way of gaining knowledge. It's not the only way.
Alex
Do you mean to be so insulting. Most of the people that I regularly associate with are on six figure incomes, thankyou very much. Each of the people in the example come from well-to-do families and none of them could be remotely considered 'bums', except for the young boy in example 4), however his attitude is not a product of his upbringing (both his parents are hardworking) or his surroundings. His attitude of just wanting to do nothing started during his time away from home while at Uni.
These people are a cross section where Uni has worked for some, but not for others. For those that got a good result, they first went into the "real" world and got some life experience to help them in making an educated decision on what they wanted to do. This is not a bad thing.
A little inconsistency here?
BTW guys I'm really not trying to pick on you. Just trying to point out that "hard work" usually means doing something you don't want to do. If you want to do it, it's easy right?
Given the subject matter of this forum, let's say someone was still in school and asked me what they should do to become as successful a property investor as possible. I would advise them:
- Select the uni degree that gives you the highest take home pay as soon as possible in the form of a nice regular paycheque from a big corporation as desired by the banks. Oil and gas engineering, law or medicine spring to mind. Doing arts is a waste of time for this purpose.
- Do the hardest subjects so you can get access to and get through your degree.
- As your salary grows, leverage up into solid property investments.
- Keep leveraging.
It's a proven formula, very low risk and very hard work - if you can deal with the delayed gratification at this age you are truly setup for life.
Of course you could just follow your heart and do what you love and you may be incredibly successful a la Bill Gates et al. But IME this road has far more shattered dreams than success stories... and keep in mind there is plenty of time for all that anyway after you have become "independently wealthy".
The fact that a lot of high salaried people don't invest and only have very modest net wealth is no indication of the investing power of a high salary! Just don't make their mistake - which is the easy bit!
