Private school fees or not??

[Simon]

Have you considered getting him to sit the scholarship test for the private schools. I applied for it as an aside to the selective entry exam for my daughter and she ended up with the choice of both which was unexpected.

Is not expensive and your son might benefit from some coaching towards test techniques, just a few sessions helps their confidence enormously - as much as I am against the coaching for selective schools I think that unless you bite the bullet and get it then your child is not on a level playing field.

Newcastle is still very much anglo-saxon community (esp in comparison with Sydney) and coaching is yet to become the norm up here - we have a selective school and it not dominated by the families who are prepared to have their children coached extensively to increase chances of selection.

 

[marg4000]

Actually, I hadn't realized how many selective government schools there are in Sydney, many of them single sex.

Brisbane has only one that I know of, and it is co-ed.

This would only seem possible if Fed and State governments are allocating more funds towards Sydney govt schools per capita....and comprehensive schools (all non selective schools) have funding diverted away from them to fund the higher level of services offered by selectives..

Education is mostly State funded, so the decision to fund selective schools will be a NSW one.

There are no fully selective state schools in Brisbane.

All state schools have to accept students who live in their designated local catchment area.
Marg

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Education is mostly State funded, so the decision to fund selective schools will be a NSW one.

There are no fully selective state schools in Brisbane.

All state schools have to accept students who live in their designated local catchment area.
Marg

Hi Marg, over 50% of state revenue is distributed from Fed govt revenues (gst, income tax etc).

Click for Qld State govt revenues and expenditure. The Feds have favored NSW and Vic in the redistribution of taxes for years.

Makes me wonder how the selective school model fits with Labor's left ideology, especially the fully selective schools.

 

[Simon]

All state schools have to accept students who live in their designated local catchment area.
Marg

Except the selective schools.

My local primary is very highly regarded. People buy into the zone just to get their kids in and houses are advertised with this fact as a major selling point.

I even have had people knocking at my door asking to use my address as their home address so they could apply to get into it automatically.

I wonder if someone did use my address to apply, without me knowing, and had all mail in their name redirected - would I ever find out?

 

[Simon]

Hi Marg, over 50% of state revenue is distributed from Fed govt revenues (gst, income tax etc).

Click for Qld State govt revenues and expenditure. The Feds have favored NSW and Vic in the redistribution of taxes for years.

Makes me wonder how the selective school model fits with Labor's left ideology, especially the fully selective schools.

Even if they don't - the Sydney ones have been here an awfully long time and I don't think that system would be easily undone.

I remember being offered a place in an "Opportunity School" in the early 70's and I know my Uncles went to selective schools. My family moved to Perth so I had to make do with a regular state school - I wonder how my life was affected

 

[wylie]

I even have had people knocking at my door asking to use my address as their home address so they could apply to get into it automatically.

I wonder if someone did use my address to apply, without me knowing, and had all mail in their name redirected - would I ever find out?

I know that for Brisbane State High School they no longer have a sibling policy like when I went there. Friends with one child there moved to West End in order to get the younger one in.

It was not enough to give any old address..... they needed a lease, and utility bills in their name. I would assume other schools would need similar proof, otherwise everyone would door knock to find a willing local, or just pick any address and have their mail redirected .

 

[weg]

It was not enough to give any old address..... they needed a lease, and utility bills in their name. I would assume other schools would need similar proof, otherwise everyone would door knock to find a willing local, or just pick any address and have their mail redirected .

They ask for rates notices or utility bills here too. My brother who had yet to build his home in a particular school zone had to produce proof that he owned the land and was able to move his eldest there the year before building.

We've also been asked to allow our address to be used for the public primary school. No such request for the public high school in the other direction though - it's past ongoing racial gang wars involving metal bars have not been forgotten .

 

[RPI]

I know that for Brisbane State High School they no longer have a sibling policy like when I went there. Friends with one child there moved to West End in order to get the younger one in.

It was not enough to give any old address..... they needed a lease, and utility bills in their name. I would assume other schools would need similar proof, otherwise everyone would door knock to find a willing local, or just pick any address and have their mail redirected .

You also have to sign a stat dec regarding your primary residence.

 

[sue78]

the reason why my dad sent us to Oz when we were lil was mainly because I really had no chance in malaysia...pretty dumb and lazy and I was 8y.o!

In Asia, it's the norm to have tuition every single day and sometimes weekends. For every single subject and starting at well grade 1.

Ifs elective school is the best there is, then asian parents will spend whatever it takes to get there child in..if it means moving to that suburb or costly tuition fees.

My nieces are I think in grade 10 and attend public chinese school in Malaysia...really really smart, averaging top 1% in their class....it's a big deal when majority of scores are like between 95% and 100% and u get the 99.5% 99.6% etc In malaysia, it's common knowledge that the chinese schools are more difficult than the malay schools...mainly because the kids are a lot more smarter which makes it a lot more competitive. Getting 80% may sound good but not when it's bottom of the class!

I think there more important things than just academics. It's ridiculous. I know a lot of very rich asian families but I try not to associate with them too much.

 

[sue78]

Oh really? Well, let me tell you about my experience at a private school. I was bullied, not by one or two people, but a whole range of kids. Even some of the teachers. Yes, that's right - teachers. My Year 7 home room teacher (who also happened to be my science teacher) told my brother (who was in Year 5 at the time) that I was 'a d.ckhead'. That is absolutely 100% truth right there. He also accused me of cheating on a test once in front of the entire class because I got a perfect score.

Yes we have all been bullied..though different extent but it's a good point to make. Bullying is rife in both public and private. In private schools, they are usually more willing to expel a student causing trouble rather than losing a handful of fee paying students that has done nothing wrong.

But it's also important to take into account your child's feelings when they are in high school. If my kids really wanted to change to a public school, I would definitely take their feelings and reasons into account. It may be a good move, it may not be...but if it's not then at least they learn from their mistake.

 

[RPI]

How was it unprovoked sh.t stirring Aaron? The guy's spelling is atrocious. Actually, a disappointingly high number of posters on here have atrocious spelling. Then the dude proceeds to defend his atrocious spelling. I'd be fair dinkum flat out embarrassed if my spelling skills were that atrocious.

Aaron, I'd like to ask you something, if you think I'm being unreasonable. You got a bunch of little rugrats, right? I imagine you'd expect that level of spelling from your oldest, who is what, around 5 years old? But ask yourself this - once they get to say, 10 years old, would you not be worried if their spelling was still that poor?

I know when I was ten, I would have run rings around this guy and he's (supposedly) an adult. Even back then I would have been flat out embarrassed to spell that poorly, but then I've always taken great pride in my comprehension of the english language.

I think spelling is about the context a lot of the time, we are typing on this forum not writing after all. I have been attacked by a troll on here previously (not you Mark) regarding my spelling. Yet I have written over a dozen textbooks and been published in a peer reviewed journal and am currently writing an arctile for another professional journal. On most given weeks I would type tens of thousands of words on the pc. When I respond I here I normally do so at light speed, I have 2 other screens open on my pc at the same time with multiple windows open in each (how people survive with less than 2 screens I',m not sure, I'm thinking 4 would be really handy right now) hey notice the long sentences the lack of punctuation and thae failure to correct the mistakes. Hardly makes the post unreadable though does it.

When writing on a forum it is a completely different headspace for me, it is only a step up from texting and when you complete a lot of formal writing it is nice not having to worry about it in a relaxed forum. I kind of compare it to the difference between chatting with your mates at the pub and if you were giving a lecture to an industry group or adressing the judge in court. Different contexts different styles and cant fathom why some people find it so offensive.

Now back to the topic at hand. I used to be a high school teacher. I would of sent my kids to a private school prior to teaching in one. Now after having taught in several I:
-would not send my boys to an all boys school. cool to be good at sport not so cool to top the class many boys dumb it down around the other boys so they dont stand out
-would send my daughter to an all girls school. academic competitiveness seems better there.
-would send mine to a coed school privae school
-one problem for me is if it is a religous school that excludes me straight away. So much wasted time in RE that, especially in senior could be better spent on real subjects
-am going to send mine to either Cavendish Rd State High School or Brisbane State High School. These schools stand equal with, if not exceed the top brisbane private schools. Probably Brisbane State High and If I have to buy in a house near southbank and use it as a crashpad walk to city so be it.

I would never send my kids to the local public school if it was a bad one. The kids at Cav rd High would do more work in a lesson then the ones at woodridge do in a week. And you can't even compare the academic level of the work, worlds apart. Saying that if the kid is really bright then they can do well anyway. I've taught at both.

RPI

[/LIST]

 

[marg4000]

Except the selective schools.

My local primary is very highly regarded. People buy into the zone just to get their kids in and houses are advertised with this fact as a major selling point.
?

Simon, there are no completely selective schools in Queensland. In Queensland all state schools must accept students from the designated catchment area. As you say, this can be a very desirable selling point.

I am aware things are different in NSW.
Marg

 

[WinstonWolfe]

-am going to send mine to either Cavendish Rd State High School or Brisbane State High School. These schools stand equal with, if not exceed the top brisbane private schools. Probably Brisbane State High

- School Ranking based on % of Yr 12 with OP between 1 and 15

BSHS and Cavendish Road
Yr, Rank, %; Rank, %
2007 : 62, 80% ; 251, 61%
2008 : 48, 85% : 276, 62%


- 18 private schools beat BSHS

- State Schools that beat Cavendish:
BSHS
Kelvin Grove
Kenmore
Mansfield
Kedron
Gap
Indooroopilly
Holland Park
Craigslea State High School
Aspley State High School
Balmoral State High School
Centenary State High School
Albany Creek State High School
Wavell State High School
Pine Rivers State High School
Cleveland District State High School
Ferny Grove State High School
Hendra Secondary College
Earnshaw State College
Sandgate District State High School
Victoria Point State High School
MacGregor State High School
Runcorn State High School
Alexandra Hills State High School
Shailer Park State High School
Mount Gravatt State High School

 

[RPI]

- School Ranking based on % of Yr 12 with OP between 1 and 15

BSHS and Cavendish Road
Yr, Rank, %; Rank, %
2007 : 62, 80% ; 251, 61%
2008 : 48, 85% : 276, 62%


- 18 private schools beat BSHS

- State Schools that beat Cavendish:
BSHS
Kelvin Grove
Kenmore
Mansfield
Kedron
Gap
Indooroopilly
Holland Park
Craigslea State High School
Aspley State High School
Balmoral State High School
Centenary State High School
Albany Creek State High School
Wavell State High School
Pine Rivers State High School
Cleveland District State High School
Ferny Grove State High School
Hendra Secondary College
Earnshaw State College
Sandgate District State High School
Victoria Point State High School
MacGregor State High School
Runcorn State High School
Alexandra Hills State High School
Shailer Park State High School
Mount Gravatt State High School

Comparing on OP alone doesn't work, especially in a big school that can caterto a diverse range. Balmoral high, as per your list looks like it might be ok, yet the behaviour is appauling and it has a really bad reputation.

Cav rd have a big vocational education program partnered with southbank tafe. Also their sports excellence programs may not attract the brightest tools inthe shed. Having said that Cav Rd also has an academy of science where the senior students are taking Uni subjects through Griffith uni.

 

[Simon]

http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/selective-students-failing-at-uni-20100916-15eqr.html

Seems topical at the moment though I don't really get the point of it.

The selective kids still outperform regular high school kids though the article suggests they are failing subjects?

Maybe they aren't used to working on their own instead of being spoon fed knowledge to pass exams? This goes for all high schools from what I hear these days...

 

[depreciator]

This issue has been get a bit of press lately. Alot of kids who get coached to get into a selective school then get coached while they are at that school - after hours, holidays etc. When they go to uni, the coaching stops and they have to be self directed. So those kids have a greater chance of falling in a heap than kids who weren't coached.
The subject choice bit was interesting. Kids who do really well in the HSC (or equivalent) often feel duty bound to do law or medecine. Some hate it and feel trapped. I have a neighbour who teaches at a selective boys school and when he comes across ex students a few years out of school, this story is pretty common.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Some interesting snippets from newspaper articles:

Productivity Commission 2007-08 figures
total government funding to state school students is $12,639 a head
non-government schools receive only $6606 a student.

every student who attends a non-government school saves the taxpayer about $6000.

government school funding has increased between 2003-04 and 2007-08 by 1.6 per cent in real terms each year
non-government school funding has decreased by 0.1 per cent a year.

The Greens policy document calls to:

• end the current non-government school funding arrangements by the end of 2010;
• end funding of the ‘very wealthiest private schools’;
• return the total level of funding for all non-government schools to the 2003-04 levels which would slash current funding by $1000 per student; and,
• restrict the development of ‘new private schools’.

Thousands of Australian families embrace school choice with Australian Bureau of Statistics figures showing just over 30 per cent of students across Australia attending non-government schools – the figure rises to more than 40 per cent at years 11 and 12 in the ACT, Victoria and NSW. And between 1998 and 2008, government school enrolments grew by only 1.1 per cent, while the figure for the non-government school sector is 21.9 per cent.

The reality is that under the socio-economic status model, funding is means tested. Wealthy schools, measured by a sample survey of parents by a school's postcode, only receive 13.5 per cent of the average cost of educating a government school student.

 

[willair]

The subject choice bit was interesting. Kids who do really well in the HSC (or equivalent) often feel duty bound to do law or medecine. Some hate it and feel trapped. I have a neighbour who teaches at a selective boys school and when he comes across ex students a few years out of school, this story is pretty common.

We are starting to see that within the group of young people that went to school with our daughters for 12 years ,, out off the 20 or so people that our three daughters spent with at a inner brisbane private school several have changed from Law -Medecine and went into Teaching Accounting,As far as private schools go it's worth every cent that hardest part for us was getting them in in the first the, system in place can be very hard and very costly unless you know someone..willair..

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

Our local primary school has a great reputation, and our son is enrolled to start next year. Our local highschool though (where I spent 6 years) is not great, but still vastly better than the tip it was when I went there.

I've thought a lot about this with my wife over the past few years, and spoken to other parents (ranging from "I send X there because it's the best" to "what a bloody waste of money").

We've decided to send our son to whatever school provides a good learning environment with a good record for resolving issues with parents. We're not so worried about our son being top 1% of the country (he is already cluey enough to indicate his intelligence seems strong), but rather about nurturing a child to adulthood who will be mentally strong, independent, and makes and owns his decisions.

There are probably several schools that will help us achieve this. We'll figure out which one we need as he grows. FWIW, I doubt we will send him to 'top' private schools, just as he won't go to ratbag schools like I did.

 

[mary&mat]

I went to a public high for 2 years & then got into a selective school in Melb. Best thing I could've ever done.

Ambition at public school virtually nil, at selective school everyone had drive. The atmosphere is very condusive to finding something you like (drama, science, arts, sports, music etc) & doing the best you can.

As others have noted, being smart at a high school can get you into all sorts of trouble including being bullied. Not so much at selective schools where your achievements are generally embraced.

Going from a male/female environment to female only seemed to be good for us girls. I think it allowed us to develop as more rounded individuals without having to worry about the distraction of boys in school hours. We still saw them at the train station & did plays & musicals so we weren't without male company altogether. But for female learning, I would definately want my girl at an all girls school.

Having taught at a private school down here in Vic, I can confirm the students at this particular school were very much spoon fed. Selective school encouraged more uni-type research & learning.