re:- Proposing to the person I want to marry

[sue78]

And I'm thankful for that. Otherwise I would have serious problems finding a wife.
Alex

Hey that's really bad...money is somethig you can both earn together. I would rather have someone with me from the start than when I've made it big.

When I met my husband, he was 27y.o and never had a a real job in his life and no money. Doesn't mean he's a no hoper....just needed motivation and encouragement. I am not the type to flick someone off because they have no money....love is much more important than money and it can overcome most things.

 

[alexlee]

Hey that's really bad...money is somethig you can both earn together. I would rather have someone with me from the start than when I've made it big.

When I met my husband, he was 27y.o and never had a a real job in his life and no money. Doesn't mean he's a no hoper....just needed motivation and encouragement. I am not the type to flick someone off because they have no money....love is much more important than money and it can overcome most things.

Each to his/her own. We all look for different things in a partner. Love is of course essential. Money helps with a lot of other stuff. I'd already started on the investing road and was making decent money when I met my fiance at 25. I knew I was going to have money, so that wasn't on my list when looking for a partner. I didn't care what she earned, or what she would earn in the future. Personally, I have no problem with a girl liking me partly because of my money, as long as that's not the ONLY reason why she likes me.

I know most of my friends are now worrying about what they'll do when they have kids and whether one parent should stay at home, what to do about losing one income, how to 'share' money if they lose one income, how they can afford to buy a house, etc. I think they'll also have arguments about it because one side (or both sides) might resent the arrangements. I won't have that problem, at least. If she wants to work and make her own money, fine. If she doesn't, that was never a requirement anyway so I don't mind either. I don't expect her to contribute to the household finances as long as she doesn't go crazy on the shopping.

Love can overcome most things, true. But wouldn't it be easier if you didn't have to, because you had money to help you? I'm not saying that you should reject a person because they have no money: I'm just saying that money DOES help because that's one less thing you have to worry about. And in my case, it was the reverse; I didn't care whether the other person had money or not. You can't deny that money makes life easier, not in the sense of having a private jet is nice but not having to worry about food, accomodation, general expenses, etc.
Alex

 

[oc1]

Men believe they need to do it because they do need to do it. It's a competitive world out there and the guy with the appearance of having the most money wins. I was having a conversation related to this topic with a friend a few months ago and I said to him 'Money makes a man VERY attractive to women, regardless of what he looks like Physically.

I hope this doesn't come off as arrogant/very cocky, but here goes:

That comment suggests a few things. You have a belief of scarcity and only have one aspect of attraction (money - but more so what money represents). In my opinion, women are attracted to things like fame, money, and power because they are genetically and socially programmed on an unconscious level to believe that these men are more intelligent, more fun, more interesting, more able to give them the lifestyle. Rich, powerful, famous guys have the advantage at the BEGINNING from their FAMILIARITY and ASSUMED, PROJECTED positive traits. BUT IF YOU KNOW HOW TO give her the FEELINGS that she’s always wanted, she’ll treat you like you’re famous, rich, and powerful as well. Women Are FAR More Interested In The Way You Make Them FEEL Rather Than Looks, Money, Or Fame.

When a man takes a woman out to nice dinners and buys her gifts too early in the relationship, the woman will begin to think the man is trying to ‘buy’ HER.
Women see this as manipulation… and a LACK OF CONFIDENCE. Women want a man who has enough confidence in himself to know that he can please her WITHOUT having to pull out his wallet. If you spend too much money on a woman or do too many favors for her, you are subtly telling her that your pocketbook is ALL YOU HAVE TO OFFER. Not good. I can tell you that i rarely do those things, and when I do it it is always on my terms. I would say women buy me 5 times more gifts than what I would buy for them.

Men, trust me when I say this....Most guys will ‘settle’ for anything they can get. When you let a woman know that you are actually sizing HER up, SHE’LL be the one trying to impress you. And trust me you are doing her a big favour. Women are accustomed to having a guy kiss their **** and do anything and everything to attempt to please them… but all it does is drive them nuts. Think I'm wrong? Just think back to your early dating years.....

Ok....that's enough for now. Most of my posts are under 3 lines! Feel free to agree and disagree.

 

[alexlee]

I hope we didn't scare off Kero from proposing.......

Go for it, Kero.
Alex

 

[wylie]

That doesn't really make sense. Women in general are attracted to shiny things like jewelery, nice cars, expensive clothes and Platinum Amex's. Don't believe me? Go out and try to hook in wearing your casual clothes then go out wearing a designer suit and 'look' rich and see how different the reactions you get are. Mark

This is ridiculous (and another sweeping generalisation). You are drinking at the wrong places, with the wrong women.

When I was young and going to pubs and clubs, I couldn't give a rats about cars, clothes or any colour Amex cards. I would rather "hook in" with a "normal" bloke in casual gear than someone who looks like he is trying to attract the ditzy piece in the red dress (or whatever designer piece she is wearing). Seriously Mark, would you REALLY want a relationship with one of the women you attract when you "dress up"? I think not, and you have said as much yourself.

Funny thing is, those women probably have one "drop dead gorgeous" dress and are dressing up to catch the rich man, while the rich man has one "drop dead gorgeous" suit trying to catch the rich woman. That would be funny

Maybe I am just not a "normal" woman, but plenty of women like me on this forum disagree with your idea of "women in general".

PS. I do understand "pink bits" but I was trying to keep this clean.

 

[alexlee]

Though I have to admit. If I see a beautiful woman dressed in a short skirt and high heels, I'm more likely to look than if the same woman was dressed in an oversized t-shirt and a pair of old trakkies.
Alex

 

[oc1]

Though I have to admit. If I see a beautiful woman dressed in a short skirt and high heels, I'm more likely to look than if the same woman was dressed in an oversized t-shirt and a pair of old trakkies.
Alex

That's because men and women are initially attracted to different things...i.e with men looks come first and with women it's personality and body language. (Brad Bitt I guess an exception to the rule)

And i understand exactly where Wylie is coming from. Most men just don't "get it".

 

[BayView]

That's because men and women are initially attracted to different things...i.e with men looks come first and with women it's personality. (Brad Bitt I guess an exception to the rule)

And i understand exactly where Wylie is coming from. Most men just don't "get it".

So, if women are attracted to personality first, looks second (or third?), then how come if a dorky looking guy goes up to a hot chick in a nightclub or bar and attempts to talk to her, she gives him the bum's rush after 3.4 seconds.

So then; remove dork from scene and insert Brad Pitt or George Clooney type, and same hot chick turns towards him, gives the hair a bit of a flick, cocks the head to one side, smiles coy-ly and says HI.

Personality huh?

Happens oh, about a million times every night.

 

[sue78]

Oh please..it's a matter of fact. Good looking guys and girls will get courted...the ones that showers the most gifts, talks the most crap and promisese the most usually gets the guy/girl.

I have great courting memories.if you really like someone then buy the 101 roses regardless of whether you get rejected or not...you need to experience everything. She could turn out to be your wife and if not, you can look back in years to come and think the sillly things you did for love and laught about it! I am sure I've broken some hearts but then I've had mine broken too..it's all good memories and makes life interesting.

Alex - we are very much alike..don't care about whether the other person has money but not too bothered if they like us because of our money...well I would prefer looks and personality more than money being a girl. But some people will leav eyou higha nd dry if you run out of money...those are the ones you have to be careful of.

 

[wylie]

Marc, I agree about the dorky guy trying to chat up the hot chick and getting rejected, but it works both ways you know.

Plenty of "ordinary" girls never get asked because many of the guys are all trying to get the small percentage of "hot chicks" and just leave the others alone. It is a cruel, cruel world, and trying to find a partner in these places often is a waste.

In my years of clubbing, I met some really nice guys, but plenty of guys who were more interested in getting drunk and laid than meeting the "woman of their dreams".

And, remembering back, even back in my day (in the dark ages) women were doing a lot of the approaching. So it is not just the men who are getting rejected.

I would think that nothing changes with the years. Girls and guys all want to attract a good looking chap to drink and dance with. If he turns out to be a vacuous tosser, then that becomes clear within about one minute. Same for women, I am sure.

I used to scrub up pretty well, but not in the "super model" league. What I found was that the really good looking guys would often be scanning the room for something better while talking to me. That was the limit for me and said so much about that man. I am sure plenty of women do the same thing.

I met some really nice guys at pubs and clubs, but I think that is because of the type of girl I was, partly how I looked, but I had much more going for me than a shiny dress.... I didn't ever shun any guy who ever asked me to dance, because I was just an "ordinary girl" who was flattered that someone would ask me to dance or have a drink, and certainly not up myself. Plenty of the other types around though.

I am soooo glad I am not in the pub and club scene now. But it was pretty much the same when I was.

I really don't think "gold digging women" or "super model digging men" are that different, and are most welcome to each other. They deserve what they get

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

You are drinking at the wrong places, with the wrong women.

Drinking at the wrong places with the wrong women? What does that even mean? Let me tell you, I was a quiet, meek fella up to not long ago (a few years). Didn't have a lot of luck with the ladies. Have since grown a lot more confidence and come across a lot more arrogant too. Suddenly I do a lot better with women than I did before. It seems to me from personal experience that the quote 'Treat a woman like dirt and she'll stick to you like mud' has more than a passing tinge of truth to it.

Now before you get all uppity about it, I don't 'treat women like dirt'. I don't treat them the way I used to anymore either. Which was trying to be nice and give them compliments and be a general all around good bloke. It seems that presenting a challenge to women is what they want, at least in my experience and also in the experience of many blokes that I've spoken to about this very issue.

Mark

 

[oc1]

So, if women are attracted to personality first, looks second (or third?), then how come if a dorky looking guy goes up to a hot chick in a nightclub or bar and attempts to talk to her, she gives him the bum's rush after 3.4 seconds.

Did you know a semi-attractive girl will, on average, get hit on 15 times a night each time she goes out? If she went out twice a week for 7 weeks do you know how many times she would have been hit on? 10920 times!! Do you honestly think she has time for every single guy that hits on her?? Women have a lot of one liners they use to weed out the average man. They have to they have no choice. So if you come across as just a regular guy (even if you are in a $5000 suit) you have very little chance. Obviously dressed as a bum doesn't increase your chances either. If you don't believe me ask any attractive women you know in there 20's or 30's. You have to separate yourself from the rest, and what you say is the most effective way to do so (read - PERSONALITY). I'm sure the females here will agree.

When this was put to me by a mate a few years ago I didn't believe him. I then asked a few girls I knew and come up with the same numbers. LA Aussie, this is much more a complex issue than you realise.

And yes, some girls will just go for you on your looks alone.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Seriously Mark, would you REALLY want a relationship with one of the women you attract when you "dress up"? I think not, and you have said as much yourself.

Hi Wylie,

I don't dress up (the most formal I ever get is when I wear a shirt and slacks to work, lol). I'm not looking for a relationship with any of these types of women. I'm not actually looking for any type of relationship at all. But as someone else already noted - it's an evolutionary thing. Females want the male that will provide them and their offspring with the most chances of surviving to the next generation. You can deny it if you want, but it's 100% accurate. That's the way it's been since the dawn of time. We might be able to reason (and that is what sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom, but we are still animals).

The same goes with males - they want the most attractive female for the same reason. Where women put men with the most money/power at the top, men put the women with the most attractive physical features on top. This is why you see males preening themselves so much in order to attract the mate of their desires. The majority of men don't buy designer clothes and expensive cars because they want them, they buy them because they want the woman. That's just a fact. As a man, I know this is a fact.

Mark

 

[oc1]

It seems that presenting a challenge to women is what they want

Yes!!! Act like the prize. Women love a challenge as much as men do, maybe even more. You say you have had better luck since your "treat 'em mean" character (while i don't agree with the phrase) has come into play. This has you most likely coming across as a non-needy, non-clingy guy who has options. Women can now see this in you. It makes a hell of a difference. Now add some cocky humor when you talk and have a couple of females around you the next time you're at the bar and see what happens

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Oscar,

Thanks for the tips, mate hahaha. But I don't want/need them. I'm very happy as a single man. I think where I have the success is that maybe I do come across as a challenge. As in 'hey, I'm not really interested in you sexually' sort of way. Women want to be noticed in this way - again part of evolution. It's fun to flirt but ultimately I don't really have the desire to play the dating game.

Mark

 

[willair]

It's fun to flirt but ultimately I don't really have the desire to play the dating game.

Maybe more Australian Men should have Sir Les Paterson as a role model he seems to have all the Ladies after him..willair..

 

[kero]

thanks for the suggestions & sharing your experiences. didn't know this topic can clock up to 5 to 6 pages

My friends and I went 'window shopping' for the proposal ring this arvo. obviously its the first time... so not sure how much i should spend... don;t know much about diamonds as well... but i do know a bit now... it can be round or square... 4 or 6 claws... the affordable ones are 0.3 and below... the grade, still learning about them... white & yellow gold... anyone has a copy of 'diamonds for dummies'????

i am also asking mates in Singapore to source out more options... don;t mind flying there to buy it & fly back over a weekend.

will keep you guys posted.

 

[Perp]

anyone has a copy of 'diamonds for dummies'????

http://www.thediamondbuyingguide.com/

 

[sue78]

go to

www.mondera.com or www.bluenile.com...you can design your e-ring and they have a huge database of diamonds. I bought a solitaire from Mondera, had it delivered to my cuzn in the US and she sent it to me in Oz. You get a GIA certificate. I paid about AUD$1500 for a D, VS2, brilliant cut 0.49 carat round solitaire set on 6 prong platinum. That's so cheap for such a high grade diamond but the it's because it's 0.49 carat. If it's the magic number 0.50 carat, add another $1k. I was quoted $5k from a retail store for a similar diamond ring.

for australian wholsalers try www.jogiadiamonds.com he has a huge database of diamonds I bought a 3 stone ring from him and he managed to source all the side stone the same size, clarity and colour to match the centre stone. It's a total 1.45 carat for I think about $3,800...it's so beautiful and sparkles like crazy under natural sunlight (be careful shopping in jewellery shops because they use incandescent lighting so all diamonds sparkle, need to check it under sunlight). I have a valuation certificate for the ring at I think around $10k but the same ring at Tiffanys is around $20k and the diamond quality is not as good.

For good quality stick to D-F for colour (white diamond), VVS1 to Vs2 for clarity (the difference of clarity can be $$$$$) with the cheap ones in the retail shops, to a trained naked eye you can see black carbon and the cut is probably the most important...get an excellent cut because a good cut will reflect light and sparkle like mad.

Round is usually the most expensive. Princess cut is a good alternative and a bit cheaper. They're the most popular. My 3 stone one is all in oval shape. Marquid is also very pretty.

A white diamond centre with sapphire accents is also stunning...I'm hoping hubby will be one for our 10yr anniversary.

and this is my ring.

my other ring - this is the classic Tiffany style 6 prong with round brilliant cut...it's Tiffany's signature ring....very romantic. It sits very very high.

a good website for guide to diamonds is www.diamondtalk.com there's a forum there. i was a regular for awhile.