Separating

Evening All,

Always a pleasure reading your posts Belbo; not sure what it is you do for a crust, but your wit and written word seem wasted on an internet forum when it could be applied at a higher level in business.

My tirade as such wasn't aimed at your good self or anyone in particular, far from it, my commentary was put out there for the many forum-ites past, present & future who tend to raise the same questions pertaining to the same issues when mulling over the concept of property ownership in far flung places they are not entirely familiar with. The key to it all is to be fully satisfied with the quality of your research and if you are, commit. If you're nervous, bail out and go play in another sandpit.

All too often I read commentary from people who just need a tremendous slapping with a frozen haddock. Some of these people are considering playing with huge amounts of money, yet their questioning indicates they should clearly not even be left alone to put their soft toys back in the cot. The oft quoted adage, "Well, everybody has to start somewhere..." just doesn't cut it in this arena if you haven't at least shown the courtesy of having done some significant reading & research prior to hitting a forum with questions.

You have clearly picked up on a degree of agitation & angst in my previous posts and you are correct in your perception. I have been venting just a wee bit this last week due to my wife snatching our two boys (12yrs & 14yrs) out of school last Tuesday and fleeing back to Adelaide without my knowing. We were going to separate formally at end of school term (so boys could finish their school year here in Hervey Bay), but she couldn't go the distance and bailed out 6 weeks early and caught me totally off guard. I spoke with my boys that same night after they hit Adelaide and they were distraught because they had no idea it was happening either; they have settled a bit since, but I know they're hurting. The marriage breakdown has been a work in progress over the last few years, so there was no surprise in that and we had spoken openly and at length with the kids a number of times about how & why we've decided to go our own way. Nonetheless, it doesn't matter how much you prepare for this type of thing it still cuts you to the core when the youngsters are involved.

I'm not normally this active on the forum, but I've spent a bit of time on it to keep my mind off what's going down in the real world. So there may be a modicum of psychotic vitriol (complete with graphic step by step instructions on how to disembowel a budgie with a post hole digger) permeate my next series of replies when some sensitive, new age, do-gooder moron asks for opinions because they're unsure if they should put their asking rent up by $1.27c a week just because they don't want to lose their tenants!!

Time for my pills.......triple dose of green ones tonight.......yeehaa!!!

'Night.
 
Nothing witty or glib from me now, Ian. Just want to say thanks again for the input, and wish you well with this tough patch of yours.
 
Ian if it floats or flies, rent it. It's cheaper but you know that already :D
Seriously, i hope it works out for the best after some time has passed... i like the cut of your jib
 
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permeate my next series of replies when some sensitive, new age, do-gooder moron asks for opinions because they're unsure if they should put their asking rent up by $1.27c a week just because they don't want to lose their tenants!!

Another classic!

Hope all goes well with your family, and things are sorted quick-smart.

I hope the next thing that spurs a flurry of posting is nowhere near as drastic, never-the-less, i look forward to it.
 
Sounds like you have accumulated some wealth in your travels- I would consider a Family Lawyer in Brisbane as I know 1 or 2 of the local yokels in Harvey Bay who inspire minimal confidence.

Good luck- remove emotion and act commercially.
 
FFS cu, you're talking about his wife and two boys....remove emotion.... :rolleyes:

You're not a lawyer are you ??

Today I negotiated a settlement for a property dispute for a defacto couple. I used these words when determining a commercial decision. Pride was injured in my client but he will end up with more $ in his pocket then if he "proves a point " in Court.

With children involved many people lose sight of objectivity- can a parent care for the kids- where is it best for them to live- what the Court will award if the parties can't agree to kids/property etc.

If there is an agreement to take the kids elsewhere- fine, but where "kidnapped" without a chance to say goodbye I can see the first steps of parental alienation syndrome starting. Highly emotive stuff but it is possible to approach coldly and rationally- set goals and then implement them.

My client today understood commercial reality- and I have had cases where with children involved the decision making has been rational- not spiteful/get even/ show him or her what for etc.

Plenty of lawyers will happily take the $ to run lunatic ventures for clients- not my cup of tea. I subscribe to the "success is the best revenge" against your (increasingly irrelevant) ex.

I still have clients thank me years after their case.

I stopped doing children's matters though Dazz for the point you made- for many clients they cannot remove emotion and become incapable of rational decisions.

Great thing about property law- it's usually all about money and whether the figures stack up.
 
Afternoon All,

First off, please let me say "thank you" for your support, I am very grateful and overwhelmed. Thanks Dazz for going into bat there, but it's quite ok and Im comfortable with CUs comments.

I actually concur with your post(s) CU because they are apt and very indicative of our case.......and of course I would be a complete liar & hypocrite if I said I haven't been thinking of finances.

It didn't really sink in and strike me hard that my wife had taken the boys under duress, until the next morning when I went to pick up her car from the airport. My first thoughts (which still remain very strong) were regarding the raw emotion and hurt those kids felt when they turned into the airport road and they would have asked why they were going there. She would have told them why and that they needed to get changed out of their school uniforms and grab a couple of backpacks and the suitcase......I can only imagine their stomachs churning.

I found the car and looked in to see the boys uniforms strewn through the back, just as they had removed them.....I fell apart when I saw them and their school bags.....and I know both boys would have been bawling their eyes out, especially my 12yr old because he is cursed with a lot of my emotive traits and I could see where he used his school shirt to blow his nose.....all I could think of was them crying and sobbing; they still were when I got to speak with them that night on the phone.

You know, I had absolutely no sense of feeling towards my wife at that moment when I found the car, it's only been in the days since that I have accepted that she would have been just as big an emotional mess as them.

The one thing that I find solace in and it is irrefutable, is that I know they are all being looked after with her family around - they are loved; I can't & won't challenge that.

I have no intention of fighting custody issues unless she refuses to let me see the boys.....(then all hell will break loose). We have just cleared the way for me to have the boys up here for two weeks in December before I go back to work; and i'll try to arrange for school holidays and other odd occasions as much as possible in due course.

I'll sit with my boys and talk through what happened on that day as soon as I sense they are ready; and I'll try, as I have done the last couple of phone calls with them, to reassure them that there is some good in this.

Do I accept where we now find ourselves, the marriage breakdown & ongoing segregation? Yes, absolutely. I am grateful, they are all still alive; i'd rather this than to have them taken from me in a car crash or some other tragedy.

Do I, or will I forgive my wife for the trauma she subjected my boys to that afternoon? Never!!

Now.....hopefully........ it is just commercial and remains so as much as possible for all our sakes.

Thanks again.

Ian.
 
I've split this thread from the thread about investing in mining towns, so as to keep the theme going in each thread.
 
Geez, the way she left is real crap. Really sorry to hear that.

It does sound like your relationship with your children is a strong one. Work on keeping the lines of communication supportive, open and loving (hope your wife's not the type to sabotage this) and things should be fine over time.

Always remember it's the parents separating, not the kids. You'll always be their dad, and at this age even if she wanted to, she probably wouldn't be too successful at keeping them from seeing you.

Will you remain in HB or return to Adelaide?
 
why is it that with marriage break ups it mostly becomes a hate match?
I don't even know why I am posting on this issue, I suppose it upsets me to know that children must suffer because parents act like idiots !

Ian, please keep in mind that the greatest thing you can do for the self esteem of your kids is to NOT hate their mother. You CAN find a way to love and forgive her, she was your wife, she gave you 2 kids. Value that time, honour that memory.

People change, relationships fall apart, why does a person have to become a second grade citizen just because the marriage is over. Once upon a time they were good enough to marry and today they are trash ?

I agree that the way she left you is not exactly admirable, but I wonder why she left in that manner, was she afraid ? is she weak ? was she feeling desperate ?
is she lacking a few brain cells ? then feel sorry for her, not hate.

and as far as you lawyers and your finances go, stuff you cold lot !

Ian, this must be an excruciatingly painful time for you, step back,
allow yourself to feel hurt and angry, take time out. I wish you all the best , don't devastate your kids any further, be the bigger person and always keep an open heart.
 
There will be times you will hate her and want to scream, but hang in there and don't alienate her. If you do, it will be you who misses out. It will be you who wont get invited to birthdays, 21st, engagements, weddings, grandkids. I'm not saying put up with anything, just try and stay rational, have time out before discussing things again. This the bestadvice you will ever get.
 
and as far as you lawyers and your finances go, stuff you cold lot !

Not cold- but rational. Either the relationship is on or it is off. If a rough patch- counselling may help, but there will come a point where one or both parties decide it is over and no chance of getting back together.

Judging by the manner Ian's wife has departed I think it is at this point.

Regrettably, the best thing for a party to do at this point is get on with life and start again. That means a severing of financial dealings (although there will always be the Child Support Agency) and finalizing arrangements for the children's welfare.

Commonly, the children will be used by one party to lever a financial advantage over the other ("give me $ and you can get to see the kids"). For most men this is par for the course- and I agree to resist temptation and always be civil to the ex - never give them a toehold to be used against you to increase the ex's stakes with them (the kids)- otherwise you will end up missing 21sts etc.

But never underestimate children and their ability to think for themselves, but when brainwashing occurs it may take years but frequently the kids will wake up to what's going on. In the mean time they will be bought off with a new iPad, x-box game or whatever by the custodial parent.

Sever the financials properly (not a handshake agreement) get the kids arrangements as orders (so if mum won't let them go to see you a copy of the sealed court order can be given to the local police to enforce) and start again.

Had a 70 year old file for her divorce- last 20 years were loveless and she was married to an orthopaedic surgeon (read:pig) - upon separation she said these were now the best years of her life. So there is hope for us all.
 
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Not cold- but rational. Either the relationship is on or it is off. If a rough patch- counselling may help, but there will come a point where one or both parties decide it is over and no chance of getting back together.

Judging by the manner Ian's wife has departed I think it is at this point.

Regrettably, the best thing for a party to do at this point is get on with life and start again. That means a severing of financial dealings (although there will always be the Child Support Agency) and finalizing arrangements for the children's welfare.

Commonly, the children will be used by one party to lever a financial advantage over the other ("give me $ and you can get to see the kids"). For most men this is par for the course- and I agree to resist temptation and always be civil to the ex - never give them a toehold to be used against you to increase the ex's stakes with them (the kids)- otherwise you will end up missing 21sts etc.

But never underestimate children and their ability to think for themselves, but when brainwashing occurs it may take years but frequently the kids will wake up to what's going on. In the mean time they will be bought off with a new iPad, x-box game or whatever by the custodial parent.

Sever the financials properly (not a handshake agreement) get the kids arrangements as orders (so if mum won't let them go to see you a copy of the sealed court order can be given to the local police to enforce) and start again.

Had a 70 year old file for her divorce- last 20 years were loveless and she was married to an orthopaedic surgeon (read:pig) - upon separation she said these were now the best years of her life. So there is hope for us all.


How sad this bolded section. I know 3 couples (out of hundreds) who were able to fairly sought out their finances, lovingly share their kids and remain amicable without lawyers and courts telling someone when they can and can't see their own children.

I hope this for you Ian. Tread carefully, don't make your wife your enemy, show her respect, be thoughtful and fair. Ring your kids everyday to just say hi.

goodluck.
 
There will be times you will hate her and want to scream, but hang in there and don't alienate her. If you do, it will be you who misses out. It will be you who wont get invited to birthdays, 21st, engagements, weddings, grandkids. I'm not saying put up with anything, just try and stay rational, have time out before discussing things again. This the bestadvice you will ever get.


Very true,

Hubby's ex was a manipulative cow right from the start (she left him but didn't consider he'd find someone else) because we wouldn't let her dictate to us how to live our lives with "her" children or hand over wads of cash for all her expenses.

It meant that everything that was said in confidence, or discussed, was twisted by her to make us look like utter b**tards and immediately reported to the (then) young kids by their "caring and sharing" mother. Something we didn't realise was going on until 10 years later.

Because their mother "wouldn't" lie to them :rolleyes:, and because it went on for so long, we have a very poor relationship with his children - hence we don't get invites to any party occasions in their lives (21st, 18th etc) although we do celebrate with them with a special dinner or something.

Hubby gets depressed from the missing out and, in hindsight, I wish we'd just ignored her instead of trying to stand our ground and push back - which sometimes got heated but we were careful not to involve the kids ... not realising that she was doing just that to our disadvantage.

The sad part is that the kids (now adults) were so brainwashed for such a large period of their growing up, we can only hope that in the future they "click" to what went on ... but I doubt it ... unless one of them goes thru a similar situation from the step parents side.
 
How sad this bolded section. I know 3 couples (out of hundreds) who were able to fairly sought out their finances, lovingly share their kids and remain amicable without lawyers and courts telling someone when they can and can't see their own children.

I hope this for you Ian. Tread carefully, don't make your wife your enemy, show her respect, be thoughtful and fair. Ring your kids everyday to just say hi.

goodluck.

I wholeheartedly agree. If it were me I would make big concessions on the property rather then feed the lawyers. At least the $ with the ex will hopefully find its way to the kids. Keep thing sweet.

Sadly the Courts are needed for when (usually) mum doesn't like Dad's new girlfriend, or things arent working out with her new BF, or people are getting in her ear syaing the ex has hid assets andis now spending up big etc etc etc.

Phonecalls? I've seen cases ranging from getting a silent number and not telling dad to standing over the shoulder of junior during phone contact monitoring the call and stating their displeasure. For the smarter ones its a bit more subtle: "Your father will be ringing. You can stay here and wait for the call but the rest of us are going to the video store and then an ice-cream. Wanna come with us instead?".

Judging from some of the responses to my lawyer posts it seems many forumites have no real inkling of how these things can pan out - even if one party is well intentioned. Frequently accomodations are seen as a sign of weakness and an invite to see "how much further I can push it" by the other party.No good deed goes unpunished.

Ian's wife has taken the kids without consultation or regard to the children's emotional welfare.It was done with a degree of forethought and deception. Effectively treating them as a piece of property for which she is claiming ownership by possession. This sort of behaviour is regrettably all too common. A Court Order actually works for the protection of the non "custodial" parent IMHO.

My 2 cents worth anyway.
 
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