Should we fund barbiatric surgery

The government introduced compulsory super in 1992 to alleviate future strain on the public purse as we have an aging population, the current government has pushed back the pension age and in doing so has hopefully made the wider population think more about their retirement plans (who am I kidding?).
Maybe the government should do the same when it comes to self inflicted health issues?
The quit smoking campaign has been used in various forms since 1976 and the consequences of alcohol abuse are widely known along with illicit drugs as well, maybe it's time the government put a deadline on its (our) support of those who willingly destroy their own bodies through these means and possibly into the future (after a much more intensive obesity awareness campaign) do the same with obesity related medical treatments too?
 
it's an interesting debate.

we hear the outcry "they made themselves fat, so they should have to pay for it"

not an unreasonable stance but one must be consistent:

-should smokers get treatment for lung cancer funded?
-should someone with a bad diet get their diabetes medications on the PBS?
-should someone who rides motor bikes get their broken leg fixed at a public hospital?
-should someone who decided to have children at the age of 43 due to concentrating on their career earlier in their life get their IVF funded?


i dont see how we can pick and choose.

yes, morbidly obese people should get bariatric surgery in the public health system, or significant medicare rebates if they go private.

i dont understand why cigarettes are taxed so heavily yet fatty foods aren't? heart disease is a far bigger burden on the health system than lung cancer is.
 
Really? You're going to compare someone going through IVF to someone who chooses to kill themselves with cigarettes?
 
johnpendles said:
yes, morbidly obese people should get bariatric surgery in the public health system, or significant medicare rebates if they go private.
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Can you please explain why?

(Also, I'm not deliberately trying to single you out, I'd just like to hear the view from another perspective).
 
if this is a debate about the bucks then the entire health system can be scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up. first of all sort out the fact from the fiction, invert the food pyramid and conclude whether cholesterol is indeed a problem or not as it seems drug companies are shouting over the top of all research. then stop this criminal industry which sees medicine as a road to riches. I dread the thought of getting older and spending endless hours waiting around in medical rooms hoping for the appearance of the elusive Bentley driving specialist to wander in and dish out drugs pushed by the drug industry of questionable value. Saw that program a while back about the corn industry in the US and how fructose is killing the population - an amazing story which I didn't know about i.e. why fructose is so bad and why it was/is pushed so heavy in dietary products.

as for the fat surgery, if it works I can't see why it's so bad, tho I didn't know it had an 80% failure rate per earlier poster.
 
Mr. Fabulous said:
Don't I know it! A pack of marvelous Marlboro Reds costs 20 bucks nowadays! Crazy.
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Don't worry. When you get to Thailand you will be fine. My BIL sent his friend to the shop on the weekend to get him a bag of rollies and he came back with a month's supply for some miniscule $$ amount.
 
I know 2 people who had the band done, both now back to original weight after 3 years, a complete waste of time, money and health resources.

When they asked about getting the operation they were told to lose some weight as it was too risky to operate, they followed the diet for 3 months and lost about 10 kgs each.

Then they had the operation, they stayed on the diet they were given and lost more weight, then went off the diet and put it all back on.

The band slows the intake of food so they think "I can only have a little bit so I will eat dessert first"................ says the guy to me :confused:
 
I think that public funding should be used to assist people in losing weight and I think that there should be some kind of consumption tax on unhealthy foods, particularly those which are high in sugar or saturated/trans fats.

The exact mechanics of how it would work is beyond me, but I think it will represent an up front investment which will hopefully compound and lessen burden on society later on.

I don't think barbiatric surgery is the way to go because I believe it's more a mindset and education issue than a simply physical one.

I agree that every individual bears some responsibility for their own individual situation, but I also think to try and say that everyone starts with level footing is silly.
 
Television said:
I think that public funding should be used to assist people in losing weight You lost me here and I think that there should be some kind of consumption tax on unhealthy foods, particularly those which are high in sugar or saturated/trans fats. but wone me here...

The exact mechanics of how it would work is beyond me, but I think it will represent an up front investment which will hopefully compound and lessen burden on society later on.

I don't think barbiatric surgery is the way to go because I believe it's more a mindset and education issue than a simply physical one. and here....

I agree that every individual bears some responsibility for their own individual situation, but I also think to try and say that everyone starts with level footing is silly. But lost me again here.
Click to expand...

Why couldn't the government just say to the entire population that in 20 years they will cut funding to any medical ailments proven to be caused by self inflicted habits ie. smoking, drinking excessively, eating a high sugar/fatty diet?

Why is it silly to suggest that everyone starts with a level footing?
 
and then we also won't treat car accident victims as it was their choice to get in a car, what about passive smoking problems from living with a smoker, or if you get fit now but the damage is already done?
Impossible to police.
I don't think funding bands will work on what is essentially a mental issue as are all addictions in some way or another. You just can see the side effects of this one more easily than smoking or drinking.
The difference is that this is one addiction you can't go cold turkey on, or have none of it in your house. It would be like telling an alcoholic that they can only have 2 drinks a day, once they start they can't stop and you would never expect them to adhere to such a ridiculous regime, or tell a druggie they can still have a hit/day and be cured. It makes no sense.
And shaming has been proved to make it worse. So you are over-weight and decide to go for a run and spend the whole time being abused- what do you think is the outcome?? They go home and eat more and go out less. Because it is a mental issue.
If you think it isn't then I would suggest you have never had an addiction.
 
I don't think the surgery is a good idea, because it's not a permanent solution. There are probably some exceptional cases, of course.

Over the past few years I've put some extra weight on, despite my big weight loss kick 9 years ago (probably documented here on somersoft!).

Over the past 5 months I've shed 17kg, and now have visible abs and well defined muscle tone across my body. How did I do it? Same as last time. Walked a lot, ran a bit, did some calisthenics/weights occasionally, drank plenty of water, filled up on salad/veggies and took it easy on the grog. The weight has fallen off at about a kg per week and I feel strong and fit.

Bottom line, if you want to lose weight, you need to eat fewer kilojoules than you consume, and do it consistently. I reckon eating about 85% of the energy you expend is pretty close to ideal.
 
joanmc said:
and then we also won't treat car accident victims as it was their choice to get in a car, what about passive smoking problems from living with a smoker, or if you get fit now but the damage is already done?
Impossible to police.
I don't think funding bands will work on what is essentially a mental issue as are all addictions in some way or another. You just can see the side effects of this one more easily than smoking or drinking.
The difference is that this is one addiction you can't go cold turkey on, or have none of it in your house. It would be like telling an alcoholic that they can only have 2 drinks a day, once they start they can't stop and you would never expect them to adhere to such a ridiculous regime, or tell a druggie they can still have a hit/day and be cured. It makes no sense.
And shaming has been proved to make it worse. So you are over-weight and decide to go for a run and spend the whole time being abused- what do you think is the outcome?? They go home and eat more and go out less. Because it is a mental issue.
If you think it isn't then I would suggest you have never had an addiction.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with your comments. Unfortunately for some reason many do not accept that it is an addiction.

Here is an interesting link

http://foodaddiction.com/resources/science-of-food-addiction/
 
VYBerlinaV8 said:
.Bottom line, if you want to lose weight, you need to eat fewer kilojoules than you consume, and do it consistently. I reckon eating about 85% of the energy you expend is pretty close to ideal.
Click to expand...

That's right and there is enough information that you would have to be deaf, dumb or blind not to know what one needs to do, so if it was that easy, why is everyone getting fatter?

As I mentioned in a previous post I agree with joanmc, its an addiction, people who are morbidly obese in some cases are confined to a bed and have no quality of life, why would anyone want to live like this?? Similar to a smoker, alcoholic its an addiction.

I have no idea on stats with regards to the success of bariatric surgery??
 
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