Should we fund barbiatric surgery
- Thread starter MTR
- Start date
Is it just me but did anyone read the title as "barbaric surgery "
I thought it was a mixture, a deliberate play on words
I reckon a big contributor to current fat levels is the invention of the drive through.
I know that if there wasn't any drive thru I simply wouldn't bother with fast food - as I imagine in the case with most people.
I only every park and go in if need the bathroom ... would mean no more coffee frappes on a hot day tho
As for obese, bedridden people ... obviously someone else is feeding them. I can never understand why they do this, but gather it's to keep the peace - like bribing a tantrum throwing child.
I know that if there wasn't any drive thru I simply wouldn't bother with fast food - as I imagine in the case with most people.
I only every park and go in if need the bathroom ... would mean no more coffee frappes on a hot day tho
As for obese, bedridden people ... obviously someone else is feeding them. I can never understand why they do this, but gather it's to keep the peace - like bribing a tantrum throwing child.
But it helps if you no longer feel hungry all the time like I used to before my gastric band. Before it I would never get full. This wasn't a result of lack of willpower, this was a result of numerous surgeries which left me unable to walk more than a couple of hundred metres for over a year each time I had to have the surgery. Going from being somewhat active to not active at all really made me pile on the weight. Combined with being bored from not been able to do the things I used to do made me eat a lot more.
Having the band meant that I at least didn't feel hungry all the time. It meant that I could actually diet and not feel like it was a waste of time. I lost 50 kilos in 4 years.
Unfortunately I developed breathing problems which turned out to be caused by the band and I had to get most of the fluid back out so have now put half of it back on again (in just under a year). I'm slowly getting it tightened again and sure enough the weight is coming off again.
So it can work! I wish I had got the sleeve in hindsight (not as many side effects), but the band also can work if you actually do follow a healthy eating plan.
The first person who invents a 'zero cal' chocolate pudding will be a billionaire within a week.
As for government funding of barbiatric surgery, it's a very slippery slope for the government to continually expand it's role in private citizens lives. I believe a lot of this comes back to the fact that there is a fundamental disconnect between Australian's health and the *costs* associated with their choices. The more paternalistic the government becomes, the more government intervention is required as the population infantilises under the lack of self direction and responsibility.
As for government funding of barbiatric surgery, it's a very slippery slope for the government to continually expand it's role in private citizens lives. I believe a lot of this comes back to the fact that there is a fundamental disconnect between Australian's health and the *costs* associated with their choices. The more paternalistic the government becomes, the more government intervention is required as the population infantilises under the lack of self direction and responsibility.
Believe it or not you are demonstrating Willpower!
people undergo IVF for various different reasons. quite often it's because of various choices they've made that have resulted in delaying starting a family. sometimes they aren't choices.
im not saying they are one and the same. merely trying to point out that the public health system funds tons of different operations, medications etc etc because of decisions people have made earlier in their life.
i just find it interesting that the line is drawn at bariatric surgery for many.
Sure.
I guess my argument is that we dont NOT treat others who have made poor choices in their life. drink driving, cigarette smoking, alcohol drinking, not getting pap smears, not getting prostate checks etc etc. so i dont see how the argument could be made that morbidly obese people shouldn't receive treatment too.
having said that, its important to note that bariatric surgery is not 100% successful. also, sometimes there are circumstances whereby a person won't get the recommended treatment if they are still partaking in adverse behaviour. i.e., someone who still smokes often won't get home oxygen (its prob also a safety issue), people who are still drinking alcohol won't get the liver transplant they need etc etc.
what could be done, is to have some sort of criteria that a patient would have to fulfil before being eligible for publicly funded bariatric surgery. i.e., a minimum of 10% body weight loss before they are eligible etc etc
People need to take responsibilites for their actions,
you smoke, eat mcdonalds everyday,then you are going to have health problems,
no one takes responsbiltiy for their actions in the 21st century
i completely agree.
but if that's the argument, then public funding for treatments for all sorts of conditions should be removed. my point is that funding for all those conditions/diseases is funded, so why not bariatric surgery.
I would support the surgery, if it actually helped...but it doesn't seem to, long term.
Morbidly obese have more problems than eating too many calories.
The ones that are bedridden, have enablers. So I say...just let them eat as much as they want.
For the 'normal' overweight..it is nothing more than gluttony.
They know they shouldn't, but they eat it any ways...it's so tasty
The only real exercise they need is to push themselves away from the table.
Morbidly obese have more problems than eating too many calories.
The ones that are bedridden, have enablers. So I say...just let them eat as much as they want.
For the 'normal' overweight..it is nothing more than gluttony.
They know they shouldn't, but they eat it any ways...it's so tasty
The only real exercise they need is to push themselves away from the table.
I had a look at the evidence based literature today regarding longer term effectiveness of this surgery.
In summary, evidence points to it being more effective than conventional weight loss (diet restriction) for those with BMI over 40 - with the sleeving procedure and other surgeries which reduce absorption more effective than the banding.
This is based on metanalysis of multiple RCTS including a largeish trial with a 10 year follow up study in Sweden.
For morbidly obese patients, bariatirc surgery increases life expectancy , reduces comorbid diesase and is "cost effective".
In summary, evidence points to it being more effective than conventional weight loss (diet restriction) for those with BMI over 40 - with the sleeving procedure and other surgeries which reduce absorption more effective than the banding.
This is based on metanalysis of multiple RCTS including a largeish trial with a 10 year follow up study in Sweden.
For morbidly obese patients, bariatirc surgery increases life expectancy , reduces comorbid diesase and is "cost effective".
I think that there is a lot of in built stigma and prejudice against fat people in our community.
They are perceived as being lazy and lacking will power. These perceptions prevent funding of effective solutions for obesity. We do know that bariatric surgery is the only evidence based intervention which lasts far longer in terms of weight loss than other interventions such as conventional diet and exercise. This is scientifically proven.
So when a patient has become morbidly obese, only 1-2 per cent of such people can regain normal weight and keep normal weight over a longer term using conventional methods.
Opponents against bariatric surgery also ignore that obesity is multi-factorial and genetics does play a huge role.
its hard to know if it's actually the genetics or if its still lifestyle related. i.e., children and subsequently adults of fat parents are more likely to be fat as they've never been taught good food habits.
Maybe when my band is tight enough that I'm not hungry all the time, as soon as I get too hungry all my healthy eating habits go out the window. It's like some sort of desperation takes over and I just have to eat everything in sight. It's truly horrible. Can't wait till my band is tighter again so I don't feel hungry all the time.
its a generalisation for the sake of making a point,
obviously there are going to be exceptions to the rule...geez
Will power has nothing to do with it. It is willingness, there is a huge difference. If it were simply a matter of will, nobody would ever get hooked on anything.
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