The Ashes - and my thoughts on the problems of Australian Cricket atm.

[MarkB]

I have heard it said that the problem with Australian cricket atm was that it had no world beaters in the team (Clarke a likely exception).

Well I disagree.

I'm not saying that I'd object to if a 25 y/o clone of Warnie came along... or Adam Gilchrist circa 1999.... But you can't manufacture or contrive that sort of talent.

What I think is missing from the Australian team (particularly in the batting....) is a bit of ticker. Otherwise known as backbone. And sometimes also called fortitude.

Examples....

Someone like a Merv Hughes, yeah the guy was a bit of a clown and a slob, and he was certainly not a world beater in the class of Lillee or McGrath. But would he would bowl hard all day and always give 100%? Bet your @rse he would. I remember hearing a story years ago (20+ years back) about how, if the Australian selectors wanted to know if a batsman was up to Test Cricket, they'd see how they would cope with Merv in Shield cricket. Maybe it was a bull story, but it did illustrate to me that people thought Merv played the game hard – even against the West Indian side at the time (the best in the world), he never took a back step. And no, I'm not a Victorian.

Or a Justin Langer.... never, imo, has someone worked so hard to average 45 in test cricket. I'm not saying the guy was not talented, because clearly he was. For me he is one of 3 Australian players of the past 30 years or so who have put the highest price on their wicket (just through what I perceive to be their determination – the other 2 are Allan Border [for whom Australia's top individual cricket award is justifiably named], and Steve Waugh, btw). JL always impressed me more than Hayden – though Hayden has the 50+ average, more tons and a HS of 380. The joke used to be – put Steve Waugh's head on Mark Waugh's body and you'd have a player who would average 60. Put JLs head on MWs body and you could well have had the Don.

Or going further back – a guy like Dean Jones (test avg ~ 46). Who in 1986 in India scored a double ton in 99% humidity and 40+ degree heat while puking his guts out and peeing himself involuntarily. It was a test match we would go onto tie (the 2nd tied test). Jones ended up on a saline drip afterwards and Bob Simpson (then Australian coach) said it was the greatest innings ever played for Australia.

We don't need a team of world beaters – we just need guys who are prepared to play test cricket the way it is meant to be played.

Hard.

 

[Richard Feynman]

It doesn't help that the selectors can't make up their minds, nor that our bowlers keep injuring themselves. Seems like no one has time to plant their feet in the team and really establish themselves.

Countless instances of a player having 2-3 bad matches then being dropped only to bowl 5/45, 4/32, 5/50 or hit 150*, 80 and 60* in their next few domestic matches and not find themselves back in the team for a year, if at all.

 

[Aaron_C]

The team's performance is a national disgrace. At least they lost with dignity in 2005 and came back with a 5-0 whitewash - which I don't think will happen this time, more like the other way around.

 

[Tonibell]

What I think is missing from the Australian team (particularly in the batting....) is a bit of ticker. Otherwise known as backbone. And sometimes also called fortitude.

I agree - they lost a lot more than runs when Hussey and Ponting retired.
They need to play Faulkner just for a his spirit, likewise Warner. Rogers adds some grit but I'd bring back Katich as well.

 

[MarkB]

Watson is a prime example of the sort of spineless wonder that the greater part of the Australian top order have become.

His 31 test innings since the start of 2011 have been -

45
38
22
0
36
8
21
4
88
0
39
52
56
0
41
5
10
25
30
5
83
28
17
23
9
17
5
13
46
30
20

816 runs @ 26.32 (no not outs)
Only twice past 60 in that time.

Too much 20/20.

Not enough pride in representing your country.

 

[MarkB]

More Watson bashing....

Over the same period - Clarke has scored 2680 runs @ 62.32.

1269 of those with Watson in the team - at an average of 43.75.

1411 without Watson in the team @ 100.78.

It's bad enough that Watson can't score runs... but it is even worse that there appears to be a relationship between his presence in the team, and Clarke's relative under performance.

 

[Richard Feynman]

Watson is a prime example of the sort of spineless wonder that the greater part of the Australian top order have become.

His 31 test innings since the start of 2011 have been -

45
38
22
0
36
8
21
4
88
0
39
52
56
0
41
5
10
25
30
5
83
28
17
23
9
17
5
13
46
30
20

816 runs @ 26.32 (no not outs)
Only twice past 60 in that time.

Too much 20/20.

Not enough pride in representing your country.

In his defence, you should include Watto's bowling figures with those innings.. compensates a bit for his average batting.

Yes, I know he's not bowling much at present.

Should replace him with Steve Smith at #3-5.

 

[lizzie]

I don't know if it's me or the cricket but 20+ years ago summer wasn't summer without a big pitcher of iced something and lolling in front of the cricket for a hot weekend.

It was a summer thing - and it was great fun to watch Merv and Warnie et al.

Now it's seems there is just too much constantly, and too mediocre both playing and players so can't be bothered

 

[The Fence]

We don't need a team of world beaters – we just need guys who are prepared to play test cricket the way it is meant to be played.

Hard.

Here here...!

For many years now the bowlers (lower batting order) have produced many runs and even saved matches not only bowling but batting, while the top order continue to perform very very inconsistently.

I also agree....way too much 20/20.

 

[HotRod]

There was an article I read that went into to the batting averages of the Shield comp comparing last year to the height of Aussie power.

IIRC, the average last year was about 26 compared to about 35 when Australia where flailing all before them.

At that time there were player like Hussey/Katich/North/Siddons/Hodge still playing in the Shield and not able to get a look in.

Compare that to today and we have no one pushing hard in the Shield and thus there is no steel at national level, knowing that they won't really be replaced.

Australia needs one player who can hang around all day and slowly compile runs, much like Langer used to do, whilst Hayden, Ponting, etc flail the attack at the other end.

That does not happen now.

The same holds true with bowling.

We used to have a world class spinner and world class bowler, that in tandem, would strangle the life out of the opposition batsmen and cause them to make an error and get out (that's Warne and McGrath for those playing along).

Remember Warne's first test? He went 1/228 in his first series. If that was today, he'd be dropped and never heard of again.

The selectors need to persevere with the bowlers as they are generally OK and stick with a spinner (I think Agar is the one but Fawad Ahmed might be worth a go as the Poms have a mental block when it comes to leg spinners).

The top order needs to be sorted.

Watson SHOULD NOT OPEN. He should come in at No 4 to take the attack to the opposition and team with Clarke.

Warner should open along with Rodgers and then have Hughes at No. 3.

Rodgers needs to play the Langer role whilst Warner and Hughes can take to the attack.

My team.............

Warner
Rodgers
Hughes
Watson
Clarke
Smith
Haddin
Agar
Harris
Siddle
Bird

 

[Richard Feynman]

Remember Warne's first test? He went 1/228 in his first series. If that was today, he'd be dropped and never heard of again.

The selectors need to persevere with the bowlers as they are generally OK and stick with a spinner (I think Agar is the one but Fawad Ahmed might be worth a go as the Poms have a mental block when it comes to leg spinners).

Yep and yep.

 

[ok180]

I don't know much about cricket but I think it's more of a generational thing. We're seeing it across all sports. This generation of sports people is no where near the one before it.

We're no good a cricket.
Swimmers are a joke
No top ranked tennis players
Socceroo's are relying on the old guard with none of the younger ones inspiring.
Rugby we're also rans

 

[Decimator4000]

Watson is a prime example of the sort of spineless wonder that the greater part of the Australian top order have become.

His 31 test innings since the start of 2011 have been -

45
38
22
0
36
8
21
4
88
0
39
52
56
0
41
5
10
25
30
5
83
28
17
23
9
17
5
13
46
30
20

816 runs @ 26.32 (no not outs)
Only twice past 60 in that time.

Too much 20/20.

Not enough pride in representing your country.

Could you find Matthew Hayden's first 31 appearances. Would like to see whether they are on track. From my memory Matthew was pretty rubbish at the start of his career.

 

[Decimator4000]

I don't know much about cricket but I think it's more of a generational thing. We're seeing it across all sports. This generation of sports people is no where near the one before it.

We're no good a cricket.
Swimmers are a joke
No top ranked tennis players
Socceroo's are relying on the old guard with none of the younger ones inspiring.
Rugby we're also rans

I heard the other day that we were so good in the late 90s and 00s because the amount of money that was put into sports due to the Olympic games was astronomical. Perhaps we had inflated expectations due to $$$ being applied to sports science etc.

 

[DJBarnstar]

^^ We are kicking *** in the Cycling!

 

[HotRod]

Could you find Matthew Hayden's first 31 appearances. Would like to see whether they are on track. From my memory Matthew was pretty rubbish at the start of his career.

But these aren't Watson's first 31.

This is his prime.

 

[MarkB]

A running tally of Watson's woefulness -> 835 runs @ 26.09.

Should I mention his self indulgent use of the DRS?

I'm sure someone will bring up Mark Taylor's extended form slump and how he was not dropped... True... but, the big differences were: (1) Australia was still winning, (2) Taylor, as captain and a brilliant one at at, had a lot to do with our success, and (3) he was, at the time, consider the best slips fielder in the world and he was probably our best slips fielder since Bob Simpson. And being as we had guys like Warne and McGrath - both of whom regularly found the edge - having him at first slip was worth a lot to us.

In his defence, you should include Watto's bowling figures with those innings.. compensates a bit for his average batting.

Yes, I know he's not bowling much at present.

In 2011 Watson took 11 wickets in 6 tests @ 19.
In 2012 Watson took 6 wickets in 6 tests @ 49.
In 2013 Watson has 1 wicket from 6 tests @ 88. (if there was a spew emoticon, I'd use it)

But these aren't Watson's first 31.

+ 1 bazillion.

And, btw, even Matt the Bat managed 1126 runs in his first 31 test digs @ 38.82.

 

[see_change]

Mark not in a position to comment on team and sorry if this takes the thread in a different way but

I remember as a Kid everyone seemed to be interested in Cricket . Part of the mystique was the sense that there was an inherent sense of honesty in the game.

" That's not Cricket " was a common phrase used if you felt someone was cheating.

Well now it is Cricket . Back then if there was a controversial decision people every one would have their own opinion and no one would really know what the truth was.

We have the situation recently ( can't remember who it was and can't be bothered googling which shows my level of interest ... ) where EVERY ONE knew the English batsman was out and his subsequent innings changed the match. The commentators and aussies where remarkably calm about it because that was the rules .

Well for me That's not cricket as far as I'm concerned and a possible reawakening interest in Cricket due to a lack of alternative programing on TV has died for the moment .

Cliff

 

[MarkB]

@ SC

I'm just here dude you don't have to yell....

That was Stuart Broad in the first test. He hit the ball with the full face of the bat to slip, but was given not out. And we couldn't appeal the decision ad we had already used our two reviews up. We went onto lose the test by a lot less than that decision cost us in runs. And while the catch to slip was as clear as the nose on my face, I agree with his decision not to walk. There are neutral umpires after all.

But that's cricket*. Imo we actually didn't deserve to win that test anyway (our top 6 didn't contribute more than 165 in either innings).

Obviously the Decision Review System (DRS) has some issues (poor Usman last night) - but that doesn't alter the fact that we still need to play better cricket (though yesterday was promising).

*Like how, 20 years ago, poor Craig McDermott, the last man in, was given out caught behind off the bowling of Courtney Walsh. We lost that test by 1 run (if we had won that test, it also meant we won the series). TV replays showed he didn't hit it. But you've got to play the whistle (or "the finger" in this case).

 

[vbplease]

I heard the other day that we were so good in the late 90s and 00s because the amount of money that was put into sports due to the Olympic games was astronomical. Perhaps we had inflated expectations due to $$$ being applied to sports science etc.

The UK’s performance in the London Olympics along with their pounds invested is another example of this.. Although I think money only goes so far.. In the sports that I follow (triathlon and cycling), reading what training the Brownlees, Hoy, Wiggins would do is nothing short of phenomenal.. These guys won their gold well before the opening ceremony – they only needed to show up to collect them.

I think cricket is slightly different in the way that mental toughness on the day plays a massive role. Confidence can be lost relatively quickly.. Back in 05 seeing the quality of Hayden, Ponting, Hussey, Gilly etc totally lose confidence was cringe worthy.. I cringed when the new ball came out, cringed when the bowlers maintained their line and length, then turned the tv off when the reverse swing started..

Sports psychology could be the new thing? Based on past performance “the missile” should have won gold, we should have won the 05 ashes, etc.

Our current team could do with something hardening up, I agree Mark, I think Watson definitely has the talent but is a bit, soft, ill disciplined, and mixed up with his 20/20 vs test technique.. He should have done his homework too