Thriving on Minimum Wage
- Thread starter kathryn d
- Start date
Thats a wonderful story Penny.
For myself, in my younger days i just used to spend 30% of whatever i make.
This provided the inspiration to increase my income. The 70% went into savings.
In the early days it was quite hard, especially against friends who were spending everything they made. But i tried partially making up for it by holding a full time accounting job and then several part time under the counter jobs at night. This greatly supplimented the income, but my social life was rather limited.
Saved for several years, quit the accounting job and went into business. Still maintained the 30/70 split.
These days most of the income is investment income of one form or another
I now spend around 40% of what i make (getting lazy
. And its a reasonable life (spend around $100k a year).
So yes there are many pathways,
but my opinion: look at ways of increasing the income and start saving when younge, rather than live like a pauper for the majority of ones life.
We only have one shot at this thing called life, make the most of it.
Best of luck.
For myself, in my younger days i just used to spend 30% of whatever i make.
This provided the inspiration to increase my income. The 70% went into savings.
In the early days it was quite hard, especially against friends who were spending everything they made. But i tried partially making up for it by holding a full time accounting job and then several part time under the counter jobs at night. This greatly supplimented the income, but my social life was rather limited.
Saved for several years, quit the accounting job and went into business. Still maintained the 30/70 split.
These days most of the income is investment income of one form or another
I now spend around 40% of what i make (getting lazy
. And its a reasonable life (spend around $100k a year).So yes there are many pathways,
but my opinion: look at ways of increasing the income and start saving when younge, rather than live like a pauper for the majority of ones life.
We only have one shot at this thing called life, make the most of it.
Best of luck.
why? because not everyone wants to act like some sort of mixture of slumdog millionaire combined with the extreme rationing of a bangladeshi mother in law.
Why does it have to be extreme rationing? Why can't the inspiration be in growth?
Isnt that the Western dream?
Fortunately we still live in a Western country. Yes savings are required, but there is no need (however there is choice as you have alluded to) to have to live ones life like an impoverished 3rd world citizen just to get ahead in life.
In a Western country, the first secret to wealth creation, is to figure out how you get off that minimum wage level.
For most this would involve some form of education or training. For those for which this is not a possibility i provided an dubious 'alternative' method in a prior post.
In which ever case, the opportunity to create a 'better life for tomorrow' is still characterised in my opinion by an increase in the 'net income' effect.
This way one can still have a life and yet still save for ones future. ie some form of life vs savings balance.
Sorry kathryn did you start this thread for people to make you feel better or, being that is a discussion forum, for discussion ? People simple offered very simple risk free and valid alternatives to your suggestions, surely as an intelligent person you both expected this and can accept this ?
It's not unusual for a couple of friends new into the rental market to rent together, we've rented a couple of places over the years to young couples or friends; the friends would obviously split the rental costs.
I've known of a friends son who rented a 4x2 through someone they knew and essentially lived there rent free as the other three paid his way, he then saved his money and used that to buy his own first entry level property and moved in with mates a few years later
Other friends when we were younger bought thier PPoR and rented rooms to assit with the mortgage. One place had a couple in each room as the area was for seasonal work, so 6 months with the rooms full then quiet..they then paid a small storage fee to keep their gear there and retain the room for the ensuing 6 months...last I heard this guy had bought a caravan park in QLD or NSW
Yes, Kathryn, I'm also disgusted at the bitterness.
Jaycee, from what I've read you have been one of the main contenders abusing just for the sake of abusing. It is OK to disagree with someone. You don't have to get so emotionally charged with people that don't agree with you.
For the record, I haven't read half of what has been posted here, and I missed all the stuff that Kathryn deleted too, so there was probably some juicey stuff that I missed out on. I don't agree with everything that Kathryn posts, nor everything that every other person posts.
Our investing career started years ago when we were living on much less than the minimum wage, so although we don't go to the extremes that Kathryn & Bob do in their quest to get ahead (these days) I certainly understand it. It is their choice to live as they do & I'm sure that as they pay down more of their IPs then they will have more finance available to increase their standard of living.
Although retired, their retirement is not what some of the SSers would consider retirement, but lets just stand back and take a look at what they have achieved. Here we have a couple that has been able to kiss the JOB away for good and see another part of the world for what is it? Six to eight months of the year? Wow! In all reality they are kind of doing the holiday/backpacking thing as adults rather than teens/young 20's.
Living in other people's homes or working in the outback, it doesn't matter. They get to explore this country probably at a much more intimate level than many that have lived here our whole lives. Just because they are not following the same route as others really does not give us the right to criticise their way of life.
If they are not doing anything illegal, immoral or hurting others, then good on them. I think sometimes there are way too many of us sitting here with our higher than minimum wage jobs, sitting in our ivory towers (and a damn lot that have never really lived on even an average wage, rather than minimum) that we forget that retireing is actually living your life the way you want to live it, without the need to answer to a boss.
For most of us, this means a much, much larger income. And you know what, I agree, I've struggled in the past. Big struggles, and HAD to live a life of doing without a LOT of stuff. I don't want to EVER do that again, so my answer for the moment is to just keep plugging away at my investing and plough as much $$ as I can into paying off non-deductable debt etc, that will give me the life I want to live but Bob and Kathryn are happy doing what they are doing, so lets just let them DO IT without ridicule and accept that this is who they are.
As for the MANY, posters that continually keep on keeping on that people on a minimum wage should just get over themselves and get a better job, well here's a dose of reality for you. There are hundreds and thousands of people in this country on minimum wage jobs. Can they all get better pay? Of course not! SOMEBODY has to do the work they do. Some are only young just starting out and getting experience, so they may move on up the payscale, but many are not. Some of them are just happy that they've got a job at all.
Just because YOU won't get out of bed for low wages does not mean that someone else won't.
skater, do you see the irony in defending the one person in this thread who got so emotionally charged they spat the dummy and deleted all their posts?
I have personally seen first hand what it takes to get what Kathryn is suggesting. My ex-girlfriends mum took in boarders (international students) and did exactly what Kathryn suggests. It's an almost 24/7 job, literally. She would come around to her home (she lived in a rental with the boarders) at 10 or 11 at night, because she rarely had time at any other time to visit. I went around to the place she was renting out... yikes.... not a pretty picture, let me tell you.
How many people realistically can or would want to live such a lifestyle? She did this full time, by the way. She wasn't working on top of all that. So can it be done? Sure. Can it be done on the level Kathryn is suggesting? Unlikely. This is coming from someone who has seen it firsthand, not on the outside looking in. There are many much, much easier ways of increasing income for those on minimum wage. That's not criticising Kathryn, that's just straight out fact.
Sure, we need people to do the minimum wage type jobs, but Kathryn was addressing those that want to get ahead, not every single person on minimum wage.
Not at all. There was a heck of a lot of 'noise' in the posts that I read. All were very negative and some downright nasty.
I've seen it work and I've seen it not work. It's not something I'd like to do, but it IS something that does work for some.
It's like saying "My friend bought an IP. They had tenants from hell, trashed it & never paid rent." Yikes.....not a pretty picture.....don't do it.
Again, horses for courses. Not every single person on a minimum wage, looking to get ahead, should take in boarders. BUT, I think we need to acknowledge that it is a relevant stategy for some of them, and heck, I don't know the percentage, it could be as low as only 1%.
At the end of the day, no matter what income level you are on, if you are looking to raise this then you will find that there are many things that someone can do. None of these are suitable to all and if taking in boarders rocks your boat, then so be it.
Why is this such a contentious issue?
I think Penny's story was great and now I will post one that is probably a bit opposite to it.
My uncle (dad's brother) migrated to Australia in his early 20s due to conflict in his home country. He had no qualification or real skills to speak of. He got married and worked as a machine operator in a factory. His wife was not in paid employment.
He worked very long hours and saved pretty much every cent he could. They had three children. My uncle started buying investment properties in the western suburbs of Melbourne. It seems like this became like an addiction to him. Growing up, I didn't see much of him. Most times we visited his family, he was either in bed (from working night shift), at work or getting ready to leave for work. He lived in a modest three bedroom house, which he still lives in today, and drives the same car I think he has for almost him entire life, a very old Kingswood. He doesn't travel or even go on any outings or anything.
I would guess he now has between 25 and 30 investment properties. However, soon after he started acquiring them, his mental health went downhill. He became so consumed with it all that he could not do much else. There have been cases where he came close to causing serious car accidents by braking randomly in the middle of the road because he saw a "for sale" sign in front of a house. This obsession somehow lead to him developing some kind of paranoid schizophrenia.
The stress and anxiety of this culminated in him having a brain aneurysm about two years ago. He underwent hospital treatment and was then transferred to a rehab centre. One day, he walked out of the centre without anyone noticing. His family were beside themselves with worry. Less than a day after he escaped, police found him walking barefoot down a highway. His feet were all bloodied and bruised but apparently, he didn't take much notice. He was very lucky that he didn't get hit by a car. Apparently he was trying to walk 25km back home.
Today, not much has changed. One of his sons has married and started a family. His two other adult children live with them in their home. He has pretty much become a recluse as he is no longer allowed to work. He doesn't leave the house for pretty much anything. Thankfully, his wife is able to get out every now and then as her children drive her places (she doesn't have a license). I just think it is incredibly sad that such a hard-working guy is now in his 60s, has millions of dollars of assets and has had no real quality of life. I feel sorry for his wife too as she just feels powerless in the whole situation. I do hope he "clicks" sometime in the future as is at least able to enjoy some aspect of all his work.
His experience had definitely made me ensure that I always strive for balance in what I do and not to become too consumed with making/saving money. A fun and happy life is just as important.
My uncle (dad's brother) migrated to Australia in his early 20s due to conflict in his home country. He had no qualification or real skills to speak of. He got married and worked as a machine operator in a factory. His wife was not in paid employment.
He worked very long hours and saved pretty much every cent he could. They had three children. My uncle started buying investment properties in the western suburbs of Melbourne. It seems like this became like an addiction to him. Growing up, I didn't see much of him. Most times we visited his family, he was either in bed (from working night shift), at work or getting ready to leave for work. He lived in a modest three bedroom house, which he still lives in today, and drives the same car I think he has for almost him entire life, a very old Kingswood. He doesn't travel or even go on any outings or anything.
I would guess he now has between 25 and 30 investment properties. However, soon after he started acquiring them, his mental health went downhill. He became so consumed with it all that he could not do much else. There have been cases where he came close to causing serious car accidents by braking randomly in the middle of the road because he saw a "for sale" sign in front of a house. This obsession somehow lead to him developing some kind of paranoid schizophrenia.
The stress and anxiety of this culminated in him having a brain aneurysm about two years ago. He underwent hospital treatment and was then transferred to a rehab centre. One day, he walked out of the centre without anyone noticing. His family were beside themselves with worry. Less than a day after he escaped, police found him walking barefoot down a highway. His feet were all bloodied and bruised but apparently, he didn't take much notice. He was very lucky that he didn't get hit by a car. Apparently he was trying to walk 25km back home.
Today, not much has changed. One of his sons has married and started a family. His two other adult children live with them in their home. He has pretty much become a recluse as he is no longer allowed to work. He doesn't leave the house for pretty much anything. Thankfully, his wife is able to get out every now and then as her children drive her places (she doesn't have a license). I just think it is incredibly sad that such a hard-working guy is now in his 60s, has millions of dollars of assets and has had no real quality of life. I feel sorry for his wife too as she just feels powerless in the whole situation. I do hope he "clicks" sometime in the future as is at least able to enjoy some aspect of all his work.
His experience had definitely made me ensure that I always strive for balance in what I do and not to become too consumed with making/saving money. A fun and happy life is just as important.
I think the problem with this thread (and most of the others which turn nasty) is that people just keep on making the same argument over and over (from both sides).
My feeling is that I make a point in one post, I'll clarify the point in maybe one or two other posts, but there's not alot of point really continuing on if people disagree. Because to me, that is when it just ends up getting personal, because people feel that they have to win or have the last word.
I dont think there are any stupid people on somersoft. We understand the arguments that are being put forward, and if we dont agree with them, most people can put forward a counter argument. But to just go on and on (again from both sides) trying to justify a position to me is a bit useless and it means that there are multiple posts all saying pretty much the same thing, just getting more and more personal.
One of the disciplines of a productive forum is learning when to stop trying to win an unwinnable argument.
My feeling is that I make a point in one post, I'll clarify the point in maybe one or two other posts, but there's not alot of point really continuing on if people disagree. Because to me, that is when it just ends up getting personal, because people feel that they have to win or have the last word.
I dont think there are any stupid people on somersoft. We understand the arguments that are being put forward, and if we dont agree with them, most people can put forward a counter argument. But to just go on and on (again from both sides) trying to justify a position to me is a bit useless and it means that there are multiple posts all saying pretty much the same thing, just getting more and more personal.
One of the disciplines of a productive forum is learning when to stop trying to win an unwinnable argument.
My point was simple. I work hard and made sacrifices to make more money so I could live a more comfortable life. That is my choice. I lived on nothing for 3 years and then minimum wage for 2. It was a poor life and one that I don't want to ever go back to. If I want some raspberries u will get some. Not whatever half rotten fruit is cheapest.
To make out that your way is the only way before throwing a tantrums is just rude and immature.
To make out that your way is the only way before throwing a tantrums is just rude and immature.
My point is that many on this forum are of such an age and economic position as to have become detached from what it is to be a less advantaged or young person in todays housing market to a degree that is disgusting.
I think that many of the people on this forum think that they are brilliant property investors who entirely deserve the hundreds of thousands or millions in equity that their portfolio give them, and somehow did this on their own steam. My opinion is entirely the opposite.
I think that the reason that many on this forum have success in property investment is because they were of the right age, in the right place, at the right time.
We have never had a housing market upswing as pronounced as that that began in the early 90s. The Australian housing market has never, ever reached such heights. Property investors have never, ever made so much money.
The real reason for this apparent success is loose financial policy on behalf of banks and government in that period.
Think about it. If you bought something, ANYTHING, from about 1995 until 2005 you were guaranteed massive CG. You could leverage that CG and buy another, then another, then another property as the upswing continued, and wake up in 2012 on this forum with a property portfolio full of houses and an ego full of hot air.
IF, HOWEVER you were not of sufficient age to begin purchasing in that 10-15 year period and were born a first home buyer today, it is infinitely more difficult for you to get ahead because we aren't going to see these dizzying property rises. We don't have this loose financial and government policy helping people along. And so people who are of first home buying age today have the deck totally and completely stacked against them.
So what bothers me about this entire thread is that people have lost sight of the vastly different circumstances that apply to people today that did not apply to them when they were the same age/had the same ambition - and I sincerely believe that many on this forum do not understand how soul crushing it is for the less advantaged out there. Then to add insult to injury, there is this "I worked hard when I was young, if you work hard, you can do it too!" attitude.
Newsflash for you: YOU CAN'T.
Many of my friends are suffering clinical depression because of the cost of housing. Many are unable to leave home. Many have been saving a deposit for literally years for a house with goalposts that keep moving further and further away. Have you wondered what that would feel like? Have you wondered what it feels like to be a single parent working 40 hours a week and having to pay more than half your after tax income to rent a 35 year old 2BR unit from your parents, when your parents BUILT AND PAID OFF the entire block of 6 units by making the same sacrifice in after tax income?
So in saying that, I agree with the original poster - I am also disgusted by some of the attitudes here. Many in this forum think that it is okay to let the young or less advantaged live like dogs so that they may be rich in property and have a good life, without ever putting themselves in the others shoes and asking how they would have done or felt if in the same circumstance.
Live in the den and drink watered down milk. My God.
I think that many of the people on this forum think that they are brilliant property investors who entirely deserve the hundreds of thousands or millions in equity that their portfolio give them, and somehow did this on their own steam. My opinion is entirely the opposite.
I think that the reason that many on this forum have success in property investment is because they were of the right age, in the right place, at the right time.
We have never had a housing market upswing as pronounced as that that began in the early 90s. The Australian housing market has never, ever reached such heights. Property investors have never, ever made so much money.
The real reason for this apparent success is loose financial policy on behalf of banks and government in that period.
Think about it. If you bought something, ANYTHING, from about 1995 until 2005 you were guaranteed massive CG. You could leverage that CG and buy another, then another, then another property as the upswing continued, and wake up in 2012 on this forum with a property portfolio full of houses and an ego full of hot air.
IF, HOWEVER you were not of sufficient age to begin purchasing in that 10-15 year period and were born a first home buyer today, it is infinitely more difficult for you to get ahead because we aren't going to see these dizzying property rises. We don't have this loose financial and government policy helping people along. And so people who are of first home buying age today have the deck totally and completely stacked against them.
So what bothers me about this entire thread is that people have lost sight of the vastly different circumstances that apply to people today that did not apply to them when they were the same age/had the same ambition - and I sincerely believe that many on this forum do not understand how soul crushing it is for the less advantaged out there. Then to add insult to injury, there is this "I worked hard when I was young, if you work hard, you can do it too!" attitude.
Newsflash for you: YOU CAN'T.
Many of my friends are suffering clinical depression because of the cost of housing. Many are unable to leave home. Many have been saving a deposit for literally years for a house with goalposts that keep moving further and further away. Have you wondered what that would feel like? Have you wondered what it feels like to be a single parent working 40 hours a week and having to pay more than half your after tax income to rent a 35 year old 2BR unit from your parents, when your parents BUILT AND PAID OFF the entire block of 6 units by making the same sacrifice in after tax income?
So in saying that, I agree with the original poster - I am also disgusted by some of the attitudes here. Many in this forum think that it is okay to let the young or less advantaged live like dogs so that they may be rich in property and have a good life, without ever putting themselves in the others shoes and asking how they would have done or felt if in the same circumstance.
Live in the den and drink watered down milk. My God.
If that's the case, I do apologise for abusing.
I certainly didn't mean to and felt I was only responding to what you're talking about from kathryn & bob, but that's besides the point.
jaycee, no need to apologise, mate. People that get upset or offended do so because they choose to. If we all chose not to express ourselves because someone might be 'offended' by something we say, no one would say anything, ever.
Here:
Here:
I think I tried to respond without being emotionally offensive and actually bob was more ridiculing of others and taunting, but then..... skater said so.......jaycee, no need to apologise, mate. People that get upset or offended do so because they choose to. If we all chose not to express ourselves because someone might be 'offended' by something we say, no one would say anything, ever.
Here:
Im one of these posters.
Now, what sort of job can I get if i was on the minimum wage, but PREPARED to work harder, lets see.
Casino Dealer, Night shift worker, Stop/Go Man/Lady on roadworks sites es onpecially weekends, brickies labourer, any type of labourer, plaster jockey, pokies attendent, courier. there's plenty more.
All the above would be an extra 20k on minimum wagee, 40k for the sto/go person.
Go down to the desal plant and do cleaning for 75K a year, go to WA mines and earn 85K as a cleaner.
Now how do I get these jobs?? Motivation,Asking around etc.
I think I tried to respond without being emotionally offensive and actually bob was more ridiculing of others and taunting, but then..... skater said so.......
agreed, my spelling and geography was picked on, nopt my constructive answer which I believe is a viable alternative
that is what I read too.
Being able to take a job like this depends on your circumstances. In my own situation, childcare options limited my working to a standard Mon-Fri 40 hr week... in which case, having a boarder was the easiest and best option and worked well for me.
Other options may suit other people - we are all different.
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