Tony Abbott talking about mandatory drug testing for dole recipients

[DavidMc]

David
I agree with you that its a health issue and there's avenues that it could be addressed similar to what you mention.
I disagree that it being a health issue has anything to do with the pros/cons of making unemployed people accountable for getting themselves into the workforce.

The real question here is, if you cut off peoples welfare income, would that result in:

a) a net rise in employment (and money saving, over and above the cost of implementing such a system) -or-
b) a net rise in homelessness and crime (the cost of which is greater than the welfare payment itself - police, prisons, court system, mental health care, harm to victims, etc)?
c) both a & b (and therefore widening the gap)

I think b.

I agree that we should make people accountable for getting themselves into the workforce. The question is 'how?'. I think cutting off payments is the wrong way to do it. We need to explore those other avenues in point 1 - decriminalisation (tax revenues), (to fund) rehabilitation programs and so on.

 

[cimbom]

If folks liked being overweight, there would be no endless reams of Jenny Craig, Lite and Easy etc ads on the teev, with a billion dollar industry behind them.

The overweight folks eventually become resigned to it and give up - look at Magda Zubanski lately - huge Jenny disciple and student for a while, but is now as big as she ever was...

It becomes too hard a fight, and the effort to lose the weight or to keep slim can be daunting - going for a run, riding a bike etc. Even a walk at a very fast pace - but folks wander along in slow-motion.

The reality is our lifestyles have changed a lot since I was a kid (I'm 53).

There was next to zero takeaway food, very little food was really processed, or even packaged. We lived on sausages with mashed potatoes and veggies, or lamb chops with home made chips and veggies. Dessert was the occasional trifle or pudding mum made, or weetbix, or toast or fruit salad we had to make. There was no soft drink - water or milk, or occasionally cordial.

There was no technology to sit and watch/play - only tv if you even had one, and probably black and white for most kids..

Kids rode bikes everywhere or walked - now you see virtually empty streets.

Adults these days are not much better - the takeaway breakfast market for eg; booming now. Things like "UP and GO" drinks, Maccas drive through brekkies, and so on....loading up on sugar all day long, and not working it off because we sit in a car/train/bus/tram and then in an office etc....unless you're a tradie or similar - most of them are in decent shape.

Strangely; Council workers are often big fat blobs. Curious...

It's all our own choice - many blame "poor genes"...that's crap - when I was a kid, the majority of folks were thin. Now the majority are overweight and worse; genes can't change that much in two generations, folks.

I had a lady come in a few weeks ago for a puncture repair, told her it would take about an hour to fix. She was very, very overweight, about 45 years old.

She had a dog in the car, it was a lovely day, so I suggested she might like to take the dog for a walk along the foreshore while she waited...

Her response was; "Can I leave the dog in the car while it's here with you? I'll go and get a coffee and read a magazine."

Nothing wrong with that activity - we all do it - but you get what I mean. There went a perfect opportunity to do something for her body.

I'll wager there was some cake with that coffee.

Obesity is a lifestyle issue. Going to the gym or going for a walk for the sole purpose of exercise is not sustainable for most people. The thing that is missing in most people's lifestyles is incidental exercise - that is, exercise during our normal daily activities. Walking to the shops instead of driving, walking to the bus/train station instead of driving there, walking to complete other daily errands, etc. That way, you can't say the weather isn't nice or you don't feel like it today or some other excuse because those things still have to be done.

I read an article by Michelle Bridges a while back where she was surprised by how hard it was to find gyms while on holiday in Italy. People over there generally walk enough in their day to day life that they don't need to set aside time to go the gym and walk on a treadmill. This is pretty consistent in all countries with lower obesity rates. It's easier to just go after McDonald's or chocolate or some other food item and say they're the cause rather than making drastic changes to our suburbs and lifestyles.

 

[tobe]

lifestyles have certainly changed since bayview was a kid. Diets have changed radically too. Id say part of the 'lifestyle choice' is influenced by the cheap availability of high density food.


Been into a service station recently? Its like a tiny window in between snacks the till operator stares out of. Is it peoples lifestyle choice that is influencing the product placement? Or is the product placement influencing the lifestyle choice?

 

[Angel]

According to The Guardian, and shared on face book by supporters of Labor, there was one Abbott daughter who received the scholarship and it was $60K altogether, not "per year".

 

[Hoffy]

According to The Guardian, and shared on face book by supporters of Labor, there was one Abbott daughter who received the scholarship and it was $60K altogether, not "per year".

I'm sure it was just an innocent error by David.

 

[Beanie Girl]

See that's the problem. It was never what you say it was. It was never "proposed" and it was never "mandatory drug testing for new start recipients". You seem to want to argue a philosophical view using exaggerated or purposely deceitful bogeymen as your means to make a point.

Hoffy, when you have to resort to 'name-calling', you've not only lost the argument, you've also lost respect.

 

[Hoffy]

Hoffy, when you have to resort to 'name-calling', you've not only lost the argument, you've also lost respect.

Couldn't agree more with you Beanie Girl. It's almost as bad as making up stuff to support your philosophical views.

Oh, by the way, can you point out where I indulged in name calling? If I've done it, I unreservedly apologise.

 

[gooram]

Here we go again with your "it should be fair for everyone" communist mantra again.

Should welfare recipients be able to spend money as they please?
No!
Because
a) Its tax payers money so there should be some input in how its used
B) its a safety net to allow people to get by whilst searching for a job asap. Not for them to sit around being druggies with.
C) their full time occupation should be finding a job and drugs dont assist in this endeavour
D) other occupations require drug testing, bludger can be on that list too

This is lunacy.

Lot's of things people do, don't assist in finding jobs, but also cost money. What other freedoms would you choose to limit for welfare recipients? Junk food?

Or is it just the legality that you have a problem with? So any run-in with the law should result in payments being suspended?

 

[The Fence]

What other "freedoms" eh...?

It is not a freedom to choose to be a bludger on the dole whilst taking drugs.

For heck sake, what are you banging on about protecting the welfare cheats/lazy SOB's...?

 

[HotRod]

This is lunacy.

Lot's of things people do, don't assist in finding jobs, but also cost money. What other freedoms would you choose to limit for welfare recipients? Junk food?

Or is it just the legality that you have a problem with? So any run-in with the law should result in payments being suspended?

But to do those things over and above the bare necessities of sustaining life, which don't assist in finding jobs, should not be borne by the tax payer.

If they want:

internet
mobile phone
booze
fags
new clothes
eat out
pets

they should get a job.

The basic requirements to sustain life:

food
water
heating
roof over head
health
ability to travel
basic land-line
etc

should be the basic requirements funded by government (via taxes from tax payers)

 

[pully]

so depressing to read some of the comments. will we ever get back to a time when work is not optional ?
lack of money will motivate people to work. people will take pride in achieving a safe and secure life for themselves?

welfare dependency is not healthy for individuals or communities. many with disabilities do work it adds structure and purpose.

some have said if welfare money is withheld crime will escalate. well that is already happening. might be worth a trial. many just know how to work the system at present.

 

[The Fence]

The criminal element will always exploit any loophole remotely left open and then build upon that.

Bring it on Mr Abbott. What you were elected for IMHO.

Certainly shaking things (mainly lefties) up that's for sure. Love it!

Keep up the good work.

It's not like he is asking the lower socio economic to give us all a free ride.
Its the exact opposite. FFS !

 

[Beanie Girl]

Some reflective thoughts on Rod's posts

But to do those things over and above the bare necessities of sustaining life, which don't assist in finding jobs, should not be borne by the tax payer.

If they want to find a job and keep physically and mentally healthy:

internet - jobs are advertised on the internet. Cannot apply for a job without the internet nowadays. Internet can enable one to send hundreds of job applications by email and cv attachment without spending money on stamps. Internet makes it inexpensive to apply for jobs. (job aid)

mobile phone - prepaid mobile can be cheaper than landline. Prospective employers need to be able to reach you by phone anytime even if you pop out to the supermarket for food for half an hour. Connects you with friends & family. Not so isolated. (job aid)

booze - I don't drink but I won't deny a bloke a beer now and then or a drink with his friends at the local pub to lift his spirits & self-esteem. (mental health when done in moderation)

fags - I don't smoke but i heard nicotine withdrawal can make one cranky. I'd rather give people access & means to buy a few fags than them going berko & robbing or hitting someone over the head for a few ciggies. (keep community safe)

new clothes - can't look like a vagabond when you're fronting a prospective employer for a new job (job aid)

eat out - a Macca's chicken fillet burger is infinitely more nutritious than 2 minute noodles which is full of MSG or canned spam. yeeks!
(physical health)

pets - If they keep a pet and lose their job, do you expect them to put their much loved pet down? A small cat or dog provides loving companionship and can be inexpensive to keep. Staves lonelinesss away, keeps spirits up whilst looking for that elusive job, health benefits when you walk a dog. Connects you with other people in the dog community. (mental and physical health)

they should get a job. (Totally agree, with some help from the above is good)

The basic requirements to sustain life:
can be seriously impacted if welfare payments are cut off, even a week can have detrimental consequences in affording the basic necessities

food
water
heating
roof over head
health - worry, fear and anxiety can impact health in the mind-body connection
ability to travel on bus/tram/train/car for job interviews
basic land-line - prepaid mobile is better
etc

 

[datto]

The sooner they get rid of Abbott the better. Bring on that other clown what's his name, oh yeah, bull turner. Let's see what bright ideas he's got. Lol. Libs, they're on a self destruct mission by the looks of it.

 

[D.T.]

Lol
You guys be crazy

 

[Hoffy]

The sooner they get rid of Abbott the better. Bring on that other clown what's his name, oh yeah, bull turner. Let's see what bright ideas he's got. Lol. Libs, they're on a self destruct mission by the looks of it.

Still more than 2 years until your opinion matters again. It's going to be a long wait for you datto

 

[HotRod]

Some reflective thoughts on Rod's posts

Fair points.

Maybe all those "extras" could come out of a very basic cash component over and above the paid for by government basics.

But, again, you start making things too cushy and what is the incentive to find work.

Internet - go to your local library
phone - paid for basic phone be it mobile or land line
eat out - could be covered by basic food stamps (can be used for fresh or very basic fast food)
etc

This would apply for people who should get are job and are able bodied. Those with health issues (mental, mobility, vision etc), well they obviously should be supported by government health. But again, finding a job does wonders for people's health and self esteem.

 

[HotRod]

Still more than 2 years until your opinion matters again. It's going to be a long wait for you datto

Just came across a leaked picture for Labor's next election campaign:

 

[BMW]

a lot of talk on this thread about incentives for people on the dole to get a job but with the minimum wage going up today are there businesses out there that will employ these people at $16 an hour? are they being priced out of the market?

 

[datto]

Still more than 2 years until your opinion matters again. It's going to be a long wait for you datto

LOL...ever heard of a double dissolution?

Yeah you're right coz Libs won't have the knackers to bring on an early one. The have already shown their true colours.