Unquestioned belief - Cars

[The Y-man]

The point with a car in Tokyo is that the cost of the car is parking it, it costs me $350month for a machine car park, for a flat concrete spot it would cost me $700month. The point being if you are going to the trouble of having a car, parking it and driving it around, toll-way costs etc then buying a better car doesnt cost that much more.

Thanks A.L. Forgot about those things (haven't been there for a while) Seem to recall toll booths every couple of km's on the (not so) "kou-soku" tollways.

Cheers,

The Y-man

 

[voodoo]

HI AL.

Yes I'm sure.. an older car with a few upgraded components can be very reliable, but requires the addition of electronic ignition (simple upgrade), an electric fan, an integrated alternator, rebuillt engine, a good quality modern battery.

Buying an old car out of the Trading Post and expecting it to be reliable is, of course, unrealistic. There IS a maintenance overhead, but it becomes a pleasure, its not for everyone as I said in my first post.

My first car was an EH holden $600 and the motor was in bits on the floor, I had to rebuild it. Then a V8 Torana, V8 Vc commodore, V6 VR commodore and now a V6 VX commodore.

I would never want to own an old car again.

I don't touch my car at all now, it goes in for regular services by the book and thats how i like it.

I have a commodore work ute and it had a service at 1500km and thats it until 30,000km. (by the book) reliable vehicle.

regards

 

[duncan_m]

My first car was an EH holden $600 and the motor was in bits on the floor, I had to rebuild it. Then a V8 Torana, V8 Vc commodore, V6 VR commodore and now a V6 VX commodore.

A well maintained EH Holden with a well rebuilt engine and upgraded ignition etc would be extremely reliable.

The most unreliable car I've ever owned was a 5L VR Ute, it had an intermittent fault in the electronics that took 6 months to resolve, it was towed 4 times, whenever it got to the dealer it was fine.. I owned it for 18months and lost $10K in value on it. Then a progression of crappier and crappier brand new Commodores, windows that wouldnt unwind, trim that fell off, locks that wouldnt work, centralised locking that often didnt unlock some of the doors, and all the time wearing huge depreciation.

I never want to own a car with complex systems again.. I want simplicity, maintainability, reliability and longevity.

 

[always_learning]

Dare I say, that your fault lie in the selection of new car's, here's a tip, if it is made in Australia it is has a greater chance of being complete crap.

Buy a Japanese car made in Japan, be bored to death by the boring grey trim that stays on year after year, be bored by the engine that always starts, be bored by the less than interesting design but never goes out of style (because it was never in style) be bored by all the gadgets that work year after year.

 

[duncan_m]

Buy a Japanese car made in Japan, be bored to death by the boring grey trim that stays on year after year, be bored by the engine that always starts, be bored by the less than interesting design but never goes out of style (because it was never in style) be bored by all the gadgets that work year after year.

I dont disagree

The most reliable car I ever had was a little 2L 2WD Hilux Ute.. nice simple engine, no gadgets, no power windows, AM radio only.. Almost a classic.

 

[astroboy]

What a way to make a quid! Rent out a few sq mtrs of concrete with no power, plumbing, floor coverings or any of the trappings we would need to provive in an IP for not much less.

Your task now, AL is to set up a company and we will all (I would anyway) invest in a parking lot. Easy money! You, of course, could park at a small discount

Actually this is quite common in the major metros Thommo, and they trade regularly as well. Obviously a new concept for the far north, maybe you could get ahead of the crowd.
Unfortunately I think they may already have the jump on you.
Damn not understanding that science thing !!!
astroboy

 

[Bill.L]

Hi all,

Off topic,

Astro, give it a rest, Thommo is a conservative investor near(or in, can't remember) retirement. You have the advantage of youth to allow for any mistakes. Do you have anything constructive to add to this thread other than picking on Thommo??

On topic,
A friend of mine was an engineer at ford a few years ago. I asked him about how they could get the cars to fall to pieces just after the warranty ran out. He laughed and claimed that as often as not they were amazed at how the cars lasted until the end of the warrenty.

bye

 

[likewow]

A well maintained EH Holden with a well rebuilt engine and upgraded ignition etc would be extremely reliable.

The most unreliable car I've ever owned was a 5L VR Ute, it had an intermittent fault in the electronics that took 6 months to resolve, it was towed 4 times, whenever it got to the dealer it was fine.. I owned it for 18months and lost $10K in value on it. Then a progression of crappier and crappier brand new Commodores, windows that wouldnt unwind, trim that fell off, locks that wouldnt work, centralised locking that often didnt unlock some of the doors, and all the time wearing huge depreciation.

I never want to own a car with complex systems again.. I want simplicity, maintainability, reliability and longevity.

Duncan,

You are forgetting constant problems with clutch, carbies, rust, gearbox (synchro). All problems with older cars that rarely occur these days. Ive always had a thing for European cars and when i was younger i had to buy cheaper ones. Boy, do i know about vehicle maintenance. Anyone that has owned and Alfa or British car made pre late 90s probably has an intimate relationship with their vehicle.
The German cars of the era (as now) were pretty good, but more expensive.

These days European cars are as reliable as Japanese cars - even the cheaper European models. I think the Japanese forced them to lift their game which everyone benefitted from, so now you can have quality and reliabilty for a relatively low price AND European flair.

 

[dwyerfam]

Could not agree with you more. Have been a fan of fully imported Japanese cars since 1976. 3 x new Honda Civics and a new Toyota Liteace Wagon since 1986. Still got the wagon, 18 years later! (1st it was the kids, now tools for reno makeovers! )

I picked up a 1970 Corolla for $100 (got it from my 'poor' tenant) and am slowly restoring it (i.e. like Duncan said, just need to replace those wore out parts etc).

 

[Sunfish]

AL is right about Jap cars. I've had Mazdas, Hondas and (jap) Mitsi's. They have all been good cars.

The Mazda 1500 and Datsun 1600 were the shots across the bow of Yank,Oz and Pom manufacturers to lift their game. Their build quality was better and they had the first overhead cam engines available to the masses. By contrast Commodore was still selling the only push-rod engine available here 40yrs later.

Hyundi may may now be the first Korean car to deserve equal respect. (not Kia but)

Just found this link: http://www.rallyscene.com/cms/A_100425/article.html

T

 

[duncan_m]

Clutch and carby can be upgraded and be reliable.. Rust is best prevented by buying a car relatively free of rust in the first place and maintaining it well. I'm not saying that old cars are more reliable than new cars, they aren't, thats obvious.

I'm saying that an old car thats had a range of components upgraded and which is well maintained can be as reliable as a new car and you save the on the massive depreciation. Not for everyone and it would pay to have some mechanical knowledge as I said at the start of the thread.

 

[The Y-man]

Buy a Japanese car made in Japan, be bored to death by the boring grey trim that stays on year after year, be bored by the engine that always starts, be bored by the less than interesting design but never goes out of style (because it was never in style) be bored by all the gadgets that work year after year.

....with the exception of when they try to do something a little different.

My fully imported Mitsubishi Galant VR4 back in the late 80's had an interesting array of problems including:
. Engine not always starting (CPU fault)
. A cam belt tensioner that had to be replaced twice in the 2 years I owned it, causing the cam belt to skip a notch or 2 (very exciting consequences)
. 2 gearbox rebuilds, including a 2 month wait for parts from Japan (VR4's had different gear ratio's to standard Galants), not to mention the fact that the front right suspension sub assembly had to be removed to access the gearbox. The synchros on 1st and 2nd kept dying, eventually grinding the dog clutches on the gears to zip.

Ok, so my car got driven hard - on rally cross and circuit events.

It was an interesting design mechanically (for it's time): a full time AWD with viscous limited slip central diff, 4W steer, a 2 litre straight 4 DOHC turbo engine. 0-100 in about 7.1 seconds (stock). A great car to drive at 160km/h plus on a dirt road.

I guess at the end of the day, it was not really a production car so much as a "homologation special".

The thing is, I am not so sure that the direct Japanese competitors of its time - the Subaru Liberty RS Turbo and the Toyota Celica GT4 - were having anywhere near the same amount of issues.

Maybe it is also telling in the WRC that Subaru to this day is highly competitive with the Impressa WRX, but Mitsubishi's Lancer Evo8.....

Cheers,

The Y-man

 

[Peter 14.7]

Duncan,

You are forgetting constant problems with clutch, carbies, rust, gearbox (synchro). All problems with older cars that rarely occur these days. Ive always had a thing for European cars and when i was younger i had to buy cheaper ones. Boy, do i know about vehicle maintenance. Anyone that has owned and Alfa or British car made pre late 90s probably has an intimate relationship with their vehicle.
The German cars of the era (as now) were pretty good, but more expensive.

These days European cars are as reliable as Japanese cars - even the cheaper European models. I think the Japanese forced them to lift their game which everyone benefitted from, so now you can have quality and reliabilty for a relatively low price AND European flair.

I am sitting here torn.... as I love my Alfa Romeo but frankly, it is not as good as a Japanese made and built car. I wish to God it was.

The leather smells great, the engine is rorty, the gearbox F1 paddle style fun, it looks so sexy in sheetmetal but quality control is not up to Japanese.

IMO it is not because they have crap quality like the old days, it is simply because they focus on design, power, driving thrill and items such as visors falling off, air bag lights going on and needing to be reset, oil lights activating when you brake hard, glove box locks failing, occasional drop out of gear in F1 mode, not happy to go when cold, and a turning circle like a truck is irrelevant (apparently) to Italians.

And as for Peugots, well, I know personally of some real lemons that simply systematically failed in every part. A Toyota would never do this. Also Mercedes can come from USA and South Africa now so be careful. The MC lass is not all class I hear.

If you want unbiased advice there is a book called the Lemon Guide which outlines in great detail, every model, it's faults, strengths and overall rating.

Buy an Alfa for passion and get the extended warranty to five years for peace of mind.

Peter 147

 

[Rolf Latham]

Hiya

Old Benzes and Pugs get my vote for long lived reliability.

Just have a look at any middle eastern country and there will a squillion old benzes, same as in many parts of africa the old 403s, 404 and 504s are very common

ta

rolf

 

[likewow]

I and sitting here torn as I love my Alfa Romeo but frankly, it is not as got as a Japanees made and built car. I wish to God it was.

The leather smells great, the engine is rorty, the gearbox F1 paddle style, is looks so sexy but quality control is not up to Japanese.

It is not because they have crap quality it is simply because they focus on design, power, driving thrill and items such as visors falling off, air bag lighting going on andneeding to be reset, oil lights activating when you brake hard, glove box locks failing, occasional drop out of gear in F1 mode, not happy to go when cold, turning circle like a truck is irrelevant to Italians.

And as for Peugots, well, I know personally of some real lemons that simply systematically failed in every part. A Toyota would never do this. Also Mercedes also come from USA and South Africa now so be careful.

If you want unbiased advice there is a book called the Lemon Guide which outlines in great detail, every model, it's faults, strengths, and overall rating.

Buy and Alfa for passion and get the extended warranty to five years.

Peter 147

If you think your Alfa is unreliable, you have no idea what its like to own a 1977 Alfetta or a '84 33, nothing less than diabolical. But when i used to get that 2 litre twin cam Alfetta on the cam around some bends, balancing the chassis on the throttle, it could raise the hair on the back of my neck, absolutely stunning................and then it would overheat and stop..............they used to call this stuff 'cars with character' and boy they had it in spades.

I remember dragging off 4.2 litre Toranas in 2 litre Triumph Dolomite Sprint that weighed about 900 kilos, the thing was a rocket but handled like a boat....when it was going.

Since Alfa was taken over by Fiat ive thought they have gained a lot of reliability but lost a lot of their character.(but still more then most cars, especially Japanese) I almost bought a 156 JTS a few years ago but it didnt do a lot for me, so i passed.

Not all Mercedes are made outside of Germany. Just as BMW, Volkswagen do they pick their models and make them off shore. (Usually non-core models, 4 wheel drives, vans and smaller models)

 

[Peter 14.7]

Hi Like wow.

You are right the old Alfa had "character" in spades. The new ones are still some of the best looking cars in the road IM Biased Opinion. The little details make all the difference. Polished handles, monogrammed headrest, etc.

As for an average BMW 3 series. To me it felt like a slow Toyota to drive. Underpowered and heavy. Against an ALfa 147 GTA!!! 185kw V6 driving the front wheels, lowered with Brembo brakes, 17 inch wheels.!! it is a no contest.

BTW I am pleased to say, so far, we have not had a serious problem and the dealer is happy as to take it back and fix the little bugs no argument ( unlike Subaru in Sydney CBD I might add).

According to the lemon guide the 5 best include the Hilus, Lexus IS 200. But if you drive for fun a Lexus is not going to cut it.

I would like to one day be in a positon to be able to justify owning a true toy that only gets out on the Weekend or a Racetrack. If that was the case only one car would suit..... Lotus Exige 141kw.

Peter 147

 

[likewow]

A Lotus Exige (or Elise) would be awesome as a 2nd (or third car). They are a true sports car in the British tradition. Light weight and heaps of power, would be like driving a high powered go kart.

I think your BMW-Alfa comparison is a bit unfair. Are you comparing the base 1.8L model 3 series (318i) with the very sporty Alfa 147GTA with the 3.2L V6. You should compare the GTA with maybe a BMW 330ci or even an m3, which would be unfair to the Alfa. By the way, the 3 series BMWs that come to Australia are made in South Africa.

Just as a point of interest that Alfetta i owned had the gearbox, clutch and diff all on the back axle with the rear disks inboard about 2 inches each side from the centre 'gearbox'. It made for a rubbery gear change (linkages to the back) but the even weight distribution was amazing and resulted in a perfect 50/50 front/rear balance.

I could talk cars all day but i think we are getting off topic here. Apologies for hijacking the thread guys, carry on

 

[Lplate]

Hiya

Old Benzes and Pugs get my vote for long lived reliability.

Just have a look at any middle eastern country and there will a squillion old benzes, same as in many parts of africa the old 403s, 404 and 504s are very common

ta

rolf

Rolf
I agree, however they are second to a Toyota Landcruiser.
Lplate

 

[Garry K]

Hi all, just back from holidays and catching up.

I noticed a few comments about the good old EH, which was my first car 30 years ago. I loved it, apart from burning out exhaust valves on route to Qld from Vic.

Last year i thought, gee it'd be nice to do up an EH and have for a weekend car.

Saw one in trading post, went and had a look. Very original, Great I thought.

Then took it for a test drive (not having driven an "old" car for a long time.

Things I forgot about:
corners like a truck
wanders all over the road
s...house brakes
no syncro in first
tricky to start
lousy ventilation/heater/demister

Thinks again....mmmm...maybe it's safer/easier to stick with newer cars.

Bought a motor bike instead.. Moto Guzzi California cruiser. Heaven. Beautiful Italian style, simple engine and out handles/brakes Harleys any day.

GarryK

 

[Aceyducey]

But didn't nostalgia use to be a great feeling back in the old days

Cheers,

Aceyducey