Unreliable tradies!

[turk]

dont worry about it, its no use debating, you are like those people that say because you were doing 1km over the limit you are responsible for killing a drunk driver who was doing 60km over the limit and should be sent to life in jail

im sure you do full criminal checks, credit checks, veda checks, 15 references, to get someone to collect your mail as well

this thread was about personal courtesy and a degree of professionalism, and not about whether a guy who doesnt tell me he doesnt have a pressure cleaner and turns up to a job

you seem to be those people that think two wrongs make a right,

as far as im aware I wasnt raised to not be courteous to people unless they were courteous to me

I'm an ex tradie and unprofessional tradies kept me in work, never considered two wrongs make a right and never over the top in checking references etc.

You are obviously courteous to your tradies, perhaps to much so, but professionalism works both ways and you seem to lack professionalism when employing people.

 

[TMNT]

I'm an ex tradie and unprofessional tradies kept me in work, never considered two wrongs make a right and never over the top in checking references etc.

You are obviously courteous to your tradies, perhaps to much so, but professionalism works both ways and you seem to lack professionalism when employing people.

Fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion,
and its good that unprofessional people make you a living

as for professionalism, maybe I am unprofessional,

However, if this is the case, I must know 100s of unprofessional people, I mean, put a simple job request up, people contact to accept the job, you say ok, and they come and do it. Who would have thought

 

[SamL]

TMNT, you have quoted 2 situations where you have been taken for a bit of a ride. I think you are going over the top with your arguments about the reference's thing. No you wouldn't go to that effort for a roof cleaner. But if you want someone professional you are better off hiring someone who presents themselves in a professional manner, which from what you describe neither of those two do. If I am paying a roof cleaner they have the gear to clean a roof. Also I am sorry but if someone can't organise their own transport, cigarettes and red bull I wouldn't expect them to know the first thing about professionalism.

Hiring a handyman (or just labour) with you supplying everything is not really the same as hiring someone who runs that as their business as a trades person.

 

[TMNT]

TMNT, you have quoted 2 situations where you have been taken for a bit of a ride. I think you are going over the top with your arguments about the reference's thing. No you wouldn't go to that effort for a roof cleaner. But if you want someone professional you are better off hiring someone who presents themselves in a professional manner, which from what you describe neither of those two do. If I am paying a roof cleaner they have the gear to clean a roof. Also I am sorry but if someone can't organise their own transport, cigarettes and red bull I wouldn't expect them to know the first thing about professionalism.

Hiring a handyman (or just labour) with you supplying everything is not really the same as hiring someone who runs that as their business as a trades person.

Yes you make a series of very valid points, congratulations

I do actually agree with you

In order to keep costs down for my projects I on top of hourly rates I always provide materials so I can keep a tab of whats going on and to avoid excessive mark ups but I never provide tools

This on top of my courteous nature might be the reason why in getting taken for a ride

Another example Was a builder who quoted a job, got started and about 60% of the way through just said I underquoted and said bad luck and walked off

This guy had done good work for me before but in hindsight I didn't check his builders license which was expired, and for this job I wasn't on site with him

It was a 10k labour only jobs it was not small

I've got a court date with him at ncat in a few weeks

 

[AJB]

please dont tell me you check the qualifications for some guy to clean the moss off your roof for a set fee which is done in 3 hours. I dont believe anyone that would check for a roof cleaner

you'd never get anything done in life

please dont tell me if you get someone to mow your lawns , you are going to check and call references, to see how good they were at checking the quality of the cut grass

in saying that, I understand what you are getting at, for large jobs I would check, this was by far a large job

so you'd never hire my dad who might have been in the trade for 30 years, but has recently retired and sold all his tools and decided to look for some side work because he was bored at home?

I think you missed the point! Sure check references for larger jobs, but you hired a tradesman who didn't even have the required tools. Using your example, If you needed your lawns mowed would you hire someone who said they used to do it as a profession but no longer have a lawn mower so you will need to hire one? Hire a true professional with all the required tools. It seems as though you may be opting for the cheapest option and are getting burned.
And for the record, no I wouldn't hire your dad if he didn't have the required tools for the job he needed to do!

 

[JDP111]

Experienced renovators or experts, lend me your wisdom!

Now we all know, generalisation I know, that tradies are unreliable, and so are young people and so are bogans,


Anyway, I'm at my Reno at the moment with two tradies working with me, now, there is the view of you pay peanuts, you get monkeys, however with tradies I've found it doesn't matter how much you pay

Out of the ten working days per week, for the two, I have on average 1.5 days per week not turning up,

In my years renovating, I've never met a bunch of people with so many health, personal, family, financial, issues

Just today a tradie called me at 11 for a 9am start because he slept in, and could he come in at 12

At 1230 he calls and says he can't make it because his mother has a doc appointment, and has to driver her cos she has lost her license to dui (so has he Btw)

I could fire him however it's near the end of the job and the hassle of finding another person who may be worse or have no idea what he's doing?

These days when someone calls and say story can't make it for whatever reason, I don't bother asking, I don't bother getting upset, I don t get annoyed, I just have come to accept it. It's almost these sort of issues are part of being a worker in this industry

Maybe this attitude of mine is indirectly encouraging them to be like this


How do you experienced ones handle this sort of situations

This is why I stick to property that does not have much work that needs to be done. Else, it kinda is pot luck. Just like all other services jobs - lawyers, real estate agents etc. Never really can tell even if you do reference checks.

 

[oc1]

I find I get the best out of trades when they are set up as a proper business with staff. The owner does work too but spends time co ordinating and overseeing operations as well. Took a while to work this out and while it's more expensive to build its also easier.

My pet hate with trades - starting one job to secure it and having a few on the go so they don't miss out. Your project them never finishes.

 

[economist99]

I wear a low cut top, make them tea, bring banana bread and pay in cash. I also talk to them as a person, ask about family we often have kids the same age.

A lot of it is luck but I use my instinct to recruit them and only get nice guys. Even if they're a bit slack at least they will tell me

"I have a bigger job 30min away and its more important"
"I wont come for the next week as another job is paying more" etc etc

They're all doing 10 job at once then a lot of them also surf and knock off at 3pm every day....I hate having them quote per hour, eg $40 then charge me $60 for, like, 4 hrs work. Makes me so angry...

 

[Steve R]

Speaking from both sides of the coin as a tradie and a builder/ project manager I can understand the frustration it causes when trades are unreliable.

With 30 years of experience behind me now I can appreciate the position project managers and trades are put in when unforeseeable circumstances arise. The good project managers that do this sort of work for a living already put in place contingencies for delays. Professional trades that work their craft for a living will almost certainly contact you to let you know what?s going on so you can make alternative arrangements.

The process for engaging the right trades that suit your expectations and construction project type doesn?t happen overnight. Regular consistent work coupled with paying on the agreed time will almost always guarantees a reliable trade. Of course however you will need to sift through some chaff to get the right ones. That?s just part of our industry, just like unprofessional cowboy trades are.

I also have had good and bad experience with engaging trades from sources such as the Yellow Pages and other internet based services. Again it?s a process and if you build or renovate for a living you just have to work through the process.

I will say though I am always astounded when I hear someone complain about a trade or their workmanship only to find they didn?t bother to check references or check their previous work. It is your responsibility as the project manager of your construction project, no matter how big or small it is to do due diligence and check up on possible trades. If you don't and problems arise then the blame game starts with you.

This is a must for me now and I ask the trade directly for references and previous work of theirs that I can assess. Usually asking this question is enough for me to sift through the ones not to bother with. If they um an ah about references or previous work then they don?t even get a look in. Professional trades that take pride in their craft have no issue with you viewing their previous work.

While this can be time consuming if you are serious about your role as the project manager of your building job then taking the time to assess them is just part and parcel of the role. If you only do 1 or 2 small jobs a year it is difficult to have enough work to keep consistency of good reliable trades, on the other hand you will have plenty of time to evaluate their previous work and work ethic.

When using the term ?tradie? do you include a handyman or laborer in this category? While a lot of handyman consider themselves ?tradies?, there not. A tradesman or tradie is someone that has qualified in their respective field of work. They know every aspect of it and have the years behind them to attest to it. A handyman is just that, ?handy? at doing bits and pieces of general building work. Don?t get me wrong, there are plenty of good handymen out there, but the ones I use are used for general handyman type of work. Also, laborers aren?t tradesmen either, at best I would only leave a laborer to do general onsite duties like cleaning up, digging holes or moving material. Remember, partial knowledge is one of the enemies of progress!

Inevitably a handyman gets themselves into trouble when they take on work that is beyond their capabilities and a laborer gets into trouble when too much is asked of them and their abilities. Generally speaking a laborer is only interested in payday so prior to payday they will agree to do almost anything to appease you to get to their goal of getting money.

My 2 cents worth, employ the right trade for the job you want done, check their references and previous work, be upfront with them and let them know what your expectations are. Factor in for delays, let them know that you?re ok with them not being able to make it due to scheduling issues, but stipulate they need to give you appropriate notice. On the flip side of that you should let them know if you experience delays as well. It?s a 2 way street.

Paying cash on the day or trying to screw a trade a few dollars also can lead to problems. A professional trade doesn?t mind waiting until the end of their job to get paid. A trade that feels they have had to do the work under financial pressure will end up taking out their frustrations on your project either abandoning the job when they feel they have been compensated for the amount of money paid versus the amount of work done or just not turning up.

I wouldn?t under any circumstance pay a trade 50% of their money once they have only completed 50% of their work. That has disaster written all over it. It is however perfectly acceptable and common place to pay for stages of work. For example I would pay a house framer once they had all of the exterior walls up, plumbed and straitened and ready for the roof trusses, just for that stage of works only and then pay them the final payment once the roof trusses were on.
No trade enjoys finishing off the work of a disgruntled former trade and you will pay the price at the end of the day.

 

[boeman]

Excellent post and I know 100% what you are saying as I too am a registered builder who started as a bricklayer.

Hiring a bad tradesperson leaves one person to blame, and it isn't the tradesperson.

 

[Melbournian]

there will be unrealiable trades and reliable trades.

i had a painter which i have used many many times and still do

for renos or day to day stuff, electricians and plumbers - i normally don't bother as long as they give me a plumbing or electrical certificate (and state they would finish the work by x date it is pretty safe

As for stuff like landscaping, carpenters, plasterers - i don't pay anything unless i see the completed product. anything agreed is written down in a piece of paper on the day and sms or emailed across to him. if they are late or not finishing (like dragging 2 weeks), just give them notice then they need to finish by x date otherwise sorry find someone else - i won't bother to even pay them a cent for not finishing the job and i will look for someone else. No point getting emotional.

For larger stuff like developing - just give the builder (turn key) and worry about different stages finshing and paying on time.

 

[BayView]

If that happens 3 could be already out a week from 1 rain day.
And there u are saying my plumber is so unreliable he hasnt turned up for a week im never going to get this done, oh i cant believe i chose this plumber

I don't think anyone has a problem with the tradies not being able to come due to hold ups/weather/life emergencies etc.

The gripe that EVERYONE has with tradies is their total lack of thought in terms of keeping the customer informed in advance if they are going to not turn up/be late etc.

All you blokes need to do is get on the bloody phone and call the customer and explain what is happening....don't simply not call, and then not turn up, or promise to be there at 9.00am and turn up at 2.45pm without a call.

In my industry everyone wants their car back asap, so if we see a hold up occurring, or apart is incorrect and needs to be re-ordered, ot we've found something else wrong with the car etc; we call the customer to let them know we need more time/pick-up tomorrow/more cost if we go ahead due to unforseen issues.

Noone likes to be without the car of course, but they are a lot less upset if we call them than if we don't.

It's simply common courtesy; it's how I would like to be treated if it was my car...same goes for tradies.

 

[property_girl]

Poor TMNT - you're taking a bit of a hit. I have been building for the last year and I have to agree with TMNT--some just don't bother telling you they're not turning up. It's got nothing to do with being rude or mean to them. I have always treated my tradesmen well--making them coffee and being accommodating. I had one guy--a great worker--but just wouldn't turn up when he said he would and would turn up about a week later unannounced. Whilst he worked like a Trojan while he was here, I had to let him go because the last couple of times he just didn't turn up. Don't get me wrong--there are some great ones. Yes, I know that if one thing goes wrong, it puts their whole schedule out. But the good ones will keep you in the loop.

I don't know about other areas in Australia, but I find Canberra super-expensive when it comes to trades. Several tradesmen here in the ACT have told me that bathroom renos START at $10,000.

I also agree with the person who said that they factor in a buffer for the unexpected. And I know that there is always something unexpected when renovating. But, boy, the buffers here in the ACT seem really high.

 

[boeman]

I don't know about other areas in Australia, but I find Canberra super-expensive when it comes to trades. Several tradesmen here in the ACT have told me that bathroom renos START at $10,000.

Not too bad for a bathroom, plus doesn't Canberra have the highest wages in the country?

Starting mine this weekend, everything already paid for including labour due some favours etc. Tapware was free, everything else at builders rates, tiler charging standard rate tiling for rectified tiling and its $5800.

Pay for the tapware, full rate for rectified and whack on 35% margin to allow for stuff ups and $10k is ballpark.

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

I don't think anyone has a problem with the tradies not being able to come due to hold ups/weather/life emergencies etc.

The gripe that EVERYONE has with tradies is their total lack of thought in terms of keeping the customer informed in advance if they are going to not turn up/be late etc.

All you blokes need to do is get on the bloody phone and call the customer and explain what is happening....don't simply not call, and then not turn up, or promise to be there at 9.00am and turn up at 2.45pm without a call.

This.

It's a simple problem, and would be easy to fix.