Unreliable tradies!
- Thread starter TMNT
- Start date
I found a great concreter via hipages, and have just negotiated a plastering job. However, with everything else lined up, we got the cheapest quote chap around for a full measure. This was tricky as the house doesn't settle until tomorrow, so getting quotes meant vendor allowing us in. My measurements were out in two rooms because I over-estimated the sizing. However, the price went up?
He was still cheaper than the other quotes, so we booked him, but did feel a bit ripped off at what we felt was a bit of bait pricing. We find out tonight he has pushed us back five days, which stuffs all the other trades tentatively lined up. Two bedrooms don't matter much, but kitchen and bathroom held up by five days is a big issue for us. We are going back to the next cheapest to see if he can do the job earlier.
If we had been able to get people in to quote rather than use mud maps, this wouldn't have happened, but to have him quote higher when the rooms were smaller than my estimate was a bit annoying. Now to be pushed back five days might mean "next!".
He was still cheaper than the other quotes, so we booked him, but did feel a bit ripped off at what we felt was a bit of bait pricing. We find out tonight he has pushed us back five days, which stuffs all the other trades tentatively lined up. Two bedrooms don't matter much, but kitchen and bathroom held up by five days is a big issue for us. We are going back to the next cheapest to see if he can do the job earlier.
If we had been able to get people in to quote rather than use mud maps, this wouldn't have happened, but to have him quote higher when the rooms were smaller than my estimate was a bit annoying. Now to be pushed back five days might mean "next!".
hey jen congrats on your jobs,
one thing for me which might be different to the way you operate, is that assuming you are doing a basic bathroom for example, lets say for an cheap IP or a reno and flip for a cheap property, I find that the moment you say complete new bathroom, the quotes start at about $4k and work from up there,
when I do my bathrooms, I usually work on about $2000for a new entire bathroom except for tiles, so new toilet, bath, shower screen, vanity,, tap heads, etc. etc.
maybe $1000 if I do it all myself,
if I got a quote from service seeking or hi pages, it would surely be $4k+
if I was doing a remote reno, then obviously youd have to pay the extra,
this is the reason why I dont get quotes for entire jobs as I find that understandedly, they have to add in the risk factor,
hence why if Im working with them a per hour arrangement is better for me
so I dont use these services too often
I always use the Managing Agents preferred list of trades people.
If it's a new purchase that requires reno, I will ask the RE that sold me the property for a list of their trades people. I may dangle a carrot with another RE company (say you want to sign up with them, but give me the list of your tradies first..).
I don't want the Managing Agent to be fully/partially involved as they will charge a fee. But I always get them in the loop to the tradies I used. Tradies look up with the Agent for business, and one bad feedback to the Agent it might jeopardize their business with the Agent
HiPages work on similar practice that the kudos and feedback for past jobs is where prospective client makes decision to go with. Tradies know how important a good feedback is.
If it's a new purchase that requires reno, I will ask the RE that sold me the property for a list of their trades people. I may dangle a carrot with another RE company (say you want to sign up with them, but give me the list of your tradies first..).
I don't want the Managing Agent to be fully/partially involved as they will charge a fee. But I always get them in the loop to the tradies I used. Tradies look up with the Agent for business, and one bad feedback to the Agent it might jeopardize their business with the Agent
HiPages work on similar practice that the kudos and feedback for past jobs is where prospective client makes decision to go with. Tradies know how important a good feedback is.
Thanks, TMNT.
I agree, breaking jobs down can work well. I used a per hour arrangement with tradies on the reno I mentioned above, and paid for the materials myself online and over the phone. I think if you ask for a complete new bathroom, you would get quotes based on re-doing all the plumbing, waterproofing etc, which is probably not quite right in your case.
Cheers
Jen
Welcome to building.
LOL. I've been "building" for over 30 years, but this is our son's first purchase and at $650 per week repayments to sit twiddling his thumbs, it just isn't going to happen. He needs a tradie that will do the job when he promises.
We'll probably resheet bathroom and kitchen ourselves so that the bathroom can be waterproofed and tiled and we can make and install the kitchen. We will likely get this plasterer to remove the bathroom and kitchen from his pricing and just do the rooms that don't hold us up (two bedrooms) unless we can find another plasterer who can do the whole job earlier.
true, the other thing which im very sceptical is doing a per hour job if im not there, sure they arent going to do one hour and bill for 8, however, I think its encouraging them to be slack,
for the most of the time, the agent managed tradies wont do that,
a friend of mine, who is very successful in construction (large scale) said to me "you should always know what amount the invoice is, before you get it" which I think is the way to go, I hate getting invoices and thinking "oh krap" because either ive misunderstood, underestimated, or blatently got ripped off
so jen, did you just say to your plumber for example, ok $x per hour, the materials can be picked up from here, can you retile, install this, install that, and let them go off on their own accord? that would scare the the bejesus out me!
For our PPOR bathroom, we got in a plumber recommended through a real estate agency. He was impressive and his quote was $4K. We got another plumber recommended from a builder we used on a reno and this plumber said "ballpark $2K". He was happy to give me a more detailed quote but I said I was happy with his ballpark as a starting point.
The plumbing ended up costing us $2.5K as we had a few problems to overcome. Had we accepted the $4K quote, we would have paid $4K and the plumber would have made an easy $1.5K. I understand why they must quote high but sometimes it is better to take the chance on a "pay as you go" basis, especially if you can be there to manage it and especially if you feel a connection with the tradie. This plumber is now our new plumber, so he will get plenty of work going forward.
The bathroom that cost us $22K as a DIY job with me sourcing everything, arranging everything was quoted at $30K from memory with a plumber who did the whole job start to finish. That figure was with very ordinary fittings. We went more upmarket with a stone bath, stone niches, in-wall toilet with fancy glass flush plate, sliding door shower screen, under-floor heating etc.
I priced up our job taking out the upmarket fittings, and we could have done the same job without the fancy, expensive extras for about $12K.
A friend got a local upmarket store to do her bathroom. It cost her $30K. It is beautiful but she had to go to their store on a Saturday morning and cause a bit of a commotion for them to get their crew back on her site. They weren't responding to calls or emails, so she visited at a busy time and started complaining LOUDLY. That got their attention
. The end result is a beautiful bathroom, but the process was not pleasant for her.
The plumbing ended up costing us $2.5K as we had a few problems to overcome. Had we accepted the $4K quote, we would have paid $4K and the plumber would have made an easy $1.5K. I understand why they must quote high but sometimes it is better to take the chance on a "pay as you go" basis, especially if you can be there to manage it and especially if you feel a connection with the tradie. This plumber is now our new plumber, so he will get plenty of work going forward.
The bathroom that cost us $22K as a DIY job with me sourcing everything, arranging everything was quoted at $30K from memory with a plumber who did the whole job start to finish. That figure was with very ordinary fittings. We went more upmarket with a stone bath, stone niches, in-wall toilet with fancy glass flush plate, sliding door shower screen, under-floor heating etc.
I priced up our job taking out the upmarket fittings, and we could have done the same job without the fancy, expensive extras for about $12K.
A friend got a local upmarket store to do her bathroom. It cost her $30K. It is beautiful but she had to go to their store on a Saturday morning and cause a bit of a commotion for them to get their crew back on her site. They weren't responding to calls or emails, so she visited at a busy time and started complaining LOUDLY. That got their attention
. The end result is a beautiful bathroom, but the process was not pleasant for her.If you have been building for 30 years, surely you have other plasterers?
I understand people get annoyed, but if you book in everyone one after the other on 100% set dates, you are destined for failure or frustration. .
Book in the first two trades, give the remaining trades a date gap of date x-y or thereabouts, and also a date where you will confirm with them (the date the first trade is due to start). As it comes in and the first two trades are set in stone and on site, then start setting definitive dates.
Doing this makes it easier for everyone. Otherwise, from day one every item is a critical path item and you will quadruple the amount of phone calls/site visits required to keep the job going.
Hi TMNT
Not quite letting them go off on their own accord! I can understand why that would scare you, and keep in mind that I didn't have a complete bathroom done. No, after getting a number of quotes (way too high) and then coming across an all-rounder (Carpenter, painter, renovator, handyman etc.) who gave a very reasonable overall quote and showed a 'care factor', I decided to give him a chance, but at his hourly rate. Very close consultation, lots of photos, and progressive daily payments kept everyone happy. I also had some tight deadlines, and many people coming and going, who were able to comment on progress.
Cheers
Jen
I am over the blatant ripoff and unprofessionalism in the industry
I have been trying for a while to get someone to quote on cutting a hole and installing sliding doors on my PPOR (I have the sliding doors) but cant get anyone to front up, they all promise to show, I take time off and they never turn up.
My mother just got ripped off horribly, in my eyes, by some painters.
She had booked them to paint her new deck months ago and they kept promising to turn up and never did and when they finally fronted a few days ago she got them to paint the house (which never needed painting, but that's another story) as well.
She wouldn't give me an exact figure but it was close to $10k and took less than 2 days in total.
Material cost would have been several hundred dollars leaving several thousand dollars/day for labour.
Thieves
I have been trying for a while to get someone to quote on cutting a hole and installing sliding doors on my PPOR (I have the sliding doors) but cant get anyone to front up, they all promise to show, I take time off and they never turn up.
My mother just got ripped off horribly, in my eyes, by some painters.
She had booked them to paint her new deck months ago and they kept promising to turn up and never did and when they finally fronted a few days ago she got them to paint the house (which never needed painting, but that's another story
) as well.She wouldn't give me an exact figure but it was close to $10k and took less than 2 days in total.
Material cost would have been several hundred dollars leaving several thousand dollars/day for labour.
Thieves
My husband is a licensed builder working mainly in the renovation/restoration field and always works on a per hour basis (rather than quoting). Clients either pay for materials themselves or hubby buys and charges back to the client at cost (receipts are made available). He invoices weekly so clients always know where costs are up to. He communicates regularly with clients so they know how the job is progressing. Some people don't like the concept of charge by the hour, but others are fine. I think for most clients its about finding someone you can trust and who can keep you informed about what work has been done and will happen next and when.
Re quoting, it can be difficult - there can be lots of unknowns and usually trades will build in some level of buffer for "what ifs". Trades don't want to lose money on a job so that buffer can be considerable depending on the type/size of the job. Suggest the best thing you can do is talk to people you know for referrals, ask your tradie for references and talk to a couple of previous clients. On sites like hipages, clients can leave reviews of tradies they've used which might help.
Re quoting, it can be difficult - there can be lots of unknowns and usually trades will build in some level of buffer for "what ifs". Trades don't want to lose money on a job so that buffer can be considerable depending on the type/size of the job. Suggest the best thing you can do is talk to people you know for referrals, ask your tradie for references and talk to a couple of previous clients. On sites like hipages, clients can leave reviews of tradies they've used which might help.
Lack of understanding = expecting someone to show up for a decent week's work, and do a decent job, without being surprised when it happens.
We all understand exactly how the construction industry works.
Happily; a few tradies don't - and they are the good ones that are harder to find.
Same in our industry.
We don't normally quote on services or specific repairs because there are too many unknowns and hiccups you cannot foresee. Stuff like blown light globes - eg; many of the cars these days require the battery to come out to change the headlight globe...another 15 mins on the bill - $25 plus the light. and so on.
We give an estimate/ballpark only.
But, if someone insists on getting a commitment on price, I use a fixed price servicing website when someone asks for a quote on XYZ service.
We punch in all the vehicle criteria and mileage, and up comes the list of places near us that will fix the price. It even shows the list of items covered in the service and parts needed.
It's terrific as a comparison.
Every workshop on that site invariably quotes more than the job will actually cost to do, I've found.
No doubt the "buffer" factor is there.
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My question is; is therr any other industry that you can be so repeatedly unreliable and not go bankrupt
Imagine you worked in an office and we're two hours later everyday or didn't show up
Hospitality
White collar
Retail
Manufacturing
Anything!?!?!?
By putting it into perspective you might be able to understand that the behaviour is borderline insane
Imagine you worked in an office and we're two hours later everyday or didn't show up
Hospitality
White collar
Retail
Manufacturing
Anything!?!?!?
By putting it into perspective you might be able to understand that the behaviour is borderline insane
They are usually their own boss, and have no overheads other than vehicle and Pub Liab insurance, mostly.
I've built 2 houses (not many compared to some) and a couple of renos where tradies were called in.
Some have been really good.
But generally; never do a fair dinkum week's work in terms of hours spent at a job.
If tradies did a fair dinkum 40 hour week for 48 weeks a year, houses would take half the time to build.
The sparky who did the electrical on our current PPoR was terrific. Younger bloke - not yer normal bogan stereotype tradie - quite intelligent, well mannered, didn't smoke, not covered in a mortgage worth of ink, professional, organised, diligent, had an IP and PPoR at aged 28...smart operator all-round.
Very much not the norm from my experience.
It's not so much the problem of not coming when they say they will; it's the problem of simply not showing up with no communication to say they won't, and the "I couldn't give-a-sheet" attitude that goes with it.
I've seen it loads and loads of times.
I well and truly now stand by my statement of a lack of understanding of the building industry.
LOL.
As I said; a decent whack of past experience.
Here's a challenge; find a building site with a tradie on it after lunch of Friday, this year before the Melb Cup weekend - or any long weekend...just one little example.
I think there'll be plenty of others here with similar good stories on diligent tradies with lots of comm skills with customers....lack of understanding and all.
