We need some Melbourne talk.....

leicachamp said:
I did speak to Wakelin about a year ago. I was shocked to find that he suggested I sell all my 12 properties (at the time ) in the West and North and buy 2-3 props in the East. He did not even suggest I keep the existing houses and use the equity to purchase future props in the east. Little to say that i did not take his advice.

Well done for sticking to your guns!

Wakelin are undisputably experts if you're after a good art-deco in Kew, Hawthorn or Toorak, and have some sound ideas on avoiding CBD marketeers.

However that's about where their usefulness ends.

When they go into investment strategy advice they are weaker. And when they rubbish areas they know little about (which they frequently do at the taxpayer's expense on ABC radio) they are speaking beyond their competence.

Despite the disclaimer at the beginning, I worry that less experienced listeners might mistake the force with which Wakelin propounds certain opinions (and that's all they are) with their veracity or appropriateness, especially when personal circumstances are considered.

Those here know the difference, but it is irresponsible to assume that the general listener does. In this regard I don't criticise Wakelin; in a business sense they have done extremely well to get a spot on the station that has more inner-city high income AB listeners than any other, but I do think that it is irresponsible for the ABC not to present a wider diversity of views in that segment rather than have it peddling just one.

Peter
 
Wakelin are undisputably experts if you're after a good art-deco in Kew, Hawthorn or Toorak, and have some sound ideas on avoiding CBD marketeers.

However that's about where their usefulness ends.

When they go into investment strategy advice they are weaker. And when they rubbish areas they know little about (which they frequently do at the taxpayer's expense on ABC radio) they are speaking beyond their competence.

Agree totally.

I did speak to Wakelin about a year ago. I was shocked to find that he suggested I sell all my 12 properties (at the time ) in the West and North and buy 2-3 props in the East. He did not even suggest I keep the existing houses and use the equity to purchase future props in the east. Little to say that i did not take his advice.

Same here. Apparently I had ‘all of this equity’ tied up in a property and I should sell it. Whilst my ‘inferior’ (outer 30km suburban) property has ‘only’ doubled in the last 4-5 years, its growth was put to good use in securing additional properties. I do agree the next few years outlook is not that crash hot, however after factoring in CGT, selling agents costs then another round stamp duty and buyers agents costs (probably) I’d simply be losing too much in transaction fees. I've worked it out and it's just a tad under $50k!! :eek: If I was going to spend another $50k it wouldn't be doing a one for one swap on a property that only grows at 5% with an equivalently priced one that grows at 7-8%, it would be to own both of them!

Believe me, I have no emotional attachment to this property, I bought it whilst overseas and I’d be lucky if I see it about once per year. If the figures worked I’d sell the thing in a flash. My research has shown that outer suburbs will still have good growth over the long term.

In general I think their advice is good and with my interests best at heart. For example, I definitely wouldn’t be purchasing that property again today (like some people still are). For the same yield and price, it’s my view you can get something with much better growth in their target areas and this is why I am using them now. I did well in this area due to timing. The areas they promote are more ‘set and forget’ areas, where timing is much less relevant. In general, this is probably the best long term option for the average passive investor who can manage a negative cash flow for a few years.

When I was starting out I required a high yield as this was my first IP in my early 20’s. I had no faith in capital growth plus I was on a low starting salary straight out of university.

Personally I believe a more rounded approach a combination of high yield, high growth and some in between (similar to Jan promotes in her books) is the way to go. You’ll get there almost no matter which way you go; the only variable really is time.

I spoke to a few Real Estate agents about Buyers Advocates. They dont have a high regard for them. A few of them said they love buyers advocates because they have a vested interested to get the sales through. They did not think that a buyers agents find better properties or get them for "Bargain" prices. " It is a myth that buyers agents get bargains "What they do provide is insurance you dont end up with a lemon. They told me it was better if I spend a few weeks in the area rather than use a buyers agent.

The Agents I spoke to was in the Oakleigh area.

Again, I agree. Most buyers agents I spoke with did simply appear to be real estate agents. I do believe though that Wakelin’s are different, based on speaking with people that have used them repeatedly, the strategies outlined in their book and my interaction with them. Their long waiting list is testament to their stringent selection criteria. Having a long waiting list is bad for their cash flow, but you don’t see them move it in a rush if they can’t. I’ve also seen them not buy properties that are even slightly compromised (in a three story block of six they bought the street facing top floor, but were not interested in the one behind it for example (top floor back of block, I don’t think it had any views)).

When I was looking for a buyer’s agent I wanted to ‘purchase’

  • time (looking one day a week wasn’t enough for me, plus I don’t even really want to do that)
  • negotiation skills (especially for auction)
  • asset selection advice
  • managing agent advice and monitoring
  • access to off market transactions by being on real estate agents ‘A-list’ - go into any real estate agents in the inner east/south east and they’ll know who the Wakelin’s are.
  • knowledge of market (so I don’t overpay) – I could have figured this out myself but it takes a lot of looking around and a lot of time.
  • emotional separation from the transaction
  • the highest possible growth asset in Melbourne in my price range
  • and paying the lowest possible price for it (I know I won't get a bargain, but I know I won't overpay $10k, which is very easy to do in these areas).

and I concluded the Wakelins were the best at providing me with the above at this stage of my investing career.
 
Am I the only one that thinks that getting familiar with a particular suburb and then finding a bargain within it is half the fun of investing?

The other half being watching its value increase>:)
 
Buyers agents have their place depending on your preferences/circumstances etc.

But, I would say one one of the biggest advantages of using residential property as an investment asset class is CONTROL!

This is much harder to get in the sharemarket, managed funds, derivatives etc...

If you're in a bookshop, flick through the new book by Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosaki, and go to the chapter titled 'Why I invest in real estate'...interesting read...

GSJ
 
Am I the only one that thinks that getting familiar with a particular suburb and then finding a bargain within it is half the fun of investing?

The other half being watching its value increase>:)

I agree. It is fun. But it's time consuming. I simply don't have the time. The only time I would have the time is between contracts, but good loans are harder to get when your income is $0. I'm actually going to miss it a bit, although sometimes I find I can get 'fed up' after a while of searching. Well, what usually happens is I'll get an SMS from some mates who are going out drinking on a warm Saturday afternoon and I've got open for inspections on.... I'm not made of steel! :)

GSJ I don't really understand the relevance of your post. Are you saying I will have less control of my next IP if I get someone else to help me purchase it?
 
Well, yes, if you let someone else do it for you, you have less control over the whole investment process. You are 'outsourcing' the core task of asset selection/negotiation/purchase. Even though, yes, you can 'monitor' or learn from this. Not saying this is bad, as you say, if you don't have time or confidence, then this is better than nothing. No point arguing over that. But, regardless of how convincing they are, at the end of the day, the buyers agents want to make themselves more wealthy, not you!

I am just pointing out that there are few other asset classes where you individually can have such an influence on the success or otherwise of your investment. Compare this with buying into a managed fund or buying an individual stock. Here, there are so many more variables beyond your control. And, real estate at the beginners level of investing, is not that complicated. That's why I would advocate, where possible and depending on your personal situation, to try and learn and do it yourself and avoid buyers agents. Better for you in the long-term.

For instance, buying a house over an apartment to avoid problems associated with common property/body corporates is one instance where you gain more control of your investment - eg. with a house you don't need all owners to agree before painting the outside of the property.

GSJ
 
I forgot to add the hidden reason I'm using a buyers agent.

I'm lazy. I've been 'buying' another investment property for the last 9 months...

That is probably the main reason.

I don't really feel I'm losing 'control' as I still have the ultimate say in all decisions, but you might say I won't get the same enjoyment or sense of satisfaction out of it as someone else would as I'm not playing a more 'active' role in it. I still feel I control the process as I get to choose the buyers agents, tell them roughly what to purchase, inspect the properties, make the final purchasing decision, attend the auction, appoint managing agents and manage them, discuss on somersoft, work excel for hours on end, determine and steer my overall strategy (which is more than IPs), meet mortgage brokers, shop for the best deals on tenant and other insurances, do my tax returns :eek: and all those other little things. I guess that's enough for me.

I plan to own many investments in many geographical locations and if I were to spend 2-3 months choosing each one, I won't have a chance to enjoy being young!

I would really love to take a few months off work and do the hunt myself, but as I mentioned earlier, that wouldn't really work out.

Personally, I think the finance side of things is the most important and that's what gets my main focus. I'm more of a hands off property investor. I don't really like the idea of talking to tenants although some people really like to self-manage. Horses for courses :).
 
I'm using a buyers agent because i don't have the time, how many buyers agent see a property before the general public knows it's on the market.

To even try and compete i would have to take too much time off work, and then my employer would have to replace me with someone who will do halve the work i did( yes i'm damn good), whilst i try to do something i'm not good at(thats what i'm paying for), doesn't make sense:mad:
 
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