What is wrong with tradies??

[weg]

2) I know tradies on day rates in excess of $500 a day. My painter quoted me $9000 to paint a brand new rendered 2BR single floor apartment with 7 doors/doorframes and total meterage 135m. One guy should be able to do the whole thing solo in under a week (I'll put it at 5 days) with total material cost $600. That's $8400 to do less than a weeks worth. I don't care about your overheads, that's bloody good money.

So let's not get stuck on this $500 figure either, same concept as focussing on overheads. The proof is in the pudding - these guys are making a killing no matter which way you slice it.

(Just as a reminder, I still take on jobs by the way. I'm not some bitter whinger )

OA, but you are whinging .

Geez, why are all the unqualified (a painter does not need a qualification) trying to get to the mines, when they can go to Darwin and paint?

PM me with some details so I can send my son over to work for you in the school holidays at half that price. He has some painting experience .

1) You keep going on about painters, who are not like most other licenced tradesmen, and 2) Darwin (or Port Hedland, or Queensland atm, etc) is not all of Australia.

2) Not all Uni qualified people are on a $30 per hour ceiling .

If you're going to argue this, at least expand on it and compare apples with apples.

 

[Monopoly]

The good thing about my trade is that its regulated and overseas labor cant just come in a cut prices down.

Hi Tab_Dr, of course overseas labour won't just come in and cut prices down but with TRA laws changing all the time, including the latest ruling will make it easier for overseas trade applicants to have their skills formally recognised here, establish themselves and thereby taking business from those local lads (like yourself) who are genuinely doing the right thing by customers. And not meaning to sound disrepectful, but what this country really needs is MORE tradies, especially ones that will actually SHOW UP to a job!!

 

[TAB_DR]

Hi Tab_Dr, of course overseas labour won't just come in and cut prices down but with TRA laws changing all the time, including the latest ruling will make it easier for overseas trade applicants to have their skills formally recognised here, establish themselves and thereby taking business from those local lads (like yourself) who are genuinely doing the right thing by customers. And not meaning to sound disrepectful, but what this country really needs is MORE tradies, especially ones that will actually SHOW UP to a job!!

Hi Monopoly,

I agree we do need more trades, or should i say good quality tradesman, who turn up on time and do the right think.

I'm actually for getting some skilled labor in as long as it doesn't saturate the market, take away the jobs of kids and they don't under cut everyone to pull down prices too much.

It is definitely happening now, not with the licensed trades so much, as they have to pass our test to be able to work as. I hope it doesn't as well(im bias) and i don't think the unions will allow it.

But with the unlicensed trades its a real problem. Its going to effect the employers putting on new apprentices. As they cant compete with the costs,
in turn will effect the amount of kids getting the opportunity to work and make money.

I just don't understand, how people cant see that there are so many costs in running a business and all the extra stuff that you have to cover for on top of your hourly to make money.

These attitudes are why I only quote per job and never give hourly as its like speaking to a brick wall. they think the hourly goes straight in your pocket.

Im never short on work, dont advertise and the people i work for are happy to pay top dollar for service and job they want.

 

[Monopoly]

Hi Monopoly,

I agree we do need more trades, or should i say good quality tradesman, who turn up on time and do the right think.

I'm actually for getting some skilled labor in as long as it doesn't saturate the market, take away the jobs of kids and they don't under cut everyone to pull down prices too much.

It is definitely happening now, not with the licensed trades so much, as they have to pass our test to be able to work as. I hope it doesn't as well(im bias) and i don't think the unions will allow it.

But with the unlicensed trades its a real problem. Its going to effect the employers putting on new apprentices. As they cant compete with the costs,
in turn will effect the amount of kids getting the opportunity to work and make money.

I just don't understand, how people cant see that there are so many costs in running a business and all the extra stuff that you have to cover for on top of your hourly to make money.

These attitudes are why I only quote per job and never give hourly as its like speaking to a brick wall. they think the hourly goes straight in your pocket.

Im never short on work, dont advertise and the people i work for are happy to pay top dollar for service and job they want.

Hi Tab_Dr,

Honestly I don't think it's a case of them not seeing the costs, I'm sure they do; I really believe it's a case of customers only seeing what they need and nothing more beyond that. As humans I guess we all suffer from this tunnel vision from time to time. I agree, it is not a healthy attitude to have, but alas...

As I said earlier, people like you who do DO the right thing needn't worry too much, your reputation will serve you well I'm sure. But for many others, I'm not so confident. Personally, I don't want to see anyone disadvantaged, especially this nation's young kids who are going through their (measley paid) apprenticeships. But at the end of the day, there is a severe shortage and need for these skills and I'm afraid the unions although regulating the industry have been a major player in bringing this country to where it is today!!

 

[locko24]

How many educated highly skilled adults make 52K?

Thought this was a thread about tradies....

 

[weg]

Thought this was a thread about tradies....

The comment was in context with what others posted in this thread. Read it.

Are you a new moderator here .

 

[locko24]

highly skilled adults

I thought this was a thread about tradies!
(Perhaps now you get my drift)

 

[Ocean Architect]

Its this sort of attitude that makes me glad us boneheads are making good money. my IQ is only slightly higher then 90, 93 to be exact

The reason why I was using 500 as an example was because its the figure you used.

Why all the hate for someone making money who has not gone to university.

I did my 4 years at trade school, passed my 3 exams to get my license and have done other courses at night to further my skills.

Why should you make more money then me.

I have a skill and license that you don't and cant do(legally) so you have to pay to get it done. The good thing about my trade is that its regulated and overseas labor cant just come in a cut prices down.

I hope you don't let all your tradesman know what you think of them, or they will all charge you like the painter did

I don't begrudge anyone who makes good money. The only thing that moderately gets on my nerves is the attitude. If you're in a good spot just say it as it is - "my skills are in demand and I'm milking it for all it's worth!" and good luck to you.

That being said, I do feel great pity for people who are really smart, did all the right things (studied hard, went to uni etc) and they're living crappy lives compared to what they would have if they had gone into the trades - and to add insult to injury, they (we. me.) have to put up with a bunch of people who simply fluked it telling them (me.) that they deserve their money because running a business is hard, and that they dont actually make triple the average wage, they only make double. It's insulting.

I mention painters because they're the easiest ones with lowest obstacles to entry - I did my first painting contract with brand new tools that I bought from bunnings for about 40 bucks.

Oh I tell the tradies straight, and use more than a few expletives during my tirades. Almost universally, my first question following a quote is "are you on drugs?" followed by a breakdown of tools, materials, costings, and timing. After they realise that I know what the story is, their prices come into line.

Believe it or not though, despite my constant haranguing of everyone, I'm actually very good to contract to. I make it very clear that I need x thing by x day and will pay x money and not interfere in any way - they can wear pink tutus for all I care - but if you don't hold up your end of the deal without a very good reason (maybe you know, death, stroke, multiple compression fractures, your wife running away with another man who happens to be me - you know, little stuff) then I will apply penalties and not budge an inch. Money is mathematics. If I suffer, you suffer. So don't make me suffer

 

[Ocean Architect]

OA, but you are whinging .

Geez, why are all the unqualified (a painter does not need a qualification) trying to get to the mines, when they can go to Darwin and paint?

PM me with some details so I can send my son over to work for you in the school holidays at half that price. He has some painting experience .

1) You keep going on about painters, who are not like most other licenced tradesmen, and 2) Darwin (or Port Hedland, or Queensland atm, etc) is not all of Australia.

2) Not all Uni qualified people are on a $30 per hour ceiling .

If you're going to argue this, at least expand on it and compare apples with apples.

In the morning my dear, I shall do as you asked (not the son thing. The days of easy money in darwin are thankfully drawing to a close)

 

[weg]

I thought this was a thread about tradies!
(Perhaps now you get my drift)

OK, I missed the joke/wit .

So what do you think? I'm starting a new extension soon and will need a carpenter, brickie, electrician, plumber, excavator, concreter for the foundations, and the thousands of dollars worth of equipment required to do this work... do I employ an unskilled labourer to do the lot (someone off Gumtree perhaps ), or do I do a DIY course at Bunnings and do it myself?

If it wasn't skilled work we would all be doing it ourselves (and it wouldn't be building as per third world building codes) and it would be legal to do so. Don't you agree?

No, I'm not getting peeved with you, but like someone here said, we all want great service and a high standard of work but we don't think these guys should be compensated for it. Not turning up is a different issue and unacceptable if you're not a rude or condescending customer.

And most tradies I'm sure are not earning anywhere near what painters in Darwin are.

 

[locko24]

....should be compensated for it.

I definately agree! Of course they should!

If i can't get a sparky for under $50 an hour, i won't complain, as that is what the supply of sparkies dictates! If i can't get a ditch digger for under $50 p/h i guess i'd pay that too!

...unless i can find ways around it!

 

[weg]

In the morning my dear, I shall do as you asked (not the son thing. The days of easy money in darwin are thankfully drawing to a close)

We lived in Darwin many many moons ago, and my husband did very well back then. So did I come to think of it . I got a position with pay, that would have taken me a few years to work up to here.

 

[Ocean Architect]

We lived in Darwin many many moons ago, and my husband did very well back then. So did I come to think of it . I got a position with pay, that would have taken me a few years to work up to here.

I spy with my little eye...a coffee slurping government worker!

 

[Tuppence]

You're still getting stuck on the details and not looking at the big picture - and the big picture is that boneheads working as tradies are doing better than people in my former profession by miles. Overhead this warehouse that, bottom line is that they're doing better. End of story.

Biggest picture of all, OA, I think, is supply and demand. It really is not much more complicated than that.

 

[kero]

shorten the apprenticeship for trades... why would we need 4 years to train a painter, plumber, brick layer, mechanic etc?

 

[warrioress]

I have a bachelors degree in pharmacy. I was in university for 4 years living in semi poverty. Pharmacists must undergo continuing education. Pharmacists pay thousands in ongoing insurance and licensing fees. Pharmacists, by and large, are paid a little over $30 per hour. I left my profession to pursue building because I could not justify the economic outcomes that went in pharmacy as compared to construction. What kind of twilight zone do we live in when that kind of thing happens?

And why does the pharmacist have to be two and a half feet up above everybody else? Who the hell is he? He’s a stock boy with pills as far as I can tell. Why can’t he be down there on the floor with you and me? Brain surgeons, airplane pilots, nuclear physicists, we’re all on the same level. But not him. He’s gotta be two and a half feet up. “Look out, everybody, I’m working with pills up here. Spread out, gimme some room. I’m taking them from this big bottle and I’m putting them in this little bottle.”

The only hard part of his whole job that I can see is typing everything onto that little, tiny label. He has to get a lot of words on there plus keep that small paper in the roller of the type writer. That impresses me. But putting pills in a bottle with a white jacket on, I don’t know why you need a diploma for that.
- Jerry Seinfeld

 

[warrioress]

Monopoly - perhaps give your local TAFE a call and speak to the Course Coordinator or Manager in the particular trade you need. They will have contacts so at least it give you an 'in' when speaking to one.

E.g. Bill Bloggs from NMIT gave me your number ......

Often the TAFE teachers are still in the trade or associated with it. For example, recently had a Building Surveyor do some work for me. He was working for himself but divies up his time teaching also.

Good luck with building your tradie network.

 

[Ocean Architect]

And why does the pharmacist have to be two and a half feet up above everybody else? Who the hell is he? He’s a stock boy with pills as far as I can tell. Why can’t he be down there on the floor with you and me? Brain surgeons, airplane pilots, nuclear physicists, we’re all on the same level. But not him. He’s gotta be two and a half feet up. “Look out, everybody, I’m working with pills up here. Spread out, gimme some room. I’m taking them from this big bottle and I’m putting them in this little bottle.”

The only hard part of his whole job that I can see is typing everything onto that little, tiny label. He has to get a lot of words on there plus keep that small paper in the roller of the type writer. That impresses me. But putting pills in a bottle with a white jacket on, I don’t know why you need a diploma for that.
- Jerry Seinfeld

Because you have to overhear what your assistants are saying to customers plus dispensary staff has to watch out for shoplifting. Tiny little packets of stuff worth 50 bucks a pop have a tendancy of going missing.

Also, if I disclosed to you how many lethal mistakes doctors make regularly that are corrected by pharmacists, you would neither speak so disparagingly of pharmacists, nor think so well of your doctor. I saved the life of my grandfather when I was a grad. The best cardiologist in the NT changed his medication abruptly from one ot the other. The reason? Both drugs ended in the suffix "olol". Took me a week to get in touch with the arrogant SOB too, but his tone went from condescending to kissing butt in apology pretty quick.

Day to day, pharmacists diagnose about 50% of all disease in the country (for free.) and pick up a few major mistakes a week without too much fuss.

(just because I can't stand the profession doesn't mean I wont stick up for it )

 

[Pa1nter]

shorten the apprenticeship for trades... why would we need 4 years to train a painter, plumber, brick layer, mechanic etc?

The only reason they need four years is so they learn the basics,it takes another four years before they actually are any good and pay their own way

 

[jaycee]

Because you have to overhear what your assistants are saying to customers plus dispensary staff has to watch out for shoplifting. Tiny little packets of stuff worth 50 bucks a pop have a tendancy of going missing.

Also, if I disclosed to you how many lethal mistakes doctors make regularly that are corrected by pharmacists, you would neither speak so disparagingly of pharmacists, nor think so well of your doctor. I saved the life of my grandfather when I was a grad. The best cardiologist in the NT changed his medication abruptly from one ot the other. The reason? Both drugs ended in the suffix "olol". Took me a week to get in touch with the arrogant SOB too, but his tone went from condescending to kissing butt in apology pretty quick.

Day to day, pharmacists diagnose about 50% of all disease in the country (for free.) and pick up a few major mistakes a week without too much fuss.

(just because I can't stand the profession doesn't mean I wont stick up for it )

So you're completely dismissing everything Jerry Seinfeld said then ? You're lucky it's not George we're talking about