What was YOUR upbringing like?

[Aaron Sice]

dad -

blue collar work-a-holic. 3rd marriage. no idea what to do with himself if he isn;t working. spends his money on motorbikes, playstations, big TVs, new furniture all the time etc.

thinks he is an investor because he has a LOC mortgage and will have his $100k mortgage paid off in 10 years.

good intentions but has NFI how to go about it and won;t ask.

stepmum -

blue collar work-a-holic. 3rd marriage. no idea what to do with herself when she isn;t working. had dreams of travelling, but has a heart condition so settled for a wedding and kids instead. kids grew up, moved out, becomes work-a-holic again. goes glassy eyed when i mention "compound interest".
lovely woman but has high expectations.

mum -

blue collar work-a-holic. high-school teacher. just bought her first house at 50. 2 kids, me and my half brother. bro is an engineer. no idea about anything other than tits and beer (excuse me all, really no other way to put it). mum is a bit airey-fairey but is grounded when it comes to kids.

me -

grew up in isolation out the back of the avon valley somewhere. violent 2nd marriage stepmum, dad worked 12hr shift packing bricks during recession. state primary education, private (only just!) secondary education. dad goes to prison, 2nd marriage stepmum walks, grandmother raises me till 3rd stepmum comes on scene. decide there's no way in hell i'll be working lie a slave for a living and as soon as i'm in TAFE i leave home and mooch off girlfriend - now wife with 3 kiddies - and get my grounding.

so far on the up and up at 27. spent about $20k to date of self education about CFDs, Options, Property Options, Futures, Forex etc. been self employed now for 2 years with a very successful company with about 5 contractors to manage.

passive income increasing almost monthly, building our family home less than 200m from the beach at Burns Beach which will be our third home after starting out in a 51sqm 2x1 sh1tbox in Wembley and currently in a front strata in Karrinyup opposite parkland and lake.

my parents still work god-awful hours (mum - 50hours, stepmum - 50 hours, dad - 60 hours +) and won;t listen to me when i suggest options for the to look at.

ah well, their loss. they'll realise their super won;t be worth sh1t when they retire and then think "gee maybe if had have followed his lead i wouldnt be so financially restricted in retirement now".

 

[skater]

elderly folks, ranging from 45 up to 93.

Elderly!!!! I've a good mind to come over to WA & wash your mouth out with soap, young man. Sheesh!!!

 

[Dazz]

...hehehe....thought that would get a few nibbles....

...anyway, back to the excellent thread topic.

 

[pursefattener]

Very interesting thread .

I was brought up on a back country farm about 1 hour from a town and 1/2 hour from school . My Dad bought the farm in 1971 with virtually no money and a rural finance loan at about 2% . Hocked to the eyeballs at that time . Over the years we chipped away at the mortgage as he says and by 1985 I think Mum and dad had the place freehold .

My Dad was a smoker and a drinker but very active . He is 67 now . Still smokes roll yer owns and has a stubby every night .. He was one of the hardest working fellows you would ever meet when we had the farm .

My parents were very conservative with money and hated debt . After they payed off the farm they saved money at the bank and could easily have invested in more property but as you know fear is a very powerful thing and they did nothing in the way of investing . Just saved and saved . I think they are typical of their generation .

They sold the farm in 2001 and now own a small place with a few acres on the edge of town . When I sit back and think about it, you would have to say they are successful . No lining up at centrelink for this old couple . They have multiple term deposits with different banks . Still no property though . Tenants wreck them you know ...

I got interested in investing when Noel Whittakers books first started coming out in 1987 when I was working up in the wheat belt at Carnamah . I was 21 and my girl friend at the time was given making money made simple for christmas . I read it about 5 times . That book was a revolution for it's time IMHO and It changed my life . I showed a couple of these books to my Mum and she was interested but things like residential property or shares were far too risky for Dad so they just kept on saving .... Any older folk will understand ????

I bought my first realestate investment when I was 22 and sold it 2 years later for a huge profit . I then got into dairyfarming and over the years I've bought more and more land and expanded . The dairy industry is now booming and I have money to invest in other things so I have put together a modest collection of residential investments and some industrial as well .

When i was growing up on the farm I was terribly shy . Actually I still am . When ever we had visitors , which wasn't all that often , I would hide . When I was 13 I was packed off to a boarding school and found it very difficult the first year . I coped though . I had to .

Fortunately I married a very extrovert girl in 1992 and I am not so shy and my kids are anything but . I'm 42 soon and just about had enough of working, having employees , running a business . Have been thinking of selling up the farm and moving to Queensland to a peaceful lifestyle property near Noosa or thereabouts . Especially while the industry is so good . The wife is not so sure though . She doesn't want to move .

One thing that stuck with me from when I was about 5 is being in town sitting in the car ( Mk4 ford consul ) with Mum and Dad having lunch with our sandwhiches and thermos while we watched others go into a lunch bar .... Mum said we couldn't afford that ! I guess she was right . i still think of that somtimes . It's funny how you have moments like that stay with you .

Shawn

 

[Shirley]

What a very entertaining thread!

I guess I had a pretty 'normal' middle class childhood. Dad had a small business, worked hard for everything he owned and always felt the taxman did better from the business than he did. Mum was a stay-at-home mum (as many were in the 50s) and interested in property but Dad was conservative so they only ever had PPORs. They were always generous to my brother and I and we never wanted for everything. Mum passed away last December but Dad, at 86, is still pretty fit and healthy. He teaches furniture restoration and is quite a whizz on his new computer and using Skype.

My brother went to uni but I started work at 16 and didn't get educated properly until my 40s. Have since made up for the late start with a Masters degree. We married at 20 and for the first 20 or so years we bought and sold PPORs when moving on transfer. Didn't really have any property investing knowledge until 2002 and probably as much from luck as anything, have done well since then. We've passed on our knowledge (gained from SS, and reading everything to do with property) to our three kids and they are all property-savvy with their own investments. Still haven't told my Dad that we own 9 investment properties - he'd only worry on our behalf (particularly about the $1M debt!)

Our only exposure to the stock market is through our superannuation which has grown well over the years. My employer puts in 17% and I contribute 7% of my wage so while I'm enjoying what I do, I'll keep on working for a few years yet (let's hope the market bounces back!)

Thanks to all contributors on Somersoft - it really is a marvellous resource.

Cheers
Shirley

 

[josko]

dad -


my parents still work god-awful hours (mum - 50hours, stepmum - 50 hours, dad - 60 hours +) and won;t listen to me when i suggest options for the to look at.

ah well, their loss. they'll realise their super won;t be worth sh1t when they retire and then think "gee maybe if had have followed his lead i wouldnt be so financially restricted in retirement now".

I find that interesting that your parents won't listen to you either!
Don't know about anyone else out there, but I finding this forum a huge , what would say. . outlet? even therapy?

I stopped telling my mother about my properties after the 4th one. (Father passed away from diabetes 10 years ago). I got sick of her almost gloating at me when I would mention things were a bit tight. It was almost like she wanted me to fail so she could say "I told you so."

Generally I stopped telling my "School" friends - (these are friends I've made in the past four years when my eldest started school) when someone at the bus stop called me "money bags"!

It's interesting how people can talk about their work and their pay rises and climbs up the corporate ladder, but when I mention property. . .well I just don't anymore!

 

[skater]

It's interesting how people can talk about their work and their pay rises and climbs up the corporate ladder, but when I mention property. . .well I just don't anymore!

You are certainly not alone in this.

 

[kaf]

My upbringing was one of the most disadvantaged for the investor mindset - The Middle Class. Basically, parent provided everything for their kids, living in the middle class mcmansion, sending kids to good schools and uni's, to get their middle class jobs, so that they could also live the middle class dream.

Cheers,

The Y-man

I feel bad to have to agree with you on this Y-man. I love my parents to bits and they have done a great job giving me a strong self-esteem and a anything-is-possible attitude. Dad had his own business for a long time which then went bust and he worked so hard to get on an even keel again. He's the eternal optimist which really helped him and all of us but it was terrible for investing. My dad's idea of investing is either a get-rich-quick scheme that (surprise) never worked or speculation. But the new car, electronics, expensive holidays etc. was the signs of success, not the assets on the balance sheet.

For me the penny only dropped in about 2005 (age 35) - ah: got to collect income producing assets for financial independence (outside super). Funny, somehow that just never crossed my mind before and when we bought IP1 in 2003 I think we only did that because others around us did too and we could afford it so that somehow made it a good idea .

My parents are happy to hear about it but also slightly sceptical of our property ventures. They still don't understand why we don't want to sell soon to buy a newer car and go on an expensive holiday...

So hopefully as our little collection grows we'll be able to help them do the holidays and make sure they are ok plus be able to spend more time with them in Europe...

kaf

 

[pennyk]

I grew up in a middle class family, but my parents had grown up in fairly poor families. One grandfather was a missionary teacher on an aboriginal station, who died young leaving my grandmother to raise 3 of her own children and 5 additional step children, and my other grandfather died very young leaving my father and his older sister to support their families. My father was the first person in his family to graduate from university, which he did when I was around 8 years old and he would have been close to 50. I had 5 siblings... I'm the second youngest. There is 25 years between my eldest brother and my youngest brother.
My parents both worked hard. My dad owned his own business, which nearly went bust when I was a teenager as a result of him misappropriating funds from the business to pay for some family needs. My mum worked in the business, as well as looking after us, and having boarders/ homestay students. At one stage, she was working in the city, coming home at around 6pm and then cooking for 13 people, every night. Talk about a superwoman!! We never really bought alot of doodads. We drove our cars until they died, and we didnt own a colour TV until the '80s. But its expensive to keep so many kids!
In terms of investing, my parents taught me that you can survive through tough times, if you can just keep your head above water long enough!! They kind of fell into property investing. They bought a house next to my grandma, in the northern suburbs of Sydney, before it became so expensive. When grandma died, they bought out my mum's sister and brother's share of the inheritance, because the siblings were in a financially difficult place at the time. A little while later, my aunt moved into the house and paid nominal rent for the next 15 years or so. It is actually divided into a flat, and there were tenants in the downstairs section.
About 10 years later, the house next to my grandmas was on the market for around 1 year. It was a huge mess. So, my parents ended up buying it, renovating it and renting it out. It was tough, particularly when the business was going through the ringer. But they now own around 1 acre of subdividable land in a high value area of Sydney.
They decided to rent it out to homestay students, by the room, instead of renting it out as complete houses. When my siblings and I moved out of home, they then also had homestay students in their house as well. They cooked for all of them - hence the 13 people for dinner.
My dad retired when he was about 73 and my mum retired from having homestay students when she was about 72. So, I've also learned how to work hard.
But they were so generous - and I hope that's been passed onto me as well. they have lent and given money to all of us at different times to help us along. They have babysat the grandkids on a weekly basis for years. They drove us around everywhere, made costumes for us and our friends, had numerous parties and gatherings at their home. They have been generous with time and money. Everything they did - working, investing etc, was all to benefit their children and family. So, I feel very blessed, not just from the inheritance they will leave, but the heritage as well.
Dad died early last year, and has left mum in a very solid and organised financial state. Mum has dementia, so we are now learning about giving time and money in very practical ways - giving back to her some of what she gave to us.
My husband's family also had investment properties.. in QLD. Although they had a much more structured approach and bought in many different areas and different styles of homes. So, it seemed natural for us to invest, as soon as we learned that you could use equity as a deposit.
We have had 2 IP's, but had to sell both of them, because a business we had went sour. So, we are just getting back onto an even keel and hopefully later this year we might venture back into IP land.
Pen

 

[kum yin lau]

Hi, what a wonderful opportunity to vent a bit!

There's some bits about parents. Here's mine. Did anyone remember my story how my mother stood at the door & quietly said she could raise $10K by selling her jewellery? So I could get some relief from my money problems (bought my 1st house & wham! the whole property market collapsed) Does that sound familiar to anyone?

Anyway, Mum now has Alzheimer's & my brother said it's easier for us to lose $3000 than to harass her about what happened to the money.

She's refused a maid. Poor Dad sometimes gets no food because she forgets to cook.

I still give them about $8-10K a year as do four out of 8 siblings. Neighbours look out for them & we give them gifts & when they say they've bought whatever, we just reimburse them.

Mum still WORRIES about me. Because she never let me forget my 'mistake' buying my 1st house.

KY

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

You are certainly not alone in this.

In Australia we have a very ingrained idea that success is directly related to your occupation and income, which results directly from how smart you are and how hard you have worked. Of course, the successful are 'supposed' to drive nice cars and have big homes to encourage younger people along the same path.

Property investing seems to many people to be 'cheating', because it breaks this traditional model. To many people it simply isn't fair that someone (who may not have impressive formal qualifications and/or years of experience) can make money from investing. I think many people resent those of us who get ahead through investing, but are vague about what the problem is. This is a typical jealousy reaction.

I tend to keep my mouth shut unless I know I won't offend people by talking about it, and I rarely talk numbers. Being able to have open discussions without getting constantly shot down is the main reason I hang around this forum! Thanks!

 

[our obsession]

....and that's the really interesting thing about all of us; such varied backgrounds and stories to tell but maybe something clicked or ticked in the mindset?

We could all be just doing what anyone else does, or cruising along, but instead something has grabbed us by the short and curlies and we've gone huh? There could be something in this.

At a funeral wake the other day I met up with a much older step sister (who has achieved so much with her property investing-all on her own, being a very independent sole sufficient woman) and got a little too excited, (remember I'm at a funeral and meant to be paying my respects..).

It was just great to catch up and talk and compare notes and ideas, in the flesh so to speak, instead of over the phone. Hope you realise it wasn't her funeral.

We have had contact over the years but our approach to property investing has been entirely different; apart from that we both choose to invest in regional cities and not metro, (for the moment anyway).

Maybe to add to Berlina's thoughts, also maybe folk have the fear factor...that stops them short of getting into property?

That fascinates the crap out of me! Just why more people don't????

Very seriously here, if I can do this almost anyone can...but they don't?

By rights according to my pedigree and upbringing I should be on my last legs drinking myself to death? and owing money everywhere...

I'm not exceptionally smart nor well educated...but I do think, sincerely from my heart, the one thing I do recognise is that everyone of us deserves to pat ourselves on the back for the steps (or leaps) we have/are taking toward our future(s) financially..

Despite all that...whatever it is behind us, good, bad or indifferent look what we are achieving as individuals or families for that matter.

Truly absolutelyfrigginincredible.

NB I also respect people's right of choice not to invest, but the curiousity factor within me would love a huge survey just to see why people don't? A nice referendum or something. Put my questions to rest.

 

[Perp]

I asked my dear MIL all about this mindset in depth the other day. Despite our having had some pretty reasonable successes, she asked last week "You won't be buying any more property, though, will you?" in a worried voice. After stewing on it for a few days, I asked her (when less emotional) why on Earth she said that, and that I was disappointed that she couldn't be more supportive.

After lots of stuttering - we're so different she couldn't comprehend why I didn't comprehend her, and vice-versa - and clarifying questions, I figured out that it seemed to boil down to 3 things:

1) Debt is bad because you have to pay interest. Interestingly, PPR debt is "good" in her mind, because you're buying your house. But investment debt is debt on which you have to pay interest with no guaranteed return. I kept asking "yes, but if you pay 10% interest but earn 20% income on that money, you're better off having the debt, right?" but she just looked at me blankly, and indicated that she couldn't sleep at night if she had as much debt as we did. And I just reminded her that we slept perfectly well and she'd never be on the hook for our debts anyway.

2) She said that she could never have invested (though she could have, she just didn't know how and it didn't occur to her), so in some way she feels that we're entering foreign territory that she can't relate to. This is particularly interesting since she was left a sizable inheritance from her grandfather who had significant property holdings. I reminded her of that and she couldn't reconcile this, just mumbling something like "yes, well, I suppose, but he didn't have any debt did he?"

3) Her goal for her children was for them to have "good professional jobs". Hubby's siblings are a mid-upper level manager and a scientific researcher, so presumably they're fulfilling what she wanted for them, despite neither of them being as wealthy as we are. Hubby's quite a senior engineer, so at the moment he's in the niche she'd picked out for him, but his wanting to get OUT of that niche seems to somehow violate her expectations.

Interesting, isn't it? Oh well, it takes all kinds, and I'm glad that I got to have a calm discussion with her about it.

 

[wylie]

Tracey, you are so lucky you can have any type of sensible conversation with your MIL. I gave up long ago.

My MIL is very proud that all her five children now have tertiary qualifications. She is very competitive with her younger sister, who has seven children, all of whom got the equivalent of OP1s (or thereabouts). It is funny to see the posturing that goes on when these cousins are talked about.

We don't ever discuss our investments either, but I do tell her when we have been busy renovating. She usually says "Oh, I could have given you a day painting." When I have told her she has never helped, but always after the fact makes the "if only I knew" offer.

I just dig myself deeper, though like a moth to a flame, I cannot help myself. I stress to her just how much work we have been doing, but I make sure she knows that when we come home at 8pm after working hard all day, her darling son gets to have a shower and some "down time" while I do everything I haven't done during the day. She just glosses over all that, of course.

She lives in a dreamworld of her own making, and her children subsequently find it hard to make any conversation. Everything is "just lovely", "isn't this niiiiice", "you're a GOOD little mother.....", etc etc, all with a lilting, sing-song voice. Sugary, fluffy rubbish. I cannot stand it. I just want to whack her sometimes.

Anyway, her heart is in the right place, but I grit my teeth to get through family gatherings.

Funny thing though is that until hubby's father passed away, he had no idea whether they even owned their house. Money was not talked about in his household, at all.

In our household it was talked about, and we keep nothing from our boys either. No mushrooms.

 

[pursefattener]

Hi Tracey

It seems to me that perhaps you need a little more distance between you and your MIL ... Perhaps stretch that umbilical cord a bit You have the making of a curse there

Xenia , Tell us about your upbringing ..

 

[Perp]

It seems to me that perhaps you need a little more distance between you and your MIL ...

Actually, there has been a little too much distance in the past! We only see each other a few times a year, and we are and always will be very different people, but I'm glad that we can now have a respectful discussion about issues on which we have different views.

Tracey, you are so lucky you can have any type of sensible conversation with your MIL. I gave up long ago.

I find that closing my eyes, breathing deeply, and repeating over and over in my head like a mantra "They're my children's grandparents, they're my children's grandparents" helps

 

[Xenia]

She's refused a maid. Poor Dad sometimes gets no food because she forgets to cook.

KY

My dad tried this "poor me" attitude with us once too when my mum refused to/did not have time to cook for him. I asked him if he can read then threw him a cook book. End of Problem!

I once left him with my 7 month old daughter to take my other child to the hospital due to asthma attacks. Mum was worried leaving him as he "does not know how to change a nappy" I told her he will be fine and she came with me. He rang an hour later telling me that the baby needs her nappy changed I told him to work it out it really isn't rocket science! We came back to find that he had actually survived and did well.

People try these things on to get away with doing certain things, it may be because they are lazy or because they percieve it as being beneath them, whatever the reason it is only their stuff and no one elses. When it's thrown back at them suprise surprise, they are really perfectly capable of taking care of things themselves

 

[shermy]

Growing up in a fairly conventional middle class family in the 70's "investing" was what rich people did. I always got the feeling, from my dad especially that, "they're rich" and "we're not, but doing OK" and that's the way it will stay for your whole life.

But I say NO!, I'm not happy "just doing OK" for the rest of my life!

As I start on the IP road my dear old dad is still very sceptical about the whole deal. Same old arguments, "bad tenants, increased debt". Like Ozprep stated about their MIL. PPR debt is good, investing debt is bad - that seems like my dads attitude to a tee. Looking at it from his perspective he grew up in the middle of WW2 in London. He had basically nothing, even for many years after the war ended. I believe he still feels that everything can be taken away from him at a moments notice so whatever you do don't go off gambling on some get rich quick scheme. He still doesn't understand that it's a slow, well proven method to financial security.

At least mum is coming around. After explaining thousands of times to her about the plan I have in place for investing, she finally told me that it sounded like it could work. Why the change in heart? Well last weekend she'd read Noel Whittakers column in the paper and he basically endorsed the same strategy. If Noel says it's OK then by all means go ahead and invest in property.

I only wish I was more like my little brother. At the age of 7 he was opening and closing bank accounts like clockwork chasing the best interest rate on his savings. This was in the good old days when you didn't need 100 points of ID to open an account. I could never be bothered with all the hassle. He was such a "money lovin'" kid. For his 8th birthday he asked for a cashbox...which he got. On his 10th birthday a kind relative wanted to give him $50 ( a very big sum of money back then). He accepted of course but did request that the $50 be made up of 50 x $1 notes. He wanted a big wad of bills in his wallet. It was no surprise to the family when he became a Futures Trader on the Sydney Futures Exchange...all those people yelling at each other and all about money. He was in heaven.

 

[handyandy]

I think many people resent those of us who get ahead through investing, but are vague about what the problem is. This is a typical jealousy reaction.

This can happen even when speaking to experienced property investors.

At a recent gathering I was asked what I had been doing. I indicated that we had recently suffered in the share market as this was to me the biggest item on my agenda. Never mind that we have been doing 4 reno's over the last four months and have a whole heap more to do throughout this year.

The reaction was that 'you should stick to your knitting and stay in control etc' never mind that over the last 4 years we had made more than 1/2 our property portfolio value from the share market and kept it ie not just capital gain. Basically there was no real interest nor I suspect understanding that there can be other strategies then the questioners ones.

In the end there was no point discussing it as most people there were only had property related interests so I just smiled politely and left it at that.

I guess people become very focused on the things that they understand and are comfortable with and actually look for things that reinforce their current state and if it happens to be something at your expense rather than theirs then so much the better.

Cheers

 

[josko]

I asked my dear MIL all about this mindset in depth the other day. Despite our having had some pretty reasonable successes, she asked last week "You won't be buying any more property, though, will you?" in a worried voice. After stewing on it for a few days, I asked her (when less emotional) why on Earth she said that, and that I was disappointed that she couldn't be more supportive.

After lots of stuttering - we're so different she couldn't comprehend why I didn't comprehend her, and vice-versa - and clarifying questions, I figured out that it seemed to boil down to 3 things:

1) Debt is bad because you have to pay interest. Interestingly, PPR debt is "good" in her mind, because you're buying your house. But investment debt is debt on which you have to pay interest with no guaranteed return. I kept asking "yes, but if you pay 10% interest but earn 20% income on that money, you're better off having the debt, right?" but she just looked at me blankly, and indicated that she couldn't sleep at night if she had as much debt as we did. And I just reminded her that we slept perfectly well and she'd never be on the hook for our debts anyway.

2) She said that she could never have invested (though she could have, she just didn't know how and it didn't occur to her), so in some way she feels that we're entering foreign territory that she can't relate to. This is particularly interesting since she was left a sizable inheritance from her grandfather who had significant property holdings. I reminded her of that and she couldn't reconcile this, just mumbling something like "yes, well, I suppose, but he didn't have any debt did he?"

3) Her goal for her children was for them to have "good professional jobs". Hubby's siblings are a mid-upper level manager and a scientific researcher, so presumably they're fulfilling what she wanted for them, despite neither of them being as wealthy as we are. Hubby's quite a senior engineer, so at the moment he's in the niche she'd picked out for him, but his wanting to get OUT of that niche seems to somehow violate her expectations.

Interesting, isn't it? Oh well, it takes all kinds, and I'm glad that I got to have a calm discussion with her about it.

Verbatum from the big Don's "Think Big and Kiss ***"

"I have noticed that all these successful people have traits that set them apart from the pack: their attitudes, actions, persistence, and passion, plus a whole slew of other qualities that seperate the winners from the losers. To be successful you have to seperate yourself from 98% of the world."

. . . . . .

"Most people are not cut out for this. You have to deal with a tremendous amount of pressure. You have to think large and be creative to solve big problems that scare the crap out of most people. . . . .Nobody is going to hold your hand or help you along. You are on your own. You have to be able to bend but never break."

Interesting. . . .