Condensed your quote Mr.F as it hits home for myself.
No doubt,you can't read this,so i'll resort to other means.
Cheers
Why be an employer ?
- Thread starter Macca
- Start date
Condensed your quote Mr.F as it hits home for myself.
No doubt,you can't read this,so i'll resort to other means.
Cheers
On that note; if I - as an employer - were to ask a prospective worker during a job interview if they were a smoker, this could be deemed as discrimination.
Have a package of cigarettes nearby, and offer them one, and stick one in your mouth. If they don't smoke, just take the cig back out..and say you're trying to quit.
Smokers rarely decline
see this is where the law is very hypocritical, but I dont know what the solution is
when you interview someone, you are assesing the suitability of the job, ie you are skills/experience discriminating, you are looking for the one with the most experience for example
well, skills and experience are something that you can control but not your gender or nationality?!?!?!
fair enough,
what about weight, attractiveness??? these can all be controlled. its illegal for me to discriminate based on overweight or not,
but at the same time if I had a nightclub, my promotional staff would be women! so if I reject a male applicant then im discriminating.
where does it end!!!
I can only speak from my own experience, but I had a set list of tasks that needed to be done by a certain due date.
The way that I would establish the ground rules would be that there are no 'fixed' work hours - salaried employees can come and go as they please, as long as they adhere to two factors:
1. they get the work done on time, every time, to at least the required standard
2. that they be in the office when they are needed (eg: client appointments, performance reviews, whatever)
Have a package of cigarettes nearby, and offer them one, and stick one in your mouth. If they don't smoke, just take the cig back out..and say you're trying to quit.
Smokers rarely decline
Yeah, us non-smokers who absolutely despise cigarettes are going to have a pack handy!
Dumbest idea Ive ever come across.
pinkboy
pb, give me your packet, I'll take it off your hands. As long as it's Marlboro Reds 20's.
Of course it is. It's none of your business if they're "a smoker"; maybe they only smoke at home and at lunchtime, for example.
Firstly, I don't see why you're focused on what can be "controlled". I don't see that it's relevant to the factors that are covered by anti-discrimination law.
On the other hand, if the factor you want to use to discriminate is inherently relevant to the job, there's no discrimination issue. If you want to employ people to be, say, "meter maids" or topless dancers or something, then of course you can restrict yourself to women and attractiveness can be a factor. For a bookkeeper, not so much.
With regard to weight, there are very few jobs I can think of where the weight itself would be an issue. If you had to drive a forklift and the forklift's maximum seat capacity was a certain weight, perhaps, but failing that, I can't see how weight is relevant.
Wrestling.
I'm sure a $20 investment to buy a pack would be well worth it, if you are trying to not hire a smoker.
Smokers, as a group, are less healthy, and cost employers more money.
Taking more smoke breaks and sick days.
Don't get your undies in a bunch, Pinkboy
Firstly, I don't see why you're focused on what can be "controlled". I don't see that it's relevant to the factors that are covered by anti-discrimination law.
On the other hand, if the factor you want to use to discriminate is inherently relevant to the job, there's no discrimination issue. If you want to employ people to be, say, "meter maids" or topless dancers or something, then of course you can restrict yourself to women and attractiveness can be a factor. For a bookkeeper, not so much.
With regard to weight, there are very few jobs I can think of where the weight itself would be an issue. If you had to drive a forklift and the forklift's maximum seat capacity was a certain weight, perhaps, but failing that, I can't see how weight is relevant.
well Bv, you are a smart guy, you should be able to work out that anti discrimination laws are intended for people to get a fair chance with whatever
so that means no gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion
these things you cannot control, other things you can control is things like discriminating against those with kids etc. sure you choose to have kids or not but kids would be safe to be considered a right in todays society
so yes, even the airlines arent allowed to charge based on passenger weight, if they did, there would be so much uproar as its discrimination.
when you are choosing someone for a position or job, you are discriminating at many levels, and thats the point of interviewing someone,. if there was no discrimation, basically you would accept the first person applying for the job, even if it was a 18 year old applying for a brain surgeons position
I'm sure a $20 investment to buy a pack would be well worth it, if you are trying to not hire a smoker.
Unfortunately my industry is full of them, and generally unavoidable. I do have rules however that no-one can smoke on the premises and only in their lunch breaks. My perm guys are 100% with this. This and the very fact if you light naked flames in my workshop you will probably go KA-BOOM!
Smokers, as a group, are less healthy, and cost employers more money.
Taking more smoke breaks and sick days.
Mitigated above, but I have to work with what I have to work with - and sort them out accordingly.
Don't get your undies in a bunch, Pinkboy
Not likely for you my dear.
I can sniff out a smoker a mile away - and I cant smell. I just have to look at a person when Im interviewing and I can tell straight away. Im also not afraid to ask, as I just say 'Do you smoke? Because you cant smoke in my yard' - and I leave it at that. Im not being discrimanatory - Im laying down the rules of entering the premises. Ways around everything.
I still stand by my comment that its the dumbest idea ever. Cant see a non-smoker even attempt that.
pinkboy
you discriminate through the job applications.
Or you put little things in like required languages to be spoken.
I'm sure a $20 investment to buy a pack would be well worth it, if you are trying to not hire a smoker.
Smokers, as a group, are less healthy, and cost employers more money.
Taking more smoke breaks and sick days.
Don't get your undies in a bunch, Pinkboy
vast majority of my whole organisation are smokers, including me
or alternatively you say welcome to the club.
The outdoor ash tray is there.
By the way do you know whats the latest wholesale price for imported cigarettes is?
Retail?
No I am not talking Australian retail.
Even better, after the formal stuff, lets have a cigarette or two and get to know one another, maybe mix it with a drink or three.
I'm down. Let's do this.
Most jobs in life aren't structured this way; most jobs are such that the worker is required to work through their rostered time doing various tasks and roles as required until knock-off time.
It is; if it's my business and I am looking for an employee who is going to be the most productive for me.
If, say; you have a workplace agreement whereby the smokers can take a 5 min break at the end of every hour for a smoke...sounds like not much of an impost on the Boss's business, right?
Most smokers would love this arrangement - currently many simply go out for a smoke as they deem needed with no set time structure of when and how long?
So, with the 5 min every hour model; over an 8 hour shift that is 35 mins of paid unproductive time per day, almost 3 hours per week, and 18 days per year.
Will they make up that time in higher productivity than the non-smoker? In the vast majority of cases - I'd seriously doubt it.
OK, so let's apply the same model; but say to the worker - "you can have the 5 mins, but it will be unpaid time".
What will they say to that?
Either way, I still lose 18 days of productivity per year per worker - whether it cost me money in wages or not.
In 18 days, we can put out approx 54 services (3 per day) per mechanic. That is a very big impact on my turnover.
So, when hiring staff, of i am confronted with two similar applicants; one smokes and one doesn't - the smoker won't get the job.
He won't get it anyway because I hate smoking. Discrimination? Yep.
I think you're failing to grasp the distinction between the quality of a person that they are "a smoker", and the person's activity habits, that they require smoking breaks every hour.
A smoker who doesn't smoke during work hours wouldn't have the productivity detriments you mention, and it would be none of your business what they do at home.
Putting discrimination in the ads doesn't make it ok or acceptable!
