Would you riot if your country was up the *****?

i think i mentioned this last year, but Greece cant afford to default whilst it is running a structural deficit.
Once its structural deficit is in order, then it will be in a position to play hardball.
 
CJProperty said:
....The US debt to GDP ratio is above 80%+ and greece is 127%+. Can't get the exact numbers without a more thorough look.
Click to expand...

maybe it was 8x and 10x... I was listening from the other room so I didnt hear it that clearly......
anyway, my main point was that they were saying the US debt % was higher than Greek debt. It was Alan Kohler on ABC news. too late at night for me to look up the details now... time for bed!
 
Can the US just print money they need in this case ?

I wouldn't have a clue, really way over my head, but would that need to be a large enough amount that it would affect the US$ value by enough for it to be a whole other issue ?
 
Well people have been saying the USD is going to collapse due to money printing for over 40 years now. While its value has dropped - it's not a massive collapse as everyone has envisaged due to other factors.
 
pennyk said:
maybe it was 8x and 10x... I was listening from the other room so I didnt hear it that clearly......
anyway, my main point was that they were saying the US debt % was higher than Greek debt. It was Alan Kohler on ABC news. too late at night for me to look up the details now... time for bed!
Click to expand...

I think he was referring to deficit and not to overall debt.

My other point which probably would have been mentioned earlier is that Greece is a small country and therefore cannot afford a big public sector.

They'll have to reduce the number of public servants or will have to keep cutting their wages till their books are balanced.
 
Great read. Does make one wonder if - in the near future - there will be an international currency that is not attached to any country/government but only to the IMF.

Not that I know how one would do such - but interesting concept and the writing is on the wall.
 
lizzie said:
Great read. Does make one wonder if - in the near future - there will be an international currency that is not attached to any country/government but only to the IMF.

Not that I know how one would do such - but interesting concept and the writing is on the wall.
Click to expand...

Gold. :D

Or we can just all learn mandarin. Is Rudd still free?
 
The US can and do print money.

With wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, a $3 Trillion bailout and a massive health bill to pay they're printing it faster than ever before.

But Greece can't because it's not their currency. They're using the Euro. If they were using dracmas they'd be able to print money and buy their way out. But that would come with a hyper-inflation problem.
 
pennyk said:
yes, thats correct... sorry for my earlier mistake. I managed to find the report.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/business/ (in the featured media section down the page on the right hand side.)

So, the Greece deficit is 8.3% of GDP and US is 10.8%..
the only times its been more was during WW1 and 2.
Click to expand...
The US figures become really scary when you account for unfunded liabilities. They would need 100% income taxes to fund them. (something like that).
 
It's obviously the shock to our senses that it could just be possible that it could happen to the almighty US of A ?! :eek:

Now that's unfathomable therfore armageddon comes to mind, where mas if someone like Greece defaults,or whoever else, what did you expect they're not like smart as Americans
 
pennyk said:
maybe it was 8x and 10x... I was listening from the other room so I didnt hear it that clearly......
anyway, my main point was that they were saying the US debt % was higher than Greek debt. It was Alan Kohler on ABC news. too late at night for me to look up the details now... time for bed!
Click to expand...

Don't worry I knew what you meant. ;)

Greeces overall debt is higher than US because it has been running larger deficits over a decade. Its current account deficit is predominantly interest charges.

This is the issue facing those in Greece arguing against default is that by defaulting they wipe the interest charges and then are running close enough to a surplus now. Hence the calls to default they would devalue their new currency and while travelling would become more expensive outside greece their own produce would be affordable to them, their exports more affordable to other countries and so growth could start afresh.

As others have mentioned not having monetary control over their own economy is the main issue. Usually when your economy hits the skids your currency devalues and your loans are either hedged or you have them in your currency (the massive advantage of the USA, their debts are in $US so it really does not matter to them to quantitatively ease!) Sometimes their have been defaults or near defaults where a countries debt is in offshore currencies (currency crisis) but in the case of greece it is in their own currency but their economy cannot support the wages they are paid in this currency hence the issues with the public service etc. In Australia in the same situation our dollar would be back at 50c US and we would have all taken a 50% haricut without even caring except our TV's and playstations would cost more. Half the economy in export game would be happier for it!
 
tom32 said:
I think the creditors including the German government have as much to learn from this.

Remember if you lend money to someone you are the one taking the risk as much as they are. If you gave 100,000.00 to a metho drinker on the street and then find he cannot pay it back you have no one else to blame but yourself and no reason to blame them. Look at yourself.

The Greeks have every reason to protest because there is another way out and their government is choosing the harder road it would seem.

The Germans protesting just don't understand what their government is trying to do, chase back the money already on loan and shore up a failing and fragile part of Europe. If Greece goes it is possible others will follow and Germany and France will be the two countries most hurt being there creditors. Greece is likely better off post a default then before it. Germany and France are not. Put it this way Greece cannot go backwards from here at any rate by defaulting!
Click to expand...

In support of your post,, I found this video very interesting to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKpxPo-lInk&feature=player_embedded#at=4304
 
jaycee said:
It's obviously the shock to our senses that it could just be possible that it could happen to the almighty US of A ?! :eek:

Now that's unfathomable therfore armageddon comes to mind, where mas if someone like Greece defaults,or whoever else, what did you expect they're not like smart as Americans
Click to expand...

Mate the only person talking about Greeks being stupid is you, already pegged as querulant delusions.

I have asked you before and will ask you again, replace the word Greece in this thread with New Zealand and see if you feel the same?

Any country can go down the toilet.
 
equitymate said:
Mate the only person talking about Greeks being stupid is you, already pegged as querulant delusions.

I have asked you before and will ask you again, replace the word Greece in this thread with New Zealand and see if you feel the same?

Any country can go down the toilet.
Click to expand...


Yes anything can happen, even to the US. But when epoeple hear itmight happen to the US they doubt it or suggest it is oa "Mad Max" proportions etc,... that's all I was trying to say, similar to Aaron Sice.
 
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