Architect vs Designer

G'day

Would appreciate any advice regarding the whole architect vs designer debate.

We are ready to do a major renovation on our SF Victorian in Northcote and first step is to make a decision about which way to go.

Im finding this first step quite difficult because it seems all designers and architects charge a fairly large fee just for a consultation and onsite visit. I hate the idea of paying someone 500 bucks only to find out i dont like their ideas, they are too pushy etc etc.

It seems strange that we can tender for a builder without builders asking for an upfront fee, but cant seem to do the same with an architect.

If anyone can recommend someone good in the inner North that would be great.
 
Ah, one of my favourite topics.
A good architect will give you a unique solution. But many people don't want that. Personally, I can't see the point of doing a big reno and not trying to make it interesting.
Being unique, it may cost more to build - less use of standard materials, dimensions etc.
I've used the same architect a couple of times.
If you go down the architect route, get some recommendations and go and meet them at their office. Ask to see what sort of work they do - good ones will have a slide show. It's important their style fits with you. Spend at least an hour with them and see if you get on - if you're looking at a big project, it's going to be a relationship that lasts at least a year and will get tense at times.
When you find one you like, tell them what you want to achieve and tell them your budget (keeping 10% up your sleeve). Tell them their fee has to come out of your budget.
A good architect will tell you you're having yourself on if he/she doesn't think what you want to achieve is possible.
I would then negotiate a concept fee i.e. a fee to give you a design (and revise it after a presentation). A good architect will take a detailed brief to find out how you live and they will spend some time on site.
Good architects won't come to site and give you a whole bunch of ideas free because 9 times out of 10 people would say thanks, see you later, and then run with the ideas. It's a business relationship. Ideas are their product.
On a big reno, I would be happy to pay at least $1,000 to get the design right. But that's me. (I paid that for my terrace reno about 15 years ago.)
Once the design is agreed upon, you may negotiate a fee to get the design past council. And then an hourly rate for project supervision.
Or you may go down the straight % route.
 
Hello

As I see it you have 2 questions:

Level of Fee to come and see.

With all due respect any person worth their salt will charge a fee to go over in depth ideas however it should be refundable if you go ahead. It seems what you want is to get a feel for the person so these rules apply:

  1. Select at least three professional and call them to book a short 15 to 30min appointment, outline project, your brief and that you just wish an initial “meet and greet”
  2. Make sure they specialist and/or have expertise in your area of needs (heritage residential, not industrial, commercial)
  3. Go to their office and/or have a short coffee together
  4. Get him/her show you their portfolio of work
  5. Ask about deadlines met or missed and why, costs blow out and why, how they approach work, get a feel for the person
  6. Ask about the PI insurance they carry professional associations etc…
  7. Make sure the person you engage is the person doing the job, not a junior (especially architects)
  8. Get three recent references relevant to your project; don’t be swayed by flash presentations/pictures, website (especially architects)

Case in point: I recently got a proposal from two suppliers one for web and one for green design for my FM company. Web sounded great, looked great but was slack and never came back 100%. Green design proposal was swift and looked great but the 3 refs showing minimal real experience, i.e. one never called back, one was simple walk through advice and third was a uni who had no idea of what was good or bad service so not that challenging for the consultant and thus not encouraging for my need.

Go away and do your research. There should be no fee for the above.

If you like all that invite a fee proposal and be willing to pay a minimal fee on the refund system if they ask. That way you don’t waste their time. Have a defined brief of what you want ready to submit and make it clear what you expect.

Selection of Architect v Designer.

Disclaimer: I use to work as designer and the architect v designer debate is close to my heart.

It is the individual's skill, ability, customer service and expertise that matters not the qualification.

Whilst the architects would like to tell you all designers are backyarders that is rubbish. They don’t tell you some of the best international award (who don’t discriminate between designers and architects) winning buildings in this country are designed by designers! :eek: They don’t mention 85% of all homes are completed by designers. They don’t tell you that some designers actually lecture to architect students at Uni. :rolleyes:

So nowadays unless the guy is $500 all-inclusive and only cash most professionals are just that.

Visit:

http://www.bdav.org.au/

http://www.architecture.com.au/i-cms?page=1

Are links to professional assoc in state of Vic. Again the rules above apply.
I would expect to pay in the order of $2000 for a professional custom design.

A key selection is real experience of costs. I run a commercial building company and I can tell you I had an architect swear to me black and blue his design had met the $2.5M budget and it was actually $4.5M when I simply added it up. He then replied well good design costs more!!! He got sacked. Building Designers work closer with building and usually have much better, real work knowledge of cost and with out the attitude that unfortunately some of the architect has.

It isn’t there fault. Uni are notorious for teaching aesthetics over everything else including build ability, cost control or practicality. And for those who think I am biased consider this:

Professional Indemnity Insurance for designer is a lot less than architects. Why? Because they make less mistakes and get sued a lot less. Insurance Companies don’t care what qualification is on the letterhead, and so shouldn’t you.

Regards, Peter:)
 
Great

Dear Depreciator and Peter.

Great advice - just what I needed.

I am more than happy to pay for a service and the strategies you have mentioned allow me to do this and also have some control over the outcome.

30 min quick consultation and ask for the cost to be deducated should they get the business.

Yes I agree that having a unique design is important. The thing with SF victorians is that there is a similarity between renovations. Good and bad in that I think the designs are fairly neutral and easy to draw up, but making them stand out a little will be important.

Hopefull we can do this using a few ideas that wont cost heeps in terms of construction. It will be double story but we interested in creating unique spaces using interesting materials (polished concrete floors for example, maybe some interesting wall paper), creative natural and artifical lighting, sculputers etc. Going for an earthy, simplistic, warm type of feel with a basic Victorian facade.

Will ring a few people from the BDAV website which appreciated.

Cheers
Aussie
 
Thanks depreciator and Peter, fabulous information and I'll be keeping it in mind when we get round to developing the ppor to achieve ocean views.
 
I always thought that

designers come up with fancy ideas
architects come up with fancy ideas that dont fall down in the first wind

like fashion designers, and the clothes you actually wear
 
I was worried about involving an architect. I was told to expect to add 15-20% to our total construction cost. But we saw a house we liked on the weekend and I knocked on the door and asked who designed it. The lady who lived there was proud of her home and we spent an hour with her discussing the project and getting a full guided tour. We decided to meet with her Architect to see what it would add to our home building project.

We took our floorplans to the Architect last night. We thought we had done a pretty good job along with our builder to get it all right. We asked her to see if she could give us some facade ideas and also to double check our floorpan for any adjustments she could suggest.

An hour later with a few deft strokes of a pen she changed our upper floor totally and made some significant changes to our lower floor. The result was amazing and Jenni and I walked out with broad smiles on our faces.

She is going to sketch up interior and exterior ideas that our builder can then quote and draw plans on.

She is billing us $55 ph for her time. Probably 5-6 hours total she said.

I am so happy we saw her and will happily pass on her details to anyone who wants them. She works from Belmont NSW but has done projects in Sydney and Bali according to her picture album.

Cheers,
 
Thanks depreciator and Peter, fabulous information and I'll be keeping it in mind when we get round to developing the ppor to achieve ocean views.

If I had something like ocean views then I reckon an Architect is an essential part of the deal.
 
Depreciator - the second last one is situated in Annandale - Is this yours??

Yep, that's the one. It's an IP now - I'm way too messy to live in a place like that. And it had no shed!
I enjoyed the whole architect/client process. The relationship ran for about 6 years because I did the reno myself (with a builder giving advice when I was doing scary things). It was a narrow, dark, 100 year old terrace house with pokey rooms.
Scott
 
Thanks

Yep, that's the one. It's an IP now - I'm way too messy to live in a place like that. And it had no shed!

++

Nice Joint - more upmarket than mine i expect. I have a budget of 200-250k.

Cheers
 
I am so happy we saw her and will happily pass on her details to anyone who wants them. She works from Belmont NSW but has done projects in Sydney and Bali according to her picture album.

Simon... I might take you up on that offer when I get back to Newwie

Cheers
Pulse
 
Good tos eemy comments was taken in good faith and not bitter flame.

Selecting a designer be it architect or building designer or even bespoke builder is like getting any professional such as selecting your banker or broker.

It is the person that matters. What they say, what others say about them and how they deliver on their promises.

I know some great architects and some poor designers and vica versa.

It is shame that is our Country that because of some outdated legislation set up in 1932 that there is such a class war that benefits no-one in the industry in my personal opinion.

Best of luck in your quest but I don’t recommend using a project builder designer/architect as they simply want to churn out the simplest house ASAP and build it. Great for investment, most times, but not PPOR.

Peter
 
Hi all,

We are using an architect at the moment. The block of land warrants it as it is river frontage.

Its a long story how we found our young architect but he is like gold. He works from home, has no business card and will only take on new clients who have been recommended to him. He has no overheads and therefore very afforable, one fee for absolutely everything...under 10k.

We also are going through a boutique builder, recommended to us by the architect who builds high spec homes without the jaw dropping price tag. Once again young bloke, taught by his father, small office, less overheads etc.
It is indeed the person that makes the deals. These two young men have vision and I hope integrity.

We are building in the West suburbs of Melbourne...I will post more about our building adventures later down the track.

Mrs Bird:)
 
Last edited:
Your situation sounds ideal. I would like to find the same.


So far so good but it took us six months to find the architect.

We went to two others, an architect another a draftsman, one couldnt even be bothered to return my call (friend worked for him and saw my message on his desk for 3 weeks) the other, couldnt care about his business as he was doing his own developments, his staff was actually quite openly hostile to us with our first meeting. Would not even look at our concept plans for another 6 months. I began to think that our money wasnt good enough.

So to find our talented architect after being knocked back a few times was such a relief.

I also want to add that a salesman from a reputable buiding company told us that to not even bother getting a quote from them unless we had at least
600k to spend on the build. At least he was being honest:confused:

Mrs Bird:)
 
Could I have contact details of the architect?

Hi Simon,
Would appreciate the contact details of the lady architect? Is she Newcastle based?

Thanks alot.
Serena

I was worried about involving an architect. I was told to expect to add 15-20% to our total construction cost. But we saw a house we liked on the weekend and I knocked on the door and asked who designed it. The lady who lived there was proud of her home and we spent an hour with her discussing the project and getting a full guided tour. We decided to meet with her Architect to see what it would add to our home building project.

We took our floorplans to the Architect last night. We thought we had done a pretty good job along with our builder to get it all right. We asked her to see if she could give us some facade ideas and also to double check our floorpan for any adjustments she could suggest.

An hour later with a few deft strokes of a pen she changed our upper floor totally and made some significant changes to our lower floor. The result was amazing and Jenni and I walked out with broad smiles on our faces.

She is going to sketch up interior and exterior ideas that our builder can then quote and draw plans on.

She is billing us $55 ph for her time. Probably 5-6 hours total she said.

I am so happy we saw her and will happily pass on her details to anyone who wants them. She works from Belmont NSW but has done projects in Sydney and Bali according to her picture album.

Cheers,
 
$55/hr? That's ridiculously cheap - may I please also have contact details, since I'm willing to pay that rate just for someone to go over my designs/concept plan out various blocks of land/unit complexes, since ime that one little idea that you didn't quite pick up on can make or break a design.

Does this lady do her own drafting also?
 
Back
Top