Aussie drug dealers (alleged)

[Mary]

As someone has mentioned, the only way to really get at the root of the problem is to decriminalise all drugs such as marijuana, heroin and amphetamines. All users would be registered and given their dose at a pharmacy.

This eliminates the black market (which removes the high cost of drugs) and also ensures that drugs are pharmacologically pure (not cut with other crap).

I think that in a 100 years or so, the people of the day will have a laugh at our insane laws on keeping drugs illegal, spending trillions on reinforcement, court costs, imprisonment etc... just as we do now at the prohibition of alcohol in the 1930's.

Re: Schapelle Corby, i'm not sure why a lot of people assume she is innocent. Technically from an Indonesian legal point of view she is 100% guilty of importing 4Kg of weed: It was in her luggage, therefore guilty.

However i cannot agree with this post :

She's guilty as sin, her brother is a big time dealer & her mate who was with her is a heavy weed smoker. Her only saving grace is the drugs were supposed to be unloaded in Sydney en-route.
How do I get to that conclusion?
The mates mum cleans house for one of our customers and she spilled the beans chapter and verse weeks ago, only hearsay I know but as believable as the crap in the papers.
Same old thing Aussie press reporting it as a poor innocent girl who faces the firing squad. In a few weeks time there will be a big expose on her drug dealing relative, she'll be forgotten about and life for the rest of us will go on as normal.

 

[Peter 14.7]

Cool, thanks for that Duncan. I'm actually quite nervous about travelling to Fiji cause of all this stuff with Schapelle. I mean, I know she got done in Bali, but it is still a cause of concern for me to go to any countries I'm not familiar with. I wouldn't be going at all (don't really have the money for it), but my sister is getting married over there so I feel I have no choice.

Good Point. I certainly would be wary.

Having read the posts and Aceys comments I think we are not conservative but realists.

Personally, I respect everyones opinion and right to freedom in what ever form. If someone thinks they are the third reincarnation of Budda all power to them.
If someone enjoys unconvential sexual pleasure, go for it.

But how do you measure what is acceptable and if so, as the mainsteam and hence conservative convention? Provided they respect the freedom of other and do not hurt others against their will or lack of judgement.

Our culture does not allow sex between as 18 year old with a 15 year old person. Yet we allow but do not condone a 45 year old having a 20 year old wife. Why, because we define at 18 a person is of age to make thier own choices and we hold evident that they have the freedom to even make the wrong choice.

As I believe in the right to personal freedom I accept the drugs debate is one of many faces. Cigarettes are legal, why not pot? Alcohol is legal but not driving whilst drunk. Why? Because of the risk to other you may cause. We define hard drugs as an unacceptable risk toother hence it is illegal.

They were aware of the risk and lived in country where they would not starve and had roof over thier head. Their decision was based on money and a personal choice.

They have thrown the dice and lost. They now must live with the consequences.

That is being a realist not a conservative. And here at SS we are pretty much realists hence the consensus.

Regards, Peter 147

 

[Kevin Hockey]

As someone has mentioned, the only way to really get at the root of the problem is to decriminalise all drugs such as marijuana, heroin and amphetamines.

Re: Schapelle Corby, i'm not sure why a lot of people assume she is innocent. Technically from an Indonesian legal point of view she is 100% guilty of importing 4Kg of weed: It was in her luggage, therefore guilty.

[/URL] :

How do I respond.

Obviously you haven't seen the damage I have to people and property. I was surprised to see Dunc suggest this as an option considering his wonderful post on healthy foods etc in a different post. Sorry, this is not an option in my opinion.

Schapelle, I thought our way was presumed innocent until proven guilty for one. She's innocent because the case is flimsy. Whilst the media can write crap at times they also always know a lot of inside knowledge which they can't relate but they almost always are spot on when they take sides. The media would not be pushing her case knowing she was guilty.

She is not presumed guilty, or innocent for that matter, by Indonesian law or any other law. That is a matter for the courts to decide. This article is enlightening regarding the case and worth the read http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/bulletin/site/articleIDs/5659AB9226A0D336CA256FD500161504.

Kev

www.kevinhockey.com.au

 

[Merovingian]

A better solution than cheap padlocks is coloured plastic "cable ties" available from Dick Smiths etc.... they have to be cut to open your luggage and cant simply be clicked shut like a padlock after its been picked.. If you note your luggage has a cable tie missing at the carousel, dont touch it (or put it straight down if you've already picked it up) and immediately alert the customs staff.

That is exactly what I did when I went to the Gold Coast earlier this year.

I put some on the zips of my bag, and my bag is not able to be opened without cutting the cable tie itself, as you said. I also carried a few extras tied up with an elastic band, and kept them in my pocket — just in case. (It could also be evidence that there was cable ties on the luggage before hand).

Once you get to your destination, (hotel, friend's place), just ask for a pair of scissors and voíla!

 

[Merovingian]

I'm off to Fiji in July. Certainly hope it's safer than Bali. I'm NEVER going there!!

Amen to that! You'd have to be pretty dense to go to Bali for a holiday...

I would never spend my tourism dollars in a country that supports giving a convicted terrorist a couple of years in prison, and an innocent girl life for drug smuggling.

If Corby is found guilty, and sentenced to life, I wonder how the Australian public would react...

If you see some of the Indonesians and Balinese opinions on Australians, they don't think very highly of us.

As for the nine Australians caught with drugs wrapped around their bodies, let them rot in prison.

 

[Mary]

Obviously you haven't seen the damage I have to people and property.

Schapelle, I thought our way was presumed innocent until proven guilty for one. She's innocent because the case is flimsy.

Kev

www.kevinhockey.com.au

Yes Kevin i have seen first hand the damage done by drugs including a close friend who OD'd on heroin and family members that have alcohol problems.

If decriminalisation is not an option, then what is?

The war on drugs continues and costs us trillions every year. At what point do we realise that the war on drugs will never be won?

The big money that can be made is too enticing for many people including those that are supposed to be fighting the war - a local example is the ceja taskforce in Victoria that has charged several police with murder and drug trafficking. The Vic drug force was disbanded several years ago due to massive corruption and drug use.

Schappelle's case is NOT flimsy - she was found with 4.1kg of weed in HER luggage. Many others before her have been convicted on this type of evidence.

 

[Mary]

Amen to that! You'd have to be pretty dense to go to Bali for a holiday...

WTF???

If Corby is found guilty, and sentenced to life, I wonder how the Australian public would react...

Probably with satisfaction that another drug pusher (alleged) is off the streets.

If you see some of the Indonesians and Balinese opinions on Australians, they don't think very highly of us.

Can't say i blame them if you've ever seen what the yobbos get up to in Kuta... not to mention the (alleged) drug pushers that travel there.

 

[duncan_m]

Excellent tip Duncan.... got any tips about how to undo the cable ties once you get there....since you checked in all scissors, knives & other sharp objects......

Get the hotel lobby to provide you with some scissors Its not a perfect solution... buts its the best I've seen.

 

[duncan_m]

How do I respond.

Obviously you haven't seen the damage I have to people and property. I was surprised to see Dunc suggest this as an option considering his wonderful post on healthy foods etc in a different post. Sorry, this is not an option in my opinion.

Heeeey, I never suggested this and I would be dead against decriminalising any drugs!

 

[Sunfish]

Yeah, what Schapelle's case has taught me is to put locks on absolutely everything that you take overseas

But aren't we led to believe the hash was put in her bag in Oz?

One problem with cable ties would be that you can't carry anything with you that could cut then at the other end. You're locked out until you can buy a pair of stout scissors and I doubt they are on sale at any airport. It aint easy!!!

Thommo

ps The drug smuggler hasn't been invented who could put anything extra into my lady's bag LOL

 

[duncan_m]

One problem with cable ties would be that you can't carry anything with you that could cut then at the other end. You're locked out until you can buy a pair of stout scissors and I doubt they are on sale at any airport. It aint easy!!!

Toe nail cutters are acceptable in hand luggage I'd think!

 

[Mary]

Toe nail cutters are acceptable in hand luggage I'd think!

No, i had mine confiscated last week. Perhaps there's a biz opp for a stand at all airports selling sharp pointy things for those arriving.

 

[Sunfish]

It's hard to pick out quotes to answer but I am a sh1t stirrer by nature, or possibly just a cynic who enjoys finding inconsistencies in pios arguments so I'll make a general rebuttal.

Every nation has its "bogies". The pollies can, and do, play that B string for all it's worth.

Hands up! Who voted Lib because Howard was (is) strong on illegal immigration? If you did how can you possibly disagree with Indonesia's "strong" stand on drugs? You've gotta have a rhino's hide to believe that what we do is OK because "they" violated a clearly written law but our spoilt brat kids (apologies to any who know the individuals in question, it is a general statement that our kids are spoilt and would certainly appear so Asians) can trample their country and culture, but that's OK because "they" get our tourist dollars.

Our treatment of illegals is inhumane and the Americans' treatment of the illegals in Guantanamo Bay goes against every Christian teaching I heard.

Without Christians, How could I be an Athiest?

Dammed Thommo

 

[pete_w]

Without Christians, How could I be an Athiest?

Doesn't matter, atheists dont believe in God, it has nothing to do with Christianity. You dont need Christians to not believe in God.

For the record i went on holiday to bali December 2002, nice place (quiet though at the time), nice people. Its different from mainland Indonesia.

as always - http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/

i havent really been paying attention to whats been going on, but from the comments here, theres a little bit of difference between speeding and the international smuggling of kilos of hardcore drugs. In general though, I dont agree with the death penalty.

 

[duncan_m]

But aren't we led to believe the hash was put in her bag in Oz?

One problem with cable ties would be that you can't carry anything with you that could cut then at the other end. You're locked out until you can buy a pair of stout scissors and I doubt they are on sale at any airport. It aint easy!!!

Thommo

ps The drug smuggler hasn't been invented who could put anything extra into my lady's bag LOL

It seems that the Transport Security authority in the USA recommend cable ties for securing baggage:

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/12/19/tsa.screening/

and

http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?content=09000519800038cc

 

[Merovingian]

WTF???

Sorry, my apologies. I was a bit worked up earlier.

What I really meant, and should have said, was:

With the "recent" events in Bali, namely the Bali bombings, and recently these drug trafficking allegations, who would feel safe going to Bali for a holiday? Personally I wouldn't, and many people I know feel the same.

 

[Kevin Hockey]

Heeeey, I never suggested this and I would be dead against decriminalising any drugs!

Sorry Dunc, now I can't find the comment, not sure if it was edited out but obviously Mary read it too. As I said, for you to have made the comment would have been a surprise to me.

Mary - if you think the Aussie public will be satisfied to see Corby go to Jail for life you are deluded. The Australian public are highly supportive of her plus no Aussie would accept her getting life while the Bali bomb mastermind gets 3 years.

And how does giving drugs to people actually help. How do you tell your children it is wrong when it is handed out to you by professional medical staff. Decriminalisation is not the answer, fact is we can only deal with it the best way possible, it's not going away. At least now it's not widely considered acceptable.

Kev

www.kevinhockey.com.au

 

[duncan_m]

Sorry Dunc, now I can't find the comment, not sure if it was edited out but obviously Mary read it too. As I said, for you to have made the comment would have been a surprise to me.

www.kevinhockey.com.au

The comment that first suggests (I think) legalising drugs was this one (not mine:

There's always been a simple answer - remove the $ incentive.

Certainly was not my quote, god forbid...

I dont believe in legalising any illicit drugs and in fact I'd be quite happy to see even more drugs made illegal.

 

[Les]

G'day Kev and Duncan,

Look in the earliest posts (1 - 8) for the source:-

Rix made a tongue in cheek comment re legalising (followed by a smilie) in answer to Acey's comment.

Regards,

 

[Mary]

Mary - if you think the Aussie public will be satisfied to see Corby go to Jail for life you are deluded. The Australian public are highly supportive of her plus no Aussie would accept her getting life while the Bali bomb mastermind gets 3 years.

Kevin, i also don't think the Aussie public will be satisfied in seeing Corby go to jail for life (especially considering the lenient sentences received by Samudra, Bashir and Hambali)... what i actually said was that the Aussie public may feel some "satisfaction that another drug pusher (alleged) is off the streets."

But i think you yourself may be deluded about how much support she actually has. Of course the local press (Packer & Murdoch) is obliged to support her considering she's an Aussie. But i know many people who also think she may be guilty and deserves to be punished. As i've said, if YOU rocked up to Bali and 4.1 kg of weed was found in YOUR luggage, you will be charged: technically speaking, she was found with drugs in her luggage = guilty.
I'm not sure why you're so adament that the drugs weren't hers and belonged to some bag carrier in Sydney. That's the defence's argument and it's the best they can come up with considering the evidence.

And how does giving drugs to people actually help. How do you tell your children it is wrong when it is handed out to you by professional medical staff. Decriminalisation is not the answer, fact is we can only deal with it the best way possible, it's not going away. At least now it's not widely considered acceptable.

I've never said that giving out drugs actually help. What i said was that by decriminalising drugs, you get rid of the criminal element. I'm sure you're aware of the huge costs involved in law enforcement which doesn't work.

Doctors hand out a lot of dangerous drugs; just because you've got a prescription, doesn't make it right. If Decriminalisation is not the answer then what is? It's obvious that we aren't dealing with the issue in the best way possible as evidenced by all the problems drugs create. Perhaps alcohol and tobacco are considered more acceptable simply because they are legal drugs?