"Australian Exceptionalism"

Underperforming? Corrupt? Scumbags? Typically extreme adjectives. Please explain?

Um, let's see. :rolleyes:

The democratically elected leader was taken down by a pack of faceless men in a backroom coup, delivering a gala performance thereafter that the public - you'll have to admit - widely admires as deserving of a thorough electoral enema.

I'm not saying the Labor Party singularly represents underperformance, corruption and scumbaggery (they undoubted must be kind enough to share that honour with the Coalition parties), but right now the Labor Party certainly does have this smell decidedly emanating from it.

But's let's also be fair: There are good people on both sides of our political divide - or at least many whose intentions are good - just as there are many who are self-serving hacks on each side. The actual tragedy is that our party-political system has reduced every one of them to votes on the floor, reducing their propensity for individual upstanding community-building and moral stature to all-too-common zombie-like parody.

Now please, you tell me Evan, what makes you genuinely proud to be a Labor supporter this year? Cuddling up to economically-suicidal Greens, caving in on a meritable mining tax, attempting to offshore the protection of human rights, etc, etc, or simply keeping the Coalition out of power for another year?

If (and be honest, only) the last, precisely why? Specifically, do you actually think it is better to abandon principles simply to hold power; or do you actually and fantastically believe that being in power will inspire a return to principles? Because without principles, the Labor Party is no different, nor at all any better, than the Coalition on its worst day!

Basically, where you are wrong (excuse just one more adjective, please), is in thinking that your opponents in politics are evil. I'm telliing you that they're not: They simply don't agree that your solutions will deliver the same equitable and enviable results that they also want. They are proposing their own solutions, and are mostly genuinely offering them up moreover for democratic consideration.

But, both sides of politics in Australia today (just like as in the rest of the free world) harbour anti-democratic tendencies, and it is exposing and criticising these efforts that deserves our true effort and eternal vigilance.

Democracy requires at least two differing public policy platforms in constant combat for public support: Just as the ultimate triumph of either will signal the end of democracy itself. Uncritical support for any faction of politics doesn't strengthen our democracy, it simply delivers it further into the hands of the faceless men on both sides of the divide that would seize any opportunity to weaken it.

I'm saying that if the Labor Party doesn't stand for democracy and doesn't in its every action to live up to that commitment, its isn't worthy of our support as citizens (that being the only thing created by man that approaches the measure of merit of anything created by nature).

Explanation enough?
 
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what i dont get is why people support this bunch of fools. From the hysterical and ridiculous right wing shock jocks to the bunch of 'NO NO NO' permanent whingers in the Lib/ Nat party. Isn't it obvious what a bunch of losers they are?


The reason my dear boy why you 'don't get it', is because you and the people who are like you and subscribe to your way of thinking are in the minority and refuse to acknowledge it.

No, it is not obvious to the people of WA.

No, it is not obvious to the people of Victoria.

No, it is massively clear to the people of NSW - ring any bells ??

We are just about to find out, depsite the good personal work of Anna Bligh, how much your view is in the minority with the people of Qld.

We saw your view take a beating in the last Federal election, enough to lose you 16 seats, the biggest swing against a first term Govt - ouch.

Speaking with some folk yesterday, apparently the majority of the people in SA are lining up to kick your viewpoint to left field as well.

You'll be left with the Green riddled Tasmanians (permanently) and the hopelessly Green compromised Federal schmozzle (temporarily)....

As I've mentioned before, your viewpoint, whilst being amply supported here in this thread, doesn't enjoy the same support in the wider community.

Your arguments simply don't wash with the majority of voting folks.


Maybe the Australian electorate doesn't think enough to realise it. (I'll refrain from mentioning this forum) Do they just follow like sheep? Dunno...........sigh.......

Belittling other viewpoints doesn't make yours correct.

Only securing a majority vote makes one's viewpoint 'correct' in a democracy.
 
You keep banging on about the states going to Liberal. But at the moment, federal govt is Labor and the Libs chances of getting in are decreasing every day that tool Abbott is there.

Since Fatty O'Barrell has been in here in NSW, they have been pretty hopeless. Like the Libs are going to run this state (or any state) better then Labor, yeah right. And even if they do get in, i a few years it will swing back to Labor. As politics does.

I could also tell you that in surveys done with younger Australians when asked "what is the biggest issue facing Australia" a large majority answered "the environment"

Which tells me that the green issue is a growing cause and old school, economic rationalist Aussies will eventually be left behind.

The greens/left is not a fad, its the future.

The reason my dear boy why you 'don't get it', is because you and the people who are like you and subscribe to your way of thinking are in the minority and refuse to acknowledge it.

No, it is not obvious to the people of WA.

No, it is not obvious to the people of Victoria.

No, it is massively clear to the people of NSW - ring any bells ??

We are just about to find out, depsite the good personal work of Anna Bligh, how much your view is in the minority with the people of Qld.

We saw your view take a beating in the last Federal election, enough to lose you 16 seats, the biggest swing against a first term Govt - ouch.

Speaking with some folk yesterday, apparently the majority of the people in SA are lining up to kick your viewpoint to left field as well.

You'll be left with the Green riddled Tasmanians (permanently) and the hopelessly Green compromised Federal schmozzle (temporarily)....

As I've mentioned before, your viewpoint, whilst being amply supported here in this thread, doesn't enjoy the same support in the wider community.

Your arguments simply don't wash with the majority of voting folks.




Belittling other viewpoints doesn't make yours correct.

Only securing a majority vote makes one's viewpoint 'correct' in a democracy.
 
Since Fatty O'Barrell has been in here in NSW, they have been pretty hopeless. Like the Libs are going to run this state (or any state) better then Labor, yeah right.

Surely even the most rusted on Labor supporter in NSW could see that NSW Labor in their last term was one of the worst governments ever to be inflicted on an Australian state ever?

I cannot believe there are people here that need examples of it? Just when you thought it could get no worse for NSW Labor they managed to trump theselves every time.

At least it was good for laughs I guess.

Federal Labor have some points to be commended on. NSW Labor???
 
Yes, NSW Labor were so bad i didnt vote for them last election. And i couldnt vote conservative. So i voted Green.

Looks like Barry might be heading down the same path.

Surely even the most rusted on Labor supporter in NSW could see that NSW Labor in their last term was one of the worst governments ever to be inflicted on an Australian state ever?

I cannot believe there are people here that need examples of it? Just when you thought it could get no worse for NSW Labor they managed to trump theselves every time.

At least it was good for laughs I guess.

Federal Labor have some points to be commended on. NSW Labor???
 
Looks like Barry might be heading down the same path.

O'Farrel, is the kind of Liberal I like from a similar cut to Malcolm Turnbull.

a belief in individuals rights that the party was founded on. OK sure modern society has moved on and what was liberal then is probably conservative now but should they not move with the times rather than becoming ever more conservative? Gay marriage is but only one amoung a string of policy positions that make me think it is false advertising that they can even claim to be the Australian Liberal party.

Way off topic but a good (but long) article on the liberal website:

http://www.liberal.org.au/Latest-News/2010/03/12/In-Defence-of-Liberty.aspx

I suspect the problem is that the likes of both Barry and Mal potentially over estimate the intelligence of the electorate but Barry has made it to power so anything is possible for Mal as well.

Anyway, I will let you know evand when Barry starts going down the same path as NSW Labor had. We got it in the papers and news here in Perth NSW Labor were so bad. I have heard next to nothing about O'farrel after he was elected so I suggest at least he is not doing anything particularly badly to merit national newstime as yet.
 
I read to the 2nd paragraph and couldnt read any more. Its saying the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, fair enough. Tho its an American term, not one of the RSL.

Anyway, the part that states that we are "fighting against terrorists who threaten our values etc"

What a load of Liberal claptrap. (was it written by Hockey)

The thing reminded me instantly of Asama Bin Laden's response to GW Bush when Bush stated that terrorists are jealous of and want to attack our freedoms and that is the only reason the US is fighting them.

And Bin Laden replied, "you dont see us attacking Sweden" which is among the freest country on earth. Typical Liberal/Republican scare scaremongering rubbish.

We are not fighting terrorists to safeguard our lifestyle and freedoms, we are fighting them because the US is and they are fighting them because of the attacks they have made on US assets.

They have made those attacks in response to the US meddling in the middle east, support of Israel, oil and the massive US defence contractor money.

And lie after lie US, UK and Aus govts have fed to their own people.
 
I read to the 2nd paragraph and couldnt read any more. Its saying the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, fair enough. Tho its an American term, not one of the RSL.

Evan

I'm the same as you, prefer Australian terms as opposed to American terms,

E.g. labour as opposed to labor.

Cheers

Pete
 
I'm with evan 100% on his previous reply

From the website: And today we are waging war against terrorists and religious fanatics who threaten the values we believe are essential for human dignity and welfare.

The British government said this was not true and did not warrant escalating security alerts etc in the country....

I find it sad that people are lied to this badly and they still support the people who lie to them :confused::rolleyes::eek::(
 
Touche.... DOnt even know how I managed that.

Back to the topic, I do think Evan made some actual legitimate points in his post, which your response failed to address ..

Jaycee

You're going to be a very busy boy pointing out all the times every point in a post is not answered.

Hope this answer addresses all your points.

D/mn, more space wasted.

Cheers

Pete
 
Jaycee

You're going to be a very busy boy pointing out all the times every point in a post is not answered.

Hope this answer addresses all your points.

D/mn, more space wasted.

Cheers

Pete


Yeah I was hoping you would actually contribute something after my post not waste more space but there you go
 
The thing reminded me instantly of Asama Bin Laden's response to GW Bush when Bush stated that terrorists are jealous of and want to attack our freedoms and that is the only reason the US is fighting them.

And Bin Laden replied, "you dont see us attacking Sweden" which is among the freest country on earth. Typical Liberal/Republican scare scaremongering rubbish.

We are not fighting terrorists to safeguard our lifestyle and freedoms, we are fighting them because the US is and they are fighting them because of the attacks they have made on US assets.

They have made those attacks in response to the US meddling in the middle east, support of Israel, oil and the massive US defence contractor money.

.

well guys you have heard it here first, by no other than from the boys own lips.

According to Evand, Bin Laden is the arbitor who justifies who deserves terrorism actions and who doesnt. According to Evan, if its not in our backyard, then we should ignore it.
 
The thing reminded me instantly of Asama Bin Laden's response to GW Bush when Bush stated that terrorists are jealous of and want to attack our freedoms and that is the only reason the US is fighting them.

And Bin Laden replied, "you dont see us attacking Sweden" which is among the freest country on earth. Typical Liberal/Republican scare scaremongering rubbish.

We are not fighting terrorists to safeguard our lifestyle and freedoms, we are fighting them because the US is and they are fighting them because of the attacks they have made on US assets.

They have made those attacks in response to the US meddling in the middle east, support of Israel, oil and the massive US defence contractor money.

.

lol Evand you are a major tosser, how about googling Sweden terrorism.

Seems like there was a terrorism plot there just last month involving extremists of the bin laden kind.

Oh but it still doesnt change the underlying story, we just want to be green, if its not in our back yard don't get involved. Nothing to do with us, we just need our carbon tax.

And there you have it, thank god we do have a democracy. The 'wool' can be pulled over the masses some of the time, but at least over time the value of that 'wool' will be assessed by the masses and they will vote according to updated information.

God Bless Democracy and God Bless the passage of the labour party in near times to come.

Your lunatic Greens party should do fine, but they will go back into the margins (10-15% of the votes without a major party backing). The labour party will be the looser.
 
well guys you have heard it here first, by no other than from the boys own lips.

According to Evand, Bin Laden is the arbitor who justifies who deserves terrorism actions and who doesnt. According to Evan, if its not in our backyard, then we should ignore it.

what a fkin joke......
 
lol Evand you are a major tosser, how about googling Sweden terrorism.

Seems like there was a terrorism plot there just last month involving extremists of the bin laden kind.

Oh but it still doesnt change the underlying story, we just want to be green, if its not in our back yard don't get involved. Nothing to do with us, we just need our carbon tax.

And there you have it, thank god we do have a democracy. The 'wool' can be pulled over the masses some of the time, but at least over time the value of that 'wool' will be assessed by the masses and they will vote according to updated information.

God Bless Democracy and God Bless the passage of the labour party in near times to come.

Your lunatic Greens party should do fine, but they will go back into the margins (10-15% of the votes without a major party backing). The labour party will be the looser.

What an unpleasant post that typifies everything wrong with modern neo-con thinking.
 
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