Can landlord has the rights to see the rent application???

[Superstitionist]

The agent told me it is confidential as it contains bank account and personal details of the tenant, so there is no way he would disclose it to anyone, including the landlord.

I thought he is acted on my behalf to manage the property.....am I totally wrong here.....

Super.

 

[rugrat]

I would have thought it would be fine for the Landlord to see it???

 

[Pushka]

Sounds like the old ' Privacy' line - an excuse to get out of doing something, or revealing something. I always think these 'bank details' things are silly; every cheque you write has your bank details on it!

 

[Propertunity]

I would have thought it perfectly OK too. Most tenant application forms have a waiver of privacy provisions, that they sign off on, something like: "I understand that information provided by me may be disclosed to, and further information obtained from, referees named in this application and other relevant third parties."

I think as a LL you fit the "other relevant third parties" category.

 

[Sheryn]

The agent told me it is confidential as it contains bank account and personal details of the tenant, so there is no way he would disclose it to anyone, including the landlord.

I thought he is acted on my behalf to manage the property.....am I totally wrong here.....

Super.

My PM has shown me completed applications before especially when they have a lot to choose from!


Regards
Sheryn

 

[sunshine]

I have had access to them for my NSW IPs, but access not available for Qld IPs.

Thinking further though, the Qld applications were far more complex than the simple old NSW application forms (and ex PM!).

Sunshine

 

[Strannik]

of course he can. landlord is the one who makes final decision, so he needs to see all the paperwork submitted by tenants to make an informed decision.

agent only serves as a filter to filter out bad applications. unless of course you want to delegate all your decision making to the agent.

 

[josko]

I have had trouble with this before in QLD.

I wanted the tenant's details and the Managing Agent faxed me through the lease with ALL details except the tenant's name whited out!

I eventually got my way but I do remember them ranting on about some privacy protection laws. Ridiculous - if you weren't paying for management you would have those details yourself!

Regards JO

 

[Superstitionist]

I wanted the tenant's details and the Managing Agent faxed me through the lease with ALL details except the tenant's name whited out!

My situation is totally opposite to yours, my agent only told me the name and the date of birth of the tenant, nothing else.

Any government body (or no such a thing) that I can find out my rights with the agent...

Super.

 

[Nathan]

By law you own the file, the agent is there to act on your behalf. If my agent said that, id tell them to have the file ready for my new PM to pick up in 10 mins.

However, i dont worry about that stuff, i tell the agent to put them if they think they should. At end of day, its going to be agent job to chase the $$ from the tenant if any incident occours.

That additude of no u cant look would be a good enough reason for me too sack the managing agent IMO.

 

[HiEquity]

That additude of no u cant look would be a good enough reason for me too sack the managing agent IMO.

+1 Sack them and say you are self managing. So then who will they have to hand the files to....?

 

[Strannik]

by the way, ask the agent to send you a sample application form, and see what privacy clause do they have in there.

 

[twobobsworth]

why would you want the info anyway. If you want to micro manage, don't worry about a PM and save yourself the money.

 

[BayView]

why would you want the info anyway. If you want to micro manage, don't worry about a PM and save yourself the money.

All the above arguments are valid, but this is the one I support.

We pay the PM to do all that work, so let them do it.

 

[Perp]

I think as a LL you fit the "other relevant third parties" category.

Actually, you're more than a third party - you are a party to the contract; the real estate agent is the third party!

of course he can. landlord is the one who makes final decision, so he needs to see all the paperwork submitted by tenants to make an informed decision.

agent only serves as a filter to filter out bad applications.

Maybe in your world! I don't think this is the norm.

why would you want the info anyway. If you want to micro manage, don't worry about a PM and save yourself the money.

Like BayView, I do think that you should be able to see the application if you want to, but I don't get why you'd want to.

I suspect that most agencies would be happy for you to have the information, but would be more concerned about the handling of the information if they mail/fax/email it to you. The agents undoubtedly have protocols within their office for keeping information confidential, but when it goes outside their office, they have no idea how you'll deal with it. They don't want to be responsible for the tenant's confidential information being found in landfill as a result of a landlord's sloppy handling. (And I don't blame them.)

Has anybody who's had difficulty tried offering to go in to the agent's office to view the application? I suspect that would get a warmer reception, because then there's no opportunity for the real estate agent being held responsible for you "losing" or "misplacing" the information. My agent has been happy to tell me absolutely anything that I want to know, but has never sent me an application form.

 

[Superstitionist]

why would you want the info anyway. If you want to micro manage, don't worry about a PM and save yourself the money.

In fact, I don't want the info, I just want to figure out if I want to, do I have the rights.

The story goes like this, after the first 15 min open inspection, the agent told me there are 6 applications come through, but only 3 can consider, and he half joking to say that it is quite hard for him to choose as they are all good, then I also half joking to say that why don't you let me have a look at the application, may be I could help you out, from then, the privacy act, confidential, blah blah blah started to kick in.....

Super.

 

[HiEquity]

Like BayView, I do think that you should be able to see the application if you want to, but I don't get why you'd want to.

Hi Tracey

I suspect if you are a bit new to either property investing or a particular PM then the amount of capital at risk may cause you to want to micro-manage for awhile so you are fully across what's going on. Once you're comfortable with how it's all going after a couple of years you may then feel like relaxing the reins a bit. I can perfectly understand wanting to know everything though. If I wasn't so busy at work I would be micro-managing more but I just accept my returns are going to be sub-optimal with PM costs and decisions for the benefit of spending my spare time with the kids and not adding extra stress I don't need at this point in time. The result is still much better than not investing at all...

The agents undoubtedly have protocols within their office for keeping information confidential, but when it goes outside their office, they have no idea how you'll deal with it. They don't want to be responsible for the tenant's confidential information being found in landfill as a result of a landlord's sloppy handling. (And I don't blame them.)

This is just a misunderstanding of the agent's rights and obligations. The LL (and the LL's agents) has to keep the information confidential. If there was a problem with information getting into the wrong hands, the LL is responsible and can be sued as the LL bears the lease obligations to the tenant. There is no contract between the tenant and PM. If the source of the leak was the agent, the LL should be able to turn around and sue the agent in turn for a breach of their agency agreement - assuming the privacy (and other) rights and obligations in the lease are reflected in said agreement which may not be the case!

If the source of the leak was the LL well they should have known better and can't blame anyone but themselves...

The lesson here is to be fully aware of what your PM is signing you up for because that is exactly what they are doing!

 

[Perp]

This is just a misunderstanding of the agent's rights and obligations. The LL (and the LL's agents) has to keep the information confidential. If there was a problem with information getting into the wrong hands, the LL is responsible and can be sued as the LL bears the lease obligations to the tenant. There is no contract between the tenant and PM.

I would be interested to hear from a lawyer, but since the information is collected before a lease is created, could relate to several potential properties, and may not result in any lease, I'm pretty sure that the parties to the lease are irrelevant, and that landlords wouldn't be responsible for the PM's handling of confidential information. An obligation to adhere to privacy laws is created between the agent and the applicant, by virtue of the applicant providing the information to the agent.

Besides which, most landlords would qualify as a small business (defined as turnover < $3M pa) and be exempt from compliance anyway.

I do think this is a potential legal minefield for the agents, but not for landlords, and thus their caution in sharing confidential information would appear reasonable.

 

[HiEquity]

I would be interested to hear from a lawyer,

Likewise - there are a myriad of impacts from Common Law, Privacy Legislation (such as your link) and the provisions of the RTA as well as individual lease and agency agreements.

However, while the specifics may not be completely clear the principles really are (to me at least) - any tenancy application is made to the owner of the property. The PM is just the owner's agent - nothing more. The case of self managing makes this clear - all the rights and obligations associated with dealing with the application/s and drawing up leases belong to the owner of the property and the applicant. Some of those rights and obligations are then put in turn upon the PM through the agency agreement so the owner has some recourse if the PM stuffs it up.

You are right though that there may also be an express or implied agreement directly between the applicant and the agent in that the applicant provides the information for the purpose of acquiring a (any) tenancy and the PM gets a commercial benefit through the fees associating with managing said tenancy. This would create a direct obligation between the applicant and agent to keep the information confidential. However, it would also be implied that submitting this information to any prospective LL would be a reasonable "permitted use" of the information for the agent. If the prospective LL then distributed the information widely I would argue the most likely path a civil case would take would be direct to the LL in accordance with the paragraph above in that it would be unreasonable for the LL to distribute the information, while it was reasonable for the PM to submit the information to the prospective LL.

If the PM distributed the information widely, there is the possibility of a direct case between applicant and PM based on their express or implied agreement.

Either way, the LL has every right to view an application made by a prospective tenant and pursue the permitted background checks etc. themselves. Or they may choose to delegate that task to their agent...

I do think this is a potential legal minefield for the agents, but not for landlords, and thus their caution in sharing confidential information would appear reasonable.

I take it the other way - the obligations of an agent are less onerous, forming only part of those on a LL, as outlined in the agency agreement and associated legislation. But we're obviously not lawyers!

 

[crc_error]

In fact, I don't want the info, I just want to figure out if I want to, do I have the rights.

The story goes like this, after the first 15 min open inspection, the agent told me there are 6 applications come through, but only 3 can consider, and he half joking to say that it is quite hard for him to choose as they are all good, then I also half joking to say that why don't you let me have a look at the application, may be I could help you out, from then, the privacy act, confidential, blah blah blah started to kick in.....

Super.

what sort of crap is this? the agent is acting on your behalf. The applications are to you for your property, and nothing to do with the agent.

Sounds like to me the agent is spinning crap, and doesn't want to get caught out.

If I had 6 applications, I would expect to be able to see all of them to make up my mind.. if the agent was not willing to do this, I would choose another agent. My agent runs through each application with my over the phone, and from there gives me her feedback and thoughts, in the end I decide who gets accepted.