Can students AVOID HECS by doing these things?

[Pushka]

And my son, doing commerce, is on $8000 a year for four years. So $32,000 for him. It is 20% discount if you pay before the reckoning day (sometime in March and then again in August) and then 10% if you pay after that, for amounts over $500. I can quite easily imagine a HECS bill of $60K or more for Medical/Dentistry etc, because four years ago the Unis were allowed to increase their fees by 25% in 1 year - my eldest son had already started his course so he missed on that hike, but his friends who deferred a year to do the gap, got caught up as they had not started their course, even though they had accepted a place the year prior.

So count yourself lucky Sue, you studied under the 'cheaper' system. At least there are no compulsory Union fees due now. Could never understand why single male and female students aged 17 years had to subsidise those with children!

Also, if you have a HECS debt, then I believe that negative gearing is calculated AFTER the HECS component is deducted, when income (pre deductions) reaches the trigger amount. So having IP's and a HECS debt is not nice!

 

[wylie]

So count yourself lucky Sue, you studied under the 'cheaper' system. At least there are no compulsory Union fees due now. Could never understand why single male and female students aged 17 years had to subsidise those with children!

I don't understand this. How did young singles subsidise those with children? I didn't go to uni, so it is new to me.

 

[marg4000]

Student Union fees were the one thing that made me REALLY cranky.

3 kids x 3 degrees (plus 2 masters, plus 1 grad cert) at around $200 or more per semester (thankfully can't remember just how much) means that our family contributed thousands to the student union. Never gained a single benefit, apparently the main benefit was subsidised child care. Lots went to the ALP for campaign funds.

We had a very good state high school nearby so we didn't pay any school fees for the high school years apart from subject charges. So we paid half the HECS for each kid's first degree.

It is not all or nothing. If you can't pay the whole semester up front then you can pay a portion of it and still get the discount. Our kids did this when they could out of their part time earnings. Even a couple of hundred dollars each semester makes a difference.

It's quite a few years ago, things may have changed. Our son is on his second masters but his work are paying for it.
Marg

 

[natmarie73]

Where rae thes $40k to $60k figures coming from?

Depending on the industry you get into after graduating the salaries can be huge. I know for a fact that OHS grads going into the larger mining, oil and gas and mineral processing industries are starting on $60,000 to $80,000 and have even heard that some are on $100,000 (don't know if the last one is true though or just a rumour).

Graduate nurses and teachers are starting on around $45,000

Engineers I don't know, but surely it would be around the $80K mark as would dentists, doctors etc.

 

[RPI]

One way that you can not pay Hec's by living off Equity, if you are not paying tax your not paying HECS. Just a thought.

 

[kegger]

Shonna, my HECS costs me about $80 week in cash flow. I will be rolling it into my LOC in May and increasing my cash flow, as the interest on the $8k left on my HECS will not be anywhere near $80 week....plus I need the cash right now !

 

[Xenia]

Higher education is a choice, you choose to study at university and the government allows you to have a dept that is payable after you earn a certain amount and that debt can be wiped out under certain criteria.

No bank would ever lend under the linient conditions that HECS debts are lended.

I don't believe that the government or society or anyone else owes anyone an education. It is a personal choice.

Is it ethical then to be discussing schemes to not repay a debt that you chose to take out?

 

[MarkB]

Of course, if you want a degree you don't really have a choice...

Depending on what you want to study, there is a choice.

Open Universities Australia (a co-operative of several Australian universities) offers distance education degrees on a quad-mester basis [4 study periods per year]. The fees are lower than for equivalent degrees studied face to face and, if you're a hard worker, you can either finish the degree faster than an internal undergrad can, or maintain f/t employment while you study p/t.

Want to be a lawyer, but can't stomach the debt that accompanies an LLB? Study for the Legal Practitioners Admissions Board's Diploma in Law that is taught by the Law Extension Committee at the University of Sydney. The DipLaw has the same standing as an LLB, but assessment is 100% exam based.

So, for some people there is a choice (and those choices don't have the same costs as a normal degree attached to them).

Though most 17 and 18 year olds choosing their degrees aren't aware of them.

Is it ethical then to be discussing schemes to not repay a debt that you chose to take out?

Excellent point.

M

 

[wylie]

Higher education is a choice, you choose to study at university and the government allows you to have a dept that is payable after you earn a certain amount and that debt can be wiped out under certain criteria....

Is it ethical then to be discussing schemes to not repay a debt that you chose to take out?

Xenia, I am not trying to find a way for my sons to avoid a debt illegally. I am simply trying to work out whether having my son work for one year prior to entering uni might save us/him $40K or so, which is how it was put to me.

Obviously, like many stories, it was wrong, but I feel sure that if you had a choice of working for a year and saving $40K or $60K you would do it, or at the very least you would look into it.

I thought it was too simplistic to be true, because if it was true, every man and his dog would be taking a gap year in order to escape (or considerably reduce) the fees. I simply wanted to know if anybody knew the answer.

Thanks for the replies everybody.

 

[lizzie]

Having the gap year and being eligible for austudy does not eliminate the payment of HECS. You also need to earn income during the gap year, not just have a break to qualify for it. And family assets may come into play also.

family assets don't come into play because, if you are over 18 and have earnt the $17k (may be more now) than you are considered an independant adult - regardless of your living situation.

 

[wish-ga]

Mature age is for people 25 and over. It comes with it's own set of criteria. Lower fees is not one of them.

If you do a degree. Pay back the government. Debt will not be wiped just because you go offshore.

HECCS is the taxpayer spotting you the cost of your fees (very little interest). Society's way of trying to ensure we have nurses/teachers/scientists/ethnographers.

User pays.
If you get your degree and start earning. Pay back the amt it cost.
If you do a few subjects and decide uni isn't for you. Pay back however much you chewed through.

It is a privilege to live in a country that allows people who seek an education to obtain one. THEN pay back the fees. Many countries only those who pay up front get the chance.

Education is like your petrol or electricity.
You use it you pay for it.

 

[Pushka]

Lizzie, I hope you are right, but when I looked into it for my son (who does earn something like this) I saw all this stuff about assets etc. I found the info really confusing. Now, you have inspired me to look again!

OK, on a quick look I think you have to be 25 plus to qualify. Back again after more looks....

 

[JoyBoy]

Forgot to mention - if you are working in the field you are studying (as I was, for postgrad study anyway), you can actually claim the amounts you defer on your tax. At the time, this was called PELS (postgrad education loans scheme). It was essentially exactly the same as HECS and appeared on the same statements etc.

This is not correct.

HECS/HELP etc is not deductible because you're essentially already getting a deduction because of the concessions. That is, a HECS sponsored course is significantly cheaper than a full fee paying course.

Have a read of ATO ID 2002/463 Self-education expenses - PELS

http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.h...T=99991231235958&recnum=1&tot=36&pn=ALL:::ALL

 

[Pushka]

I don't understand this. How did young singles subsidise those with children? I didn't go to uni, so it is new to me.

Hey Wylie, when the compulsory Union fees were stopped last year, one of claims was that this would impact on people with children who were studying, because the Union Fees were subsidising Child Care costs for them! Which I believe to be an inappopriate way of spending these Fees. Oh yeah, and political parties and the like.

I have nothing against a compulsory Union fee, but it should be spent on buying and upgrading all Uni facilities (like libraries, Toilets, etc etc) and not on subsidising child care costs.

When I went to University it was free, and there was not the shortage of Doctors, teachers, Nurses etc that there are now. I think society owes itself to train people in those areas it needs to survive. Students spend several years studying while their mates are earning.

So if there are perfectly legal ways to not have to pay HECS fees, then of course you should look at these options. There is nothing morally wrong about that.

Goodness, a great majority of people would say that negative gearing is dodging paying taxes too, especially with depreciation deductions and should be stopped!

 

[Minx]

Wow. So many misunderstandings and error in this thread.

I'm a 3rd year full time student whilst whilst working full time. My degree is directly related to my profession.

I wish I could claim my HECS on tax. I can't.

However I claim books, stationary, computer, my new laser printer, internet, parking permit and car. I work shift work so i'm driving straight from uni to work and vice versa.

As I earn over the threshold I have to pay back tax and it sure hurts. However as Australians everybody has the opportunity to go to uni if they achieve the right score to get into the course the want, or by doing pathways (completing a tafe course and getting good grades is a way to get into the uni course that you want to do which must be related to the tafe course. Often, a year of the uni course can be deducted).
Thank god it's not like the USA here. Students don't get subsidised funding there, it all has to be paid up front and we are talking about cost FROM 12k a year. This does not include living expenses on campus etc. This is the reason why parents in th US open "college accounts" when their children are born.

Post grad courses are approx 12-15k a year. Post grad courses are not subsidised as opposed to undergrad which are. However as a post grad student you can take the offer of using HECS-HELP (a loan) to pay this and pay it back like paying your HECS.
Of course this is not applicable for overseas students who must pay full fee or students who have been accepted in a full fee course (generally because they did not obtain strong enough grades or placements are competitive thus some missing out).

The whole gap year thingy is fine to get Austudy, however the student must earn over a certain amount (around the 18k mark) so they are self sufficient. Personally I would never do this, and don't do it now as Austudy is a pittance and would rather work and study at the same time.
A friend from uni had her Austudy cut as she was living with her boyfriend. They took his wage into account. I'm not sure if they would consider the parents income the child lived at home.

I have never been eligible for Austudy or any other government payment during my school years, as my parents earned too much. Prefer not to be eligible anyways.

Oh and someone left a link about studying law by doing it for one year. To be eligible for Diploma Courses, you must have a degree. A diploma course is a post grad course. To be even looked at for such courses as dip. Education or dip. Law you must have some stupidly ridicules high G.P.A which means getting many High Distinctions or a distinction average. However these places are VERY competitive and many people miss out. So to be eligible for a diploma (post grad) place you MUST have graduated with an bachelor (undergrad)

Hope this helps with clarifying

 

[lizzie]

Lizzie, I hope you are right, but when I looked into it for my son (who does earn something like this) I saw all this stuff about assets etc. I found the info really confusing. Now, you have inspired me to look again!

OK, on a quick look I think you have to be 25 plus to qualify. Back again after more looks....

you're thinking of austudy ... i'm talking about the youth allowance for full time students.

try here for info:

http://www.centrelink.gov.au/intern...8546a062df8ec073ca25742f00166cf7!OpenDocument

 

[MarkB]

Wow. So many misunderstandings and error in this thread.

Yes and thanks for correcting something correct with your own misunderstanding.

Oh and someone [Unfortunately for you, I was that "someone".] left a link about studying law by doing it for one year [I never said it was only a year long course]. To be eligible for Diploma Courses, you must have a degree [to be eligible for postgraduate diplima courses, you need an undergraduate degree. This is not a postgraduate diploma course and I never suggested it was]. A diploma course is a post grad course [see previous correction]. To be even looked at for such courses as dip. Education or dip. Law you must have some stupidly ridicules high G.P.A which means getting many High Distinctions or a distinction average [Incorrect re: DipLaw]. However these places are VERY competitive and many people miss out. So to be eligible for a diploma (post grad) place you MUST have graduated with an bachelor (undergrad) [Yes, to be eligible for a postgrad diploma you need an undergrad, but to be eligible for an undergrad diploma - like the DipLaw - you do not]

To repeat my original post (for anyone who knows any budding lawyers who aren't top of their class at school):

Want to be a lawyer, but can't stomach the debt that accompanies an LLB? Study for the Legal Practitioners Admissions Board's Diploma in Law that is taught by the Law Extension Committee at the University of Sydney. The DipLaw has the same standing as an LLB, but assessment is 100% exam based.

The entry requirements for the Dip Law (17 core and 3 elective subjects) can be found on the 8th page (page 6) of
"A Pathway to Legal Practice with the Legal Practitioners Admissions Board".

They include:

[among other things]

- A NSW HSC with a UAI of at least 66 or TER of at least 50 [or a good interstate equivalent], plus an English mark of 70 [ESL] or 60 [standard / advanced].

Hardly an onerous requirement when you consider the UAIs for LLBs and combined law degrees.

On the negative side, I am very reliably informed that the DipLaw examinations are hard (harder than uni LLB exams). But if you're a hard worker you should be ok.

NB - as with when you complete an LLB, to be admitted to practise as a Barrister and / or Solicitor in one of the State / Territory Supreme Courts or the Federal Court or the High Court, you need to complete an additional course of training in the practical aspects of being a legal professional

M

 

[sue78]

Oh and someone left a link about studying law by doing it for one year. To be eligible for Diploma Courses, you must have a degree. A diploma course is a post grad course. To be even looked at for such courses as dip. Education or dip. Law you must have some stupidly ridicules high G.P.A which means getting many High Distinctions or a distinction average. However these places are VERY competitive and many people miss out. So to be eligible for a diploma (post grad) place you MUST have graduated with an bachelor (undergrad)

Hope this helps with clarifying

Maybe for aussies but it's really easy for overseas or full fees paying students to get into. I know a lot of overseas students who cheated their way through uni with passing grades and still did their post grads.

yes ofcourse for grad dip a degree is a pre-requisite. my husband graduated 2nd class honours and didn't have a trouble getting a place in grad dip education. infact, all 2 unis he enquired to accepted him.

 

[skater]

Wow. So many misunderstandings and error in this thread.

I'm a 3rd year full time student whilst whilst working full time. My degree is directly related to my profession.

I wish I could claim my HECS on tax. I can't.

However I claim books, stationary, computer, my new laser printer, internet, parking permit and car. I work shift work so i'm driving straight from uni to work and vice versa.

I'm feeling this is another misunderstanding. Maybe HECS if different to whatever they call it when you are a mature age student (PELS seems to ring a bell).

Several years ago Hubby landed a job as a Facilities Manager. His sole qualification at that stage was as an Electrician. He decided that since it had been a lucky break to be offered this job (paid considerably more than what he had been earning), that he would do something constructive to make sure that he remained at that level or higher. So he studied part-time for several years & got a MBA.

All fees for this we claimed on tax as self education. From memory, if you paid all the fees upfront, it was allowable to claim this as his field of study was directly related to his work situation. It was not possible to accrue a debt & claim it as a deduction.

Check with your accountant.

 

[wish-ga]

Seems the word 'diploma' is causing confusion

A 'diploma' can be used to articulate into a degree.
Do some business subjects to prove you are up to the task of a full degree (not all admissions work on this basis though).

A 'post graduate diploma' is further study after your degree.
Teachers do a DipEd on top of their degree so they can teach.

---------

For someone wanting to study but isn't a school leaver the path could be (but not limited to);
Certificate
Diploma
Degree
Post graduate diploma
Masters
then PhD (easier said than done )

Girl I studied with did a child care diploma at TAFE. Then studied education at uni.
Similarly, you could do a computing/accounting diploma then take on a degree. And uni will probably spot you some credit points. Less subject you have to do. Money in the bank!