Did you find Newborn babies easy?

[sue78]

Skater - I can't take her twins by myself. I don't know what they're like and I don't want to make them even more unsettled. Don't forget I have twins too!! But I do take her DS everyday except when he's at childcare. C'mon, I'm looking after 4 kids by myself already...who's going to help me? but then I honestly don't really need it. Well some days I just can't get on top of everything.

Then when my other sil can't cope and bring her 3y.o daughter over...I have 5 kids under 4 to look after!! I'm serious. I have to feed the twins and whilst they nap I have to organise activities for the older kids...I'm like a childcare centre. But it helps that even when I look after the older ones, I give them reponsibilities, make them pack up toys before getting out new ones, set up activities for them, reading and basically have a bit of structure.

Obsession - yeah my twins are very different. Katie's brilliant but doesn't feed as well as Dayton. But she's getting better now. Dayton had colic between about 3 weeks to 7 weeks but still slept well..just a lot of crying when he was awake but he's brilliant now after we changed to Dr Brown's anti colic bottles (best baby product in the world!). Dayton was also a catnapper for day sleeps so settling can be tiring but I persevered with the patting and shushing so he would get some RSP (deep sleep). Now he's improved loads and can self settle for a full 2.5hr nap. Best part of the day is the mornings when they are all full of smiles and bath time. a well rested baby makes a huge dufference.

another big thing with newborns is that they get overtired easily. 45min sto 1 hr max and back to bed. Even if you miss it by 5 mins, you could have a very hard to settle baby. That's what we found anyway.

 

[sue78]

Do you really want to help?

Keep an entire day clear on a weekend and take all 3 children so she and her hubby can get 7-8 hours unbroken sleep. (I am assuming here the babies are not breast fed.) Enlist MIL if 6 children are too much for you and your hubby. This will also give you an opportunity to try some of your settling techniques and see if any help.

I think that would be a great help for them but I may just die lol 6 kids??! my mil is a slave to my other bil and sil. They have a 3y.o and a 1.5y.o who are lil terrors atm. I honestly cannot cope with 2 sets of newborn twins by myself, especially as hers are very unsettled. My sil feeds her babies to sleep, they often don't finish the bottle coz they fall asleep and don't sleep long often waking up in pain and needing to be burped. But if you try to keep them up to burp them, they become over tired and don't settle at all....it's just a vicious cycle. I don't do that with mine at all...what if they all wake up at the same time? I have no idea how triple and quads mums cope.

oh gosh 3 is enough. I would love more babies but financially not viable now's good..they all havetheir own rooms and they are all going to private schools.

 

[josko]

Hi Sue,

I agree with you on the "lucky" issue and it does irritate me when people say I was "lucky" with my three. I actually resent it, just as I would if people were to say we were lucky to have bought property when we did.

Sue, it is a credit to you that you had your twins in a routine and were able to get them sleeping through the night as you did.

In answer to your question, I didn't find it easy.. the first 12 weeks are also the hardest. Trying to understand your baby and know what it wants is really difficult and there is no book for it. I sympathise with new mothers these days as there are so many conflicting opinions on what to do.

I have had three different babies and I had them all sleeping through the night by no later than 12 weeks. With my most recent, I was getting at least 6 hours sleep by the time he was 6 weeks old.

They have also NEVER had dummies. I can't stand them and feel they are the biggest reason babies that have them will wake up in the night.

In my very strong views on this: Demand feeding is the absolute worst advice given to new mothers.

On that note: My sister-in-law was also told in hospital that there was no need to burp her baby.

I could rave on about the pros and cons and I am sure anyone that firmly believes I am wrong will have all the reasons why. I know of one mother who demand fed and her baby slept through the night by about 4 months old.

Sue:

But their methods can be quite tough like controlled crying and lots of mum can't handle their babie scrying for even 1 minute. LOL as u know, with twins, expect some tears...you simply don't have the hands available all the time. but I'm surprised at how little my twins cry once they got into a routine and now they hardly ever cry.

This is also half the problem and in the next sentence you give the answer.

Routine, routine, and even more routine.

My sister-in-law "lucked" out with her first, but as we both had babies at the same time recently, she has been faring alot better this time around - due to routine and sensible feeding times. My mother-in-law has never bragged and I never compare or comment unless she asks. I have never told her what to do, only what I do.

These WERE some of her excuses:

The baby doesn't like his arms wrapped up.
He is a light sleeper. (Which my third is btw)
He's not getting enough breast milk. Then: He won't drink a full bottle, so he's not full.

If you have a perfectly healthy baby - then there is no reason for it not to sleep. Newborns take a little time as they are adjusting to night and day. I would never feed before three hours. If neccessary, I would walk around the house for over an hour before feeding...I don't know how you would do this with twins though! Put them in their pram?:

I have never had two at the same time, so I could not speak with experience there. I do know that I would stick to the same system where possible.

My third is currrently waking up about three times a night due to that nasty sore throat cold that he had. Last night he woke up at 9pm - I gave him a cuddle and put him back to bed. He then tried crying at 1am...he cried out for about 10 minutes and fell asleep. He tried again at 3am...nope...didn't work that time either. At 5.15am I gave him a bottle and he sleep until 7am.

Tonight, he will try it again, but I know he won't wake up as much. Tomorrow night, he'll probably wake up once? Then back to none. I am so sure of this that I would bet on it.

The other problem is all the damn books out there with conflicting views. Most of the time all it takes is common sense. My sister-in-law got so many different opinons on what to do...I don't think she paid attention on what SHE thought she should do. She is a really good mother and once she started thinking about what SHE should do rather than what everyone else was telling her....things started to work for her.

It looks like you have some great advice on helping out your friend. Personally, I would still drop over meals as I found this the hardest thing to get to with newborns.

I would try and give her a morning to sleep by taking the 3 children for at least half the day. Do it on the weekend and then your hubby can help out. Can they sleep up the other end of the house? Is there a friend that will help for half a day...your Mum? They'll know it is for a good cause?

Congratulaions to you twin mum's and dad's. Twice as much work and trouble! But then twice as much love and reward.

Regards JO

 

[RumpledElf]

I could rave on about the pros and cons and I am sure anyone that firmly believes I am wrong will have all the reasons why. I know of one mother who demand fed and her baby slept through the night by about 4 months old.

Demand fed both of mine. One started sleeping through the night at about that age, the other at about 16 months. My first was a good sleeper without doing anything in particular, the second has always been a horrible sleeper despite trying everything.

Mind you I have two kids who are as polar opposite as it gets. I can't actually take any one aspect of either of them and say they were even vaguely similar. Feeding, sleeping, growth patterns, teething, crawling, walking, talking, all totally and utterly different. They're both human and have 2 arms and 2 legs, then it gets different from there.

Turns out according to Grandma, the little one is basically a clone of my current partner and since I haven't been on speaking terms with the ex for about 10 years and he was never on speaking terms with his mother at all and his father is dead so there's noone to ask, I'd hazard a guess she is like he was as a baby since she's nothing like what I was like. I was more like the younger one - terrible sleeper. If you cross two people who were terrible sleepers, I don't think you're likely to get a good one.

You should quit your job as a property investor and do baby whispering. I would have given anything to get the little one to bed before 2am when she was younger, and I'd give anything to not argue with the big one.

The big one is away for two weeks. Oh, the quietness and silence and bliss .... its heaven. I'm sure I'm not supposed to think that, either.

 

[sue78]

Josko, I agree with you. once in a routine you can stray from it and go back to it..it's quite flexible. Babies are so smart. If my first one woke up crying I'd feed him coz it's rare for him to do that. Maybe he's hungry, growth spurt, who knows...but the next night he woke up at exactly the same time and i knew there was nothing wrong with him but decided to give him just some water...hahaha the night after he got the message and slept through again.

It's good that you sil is doing well. I just think if I left it my sil will be fine. She knows her babies best but my mil did ask me again today!

Josko, I do actually kind of opposite to you, from about 4 weeks+ I would not allow them to go over 3hrs without a feed. Initially, they didn't take much as they weren't hungry but it does take a few days for their body to adjust. They started to sleep longer at night. When they started to take less than 50mls at 3am, I decided to start the resettling process. Took about 3 nights for them to drop the feed. When they started to uss I would pick them up and cuddle them until they stop, then put them back down and pat and shush...it was a success even the first time I did that coz they went back to sleep until 6:30am. If they were really hungry, they would be crying within 1/2hr. It definitely wasn't lucky/fluke.

My twins now have 5 feeds. The last feed is just a very small one to warm them up for bed. they take approx 180 to 250mls per feed and another 100 mls at the last feed. My friend's baby is 2mths older still feeding all night and I asked how much does he take and she said 120mls per bottle on a good day. He's a big baby. There's the answer there to night feeds.

I wouldn't dare say it has to do with common sense thought as you are sometimes so tired as a new mum that all common sense goes out the window!
I am absolutely shattered. Been at home all day and doing the paving in between their naps.

What's the baby whisperer? I've heard of it. A good resoure is the 5 S by Dr Harvey Karp. it does work but only up to maybe 6 weeks old. I think swaddling, shushing, swinging, side/stomach position and sucking from the book 'The Happiest Baby on the Block". Never read the book but watched the you tube videos and it does help for settling.

 

[RumpledElf]

Baby whisperer is pulling from movies like horse whisperer. Just slang for someone who calms babies, in this case.

My twins now have 5 feeds. The last feed is just a very small one to warm them up for bed.

Small feed ... what's that? My first used to eat for 45 minutes per breastfeed and still managed to be a fairly small baby and she's still a slow eating skinny girl. Tall for her age, but you have to buy her jeans two sizes too small and just stitch 6 inches of stuff at the bottom so they fit - its either too short but doesn't fall down or too wide and doesn't stay up.

The other one is a fast eater - max 5 mins per breastfeed usually followed by monster burps - and her evening meal is bigger than what we have. She easily eats twice what the other one does and she's pretty skinny too. She had over a 1/4 of a roast chicken for dinner the other week (PLUS veggies), which is impressive for someone who only weighs 11kg

 

[weg]

I demand fed both of mine when they were weeks to a few months old. The sleeper (my first) filled his belly and demanded far less frequent feeding from the start and could go for very long periods between feeds. Very easy to get into routine.

The second was so fussy that feeding would often be over within 2 or 3 minutes so he rarely had a full belly (physically felt it). Prolonging the feed would only mean even more crying and screaming something he was very very good at . Breaking what appeared to be a cycle was futile and no amount of trying to enforce routine worked.

As for controlled crying I definately think it works and used it myself when they were older and whenever the routine looked to be going out of whack but at 6 weeks .

Many of the babies with no routine are unsettled and cry (or scream like mine)alot of the time. They cry in your arms they cry when they are put down to sleep alone and they cry if you try to settle them. They often settle because they are exausted. So how do you get that message across and how can it be that these mums can't let their babies cry for longer than 1 minute .

Anyway off the subject but my youngest would now have to be one of the most easygoing low maintenance children I know .

 

[willfong]

I gave her a book to read before she gave birth and she never got around to reading it. I read it with my first child and must have re-read it loads again before my twins.

May I ask what the title of that book is? We are expecting our first baby in a couple of months and need all the help we can get.

 

[melinda]

Babies!!

An emotive topic and lots of opinions!!!

having worked as a midwife I have seen them all.

The reality is babies are not all the same. Just as kids and adults are not. Some have an easy temperament others more difficult. What works for one may not work for another. Its worrying that people put pressure on mothers to have the perfect routine, the clean house etc etc. its a set up for problems like post natal depression.

Sue - this thread seems to be more about you wanting people to pat you on the back for being a perfect mother than actually whether or not you want to help your sil. Do you really need to ask people on a property forum about whether or not you should help or advise your sil on raising/settling/getting her babies to sleep/feed or whatever?

Well done if you have 3 perfect infants who are in a great routine. Congratulations. Maybe your challanges will come in a different form or at a different developmental stage.

 

[sue78]

She easily eats twice what the other one does and she's pretty skinny too. She had over a 1/4 of a roast chicken for dinner the other week (PLUS veggies), which is impressive for someone who only weighs 11kg

Eating vegies is impressive. It's painful watching mine eat vegies and he does that gag action after every miniscule bite. Drives me nuts.

 

[Pushka]

PPl told me all the time I was lucky with Josh and eventually I believed them but now hubb yand I strongly believe it's not because of luck coz we managed to do it again except not with1but twins.
!

I agree with most of the others, you have been outstandingly lucky. I was totally out of control (and completely lacking in sleep) with number 1 son as he did not sleep for more than 2 hours at a time. Number 2 son, on the other hand, had read 'the books' and slept really, really well. I did nothing different between the two, one slept, the other didnt.

I read and read and read and tried to find out what I was doing WRONG! But it wasnt me, it was simply my son's temperament. I tried controlled crying at about 8 months; he cried and cried until he was sick (after about 10 minutes). It isnt your sister's fault.

Oh yeah, and EB will be back tomorrow....

 

[sue78]

melinda - i think i have made my fair share contribution to somersoft over the years. as you can see, this is posted in the coffee lounge and yes...it's for posting non property related things.

I thought PND was when mothers can't cope and they don't seek help. Like that mother who killed her b/g twins suffering from pnd and now charged with murder.

Is that what mothers want to hear? oh don't worry I don't get any sleep, I breakdown at least once a day and I'm just really struggling to cope from other mums? well I can't say that coz it would be a lie. It's also depressing.....I had pre natal depression with my first coz I heard so many horror stories and not one good story except 'oh the first smile will make it all worth while' blah blah blah and I was very determined to educate myself about babies, have some sort of plan to follow and just be try to be confident in my abilities.

but ofcourse i totally expected at least one negative post

i'm so knackered, it's 10:30pm and just got back from my sil's. Spent a few hours there helping out so she could sleep and catch up on other things. The babies fed an hour apart which was helpful. The good thing is that it seems like she's started doing feed, play, sleep. They are responding well to it and are more settled. With the patting and shushing (about 5 mins) they are sleeping longer than when they fall alseep in her arms. She didn't get to bath one twin at 6pm coz he fell alseep so when he woke up at 8pm, she asked me to bath first then feed. Problem was that he was starving so was crying throughout bath and screamed the house down whilst getting changed. He fed really well but projectile vomitted, probably from all that crying. Maybe we should have just skipped the bath tonight. It was quite late and cold too. Poor baby.

She also followed Jeff's advice and moved the babies to the room next door and she managed to get a lot more sleep as she wasn't waking from very bit of noise. Babies can be very noisy, lots of grunts and grizzling which never escalate to crying.

They are so adorable though..I just love babies so much.

 

[Pushka]

I thought PND was when mothers can't cope and they don't seek help. Like that mother who killed her b/g twins suffering from pnd and now charged with murder..

I thought of PND too. If she is feeling (or made to feel) that she isnt coping, then that could well being of feelings of depression. Add to that the hormonal changes and there can be real issues. Make sure she has regular health checks.

 

[sue78]

pushka - nothing to do with luck. and I didn't say anything about my sil's fault...don't know where you got that from

sometimes, yes you can get lucky like babies sleep through the night by themselves. Mine didn't do it by themselves, I trained them to sleep through as soon as they were ready. Josh did it at 6/7 weeks and the twins between 8/9 weeks. That's because the twins were 2 weeks premature.It's a fact that at around that age that there's a chemical that can help babies distinguish day and night and night time is for sleeping. It's just that they need to be taught. They are brand new to the world, they need to be taught everything, sometimes even feeding.

seems josko is the only that can understand.

 

[sue78]

I thought of PND too. If she is feeling (or made to feel) that she isnt coping, then that could well being of feelings of depression. Add to that the hormonal changes and there can be real issues. Make sure she has regular health checks.

I think pnd is higher rate when you have a caesar. She had a natural birth. She admitted she's finding it tough and her hubby also admitted that. Ofcourse we understand as we have twins too. She's not ashame of it and not ashame to admit it. Our family is very close and we all have a very close support network of family around us.

It's really hard as we both have a 4y.o. We have to do pick up and drops off at CC, take him to swimming lessons, b'day parties...omigosh it's tough with twins. I was so afraid of going out on my own with 3 kids but was forced too and now I do it all the time.

 

[Pushka]

pushka - nothing to do with luck. and I didn't say anything about my sil's fault...don't know where you got that from
.

So if it isnt about luck, then the assumption is that your SIL is doing something wrong (just as you say you are doing something right), which by implication makes it her fault, doesnt it!

It is about luck, it is about the temperament of the child. And if you are 'lucky' you have a child that can mould to your routine. If you are 'unlucky' you have a child who doesnt.

I think pnd is higher rate when you have a caesar. She had a natural birth.

Have never heard that theory at all. Actually, have never even heard it raised as an issue.

 

[sue78]

Have never heard that theory at all. Actually, have never even heard it raised as an issue.

really? maybe u should look it up. it's because the chemicals are all released through a natura birth.

I think you are wrong. If she isn't coping then should she just put up with it or find better solutions? it's not her fault.

I don't agree with you either...whatever temperament you child is...every child still needs to eat and sleep and these are skills that may come naturally to some babies and may need to be taught to others. A baby that sleep at 1 hour intervals and a baby that sleeps 12 hours straight will still sleep close to the same total hours in a 24hr period. It's not about moulding a child into your routine, it's about finding a routine for each individual child. I have never had a lucky baby. All my babies had reflux/colic up till about 6 weeks old and my first projectiled vomit every feed until about 8mths old.

If anyone asks for advice I always tell my hubby to talk to them coz ppl can be so judgemental on mothers but find it so interesting when it's coming from the father eventhough it's the same thing. My husband is way more straight forward than I am.

 

[rugrat]

really? maybe u should look it up. it's because the chemicals are all released through a natura birth.

I think you are wrong. If she isn't coping then should she just put up with it or find better solutions? it's not her fault.

I don't agree with you either...whatever temperament you child is...every child still needs to eat and sleep and these are skills that may come naturally to some babies and may need to be taught to others. A baby that sleep at 1 hour intervals and a baby that sleeps 12 hours straight will still sleep close to the same total hours in a 24hr period. It's not about moulding a child into your routine, it's about finding a routine for each individual child. I have never had a lucky baby. All my babies had reflux/colic up till about 6 weeks old and my first projectiled vomit every feed until about 8mths old.

If anyone asks for advice I always tell my hubby to talk to them coz ppl can be so judgemental on mothers but find it so interesting when it's coming from the father eventhough it's the same thing. My husband is way more straight forward than I am.

Horses for courses. What works for one child may not work for another. My DD and DS are and always have been like day and night. CC worked for DD, my DS on the otherhand still has problems sleeping through the night (he is 21months old). DD had severe reflux until 9months and if she was awake she was screaming constantly; my DS NEVER cried (I kid you not, he first cried when he was 6months old). I could go on and on about how one technique worked for one cild but not the other - it is still the case. I just hope my next (due in 3 weeks is like my DS (because I am not sure if I could cope with another like my DD).

I really don't think you have a very good understanding of PND either, Sue. It can affect anyone, and can range greatly in severity and how it is expressed. the cases you hear about in the news are very much in the minority and involve extreme PND and pyschosis. Most people would be unable to pick a PND sufferer unless they were specificallly told. The worst thing is that most sufferers will not tell anyone how they are feeling or not let on to the extent of what they are feeling.

There are risk indicators, however, no-one is 'safe' from this. My sister had a natural birth, she breastfed her baby, bonded with him and yet she still devoloped PND. Her baby was a VERY easy baby, she will tell you that! PND is usually caused by a chemical or hormonal imbalance.

I am not trying to take away from you - I have no doubt you are a great parent. But like anything in life, different people cope differently under pressure - and when it comes to being parents I don't think we can compare...well anything. There are just two many variables.

 

[weg]

I covered the subject of PPD as an elective many years ago and spent a bit of time in a special unit for mothers with depression after childbirth.

I thought I'd mention here that depression can strike mothers with all types of infants including those that sleep and feed well. I am not talking about mothers with psychosis btw.

Self esteem and confidence is one of the biggest issues following birth. Lack of sleep is another.The last thing your SIL needs is to feel that it may be her fault. You feel that this is so so maybe she's picked up on this and is starting to think this also especially as your twins have been so well managed. When you're worn out you start believing anything.

If you really want to help her concentrate also on the non physical help like giving praise. Why not tell her she's doing a great job . She sound like she's not only doing her best but the children are well cared for and thriving. That's all that should matter.

In regards to caesars I think if a mother is disappointed and feels she has somehow failed or the birth went wrong resulting in one then she may be more prone to depression as with anything that doesn't go as planned.

 

[skater]

A baby that sleep at 1 hour intervals and a baby that sleeps 12 hours straight will still sleep close to the same total hours in a 24hr period.

Sorry Sue, but that is another point that I do not agree on. One of mine slept constantly. The other was constantly awake. There is no way they both got the same total hours in any 24 hour period.

The same as adults have different sleep patterns, temperaments and personalities, babies do too.